Jim Chanos and Pierre Rochard face off on Bitcoin-native corporates, debating governance, valuation models, capital structure, and whether BTC on the balance sheet adds value or risk.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN:

00:00 - Intro 

02:27 - Why Jim Chanos is short BTC companies but long Bitcoin itself

05:44 - Pierre Rochard's view on using corporate debt/equity to acquire BTC

13:03 - Capital structure tools best suited for BTC-native companies

14:12 - Whether BTC treasuries offer more than just bull-market beta

19:23 - The risks of NAV premiums and misaligned management incentives

20:16 - Debate over proper valuation frameworks: NAV vs. cash flow

24:30 - Could BTC treasuries evolve into financial infrastructure—or stay niche?

26:25 - The systemic implications of too many firms holding BTC on balance sheets

36:22 - 2030 predictions: spot BTC vs. BTC-native equities vs. ETFs

40:17 - What a “responsible” BTC treasury strategy could look like

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

• Jim’s X Account.
• Pierre’s X Account.
• Related Episode: Bitcoin Energy Survey and the Speculative Attack w/ Pierre Rochard.
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