We reveal the secrets behind how we are able to be so productive in our work, creative projects, parenting, health and more as a couple that collaborates closely together. We explain our philosophies and tactics around ambition, laziness, scheduling, office workflows, life hacking through our marriage partnership, outsourcing, and more.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] And we feel a lot of shame in where we are. Like we're able to enjoy the moment, but we're always like, we're this is not enough, could be doing better. This is not to be. And to have a mindset where you are constantly saying, how can I do better? A lot of people would say that that's toxic and it's bad for your mental health.

Whereas we've actually found that it's great and it contributes significantly to our productiveness, because when people instead are saying, I am enough, it's just enough, that's always an excuse to do less and

Malcolm Collins: not more. Well, I mean, I really genuinely think the world, I mean, more than that, I genuinely believe the world is sort of beginning to collapse around us.

We are heading towards an incredibly dark time as a civilization and that. Most people with agency or the intelligence to fix this are not moving towards fixing it. There is a small group of people who are but what that basically means is that to a large extent, the future of our children and our descendants depends on our ability to set up any.

Sort of viable future for our species like our personal ability to do that Well,

Would you like to [00:01:00] know more?

Simone Collins: One of the things that causes me the most anxiety and you see this all the time is when we drive by a giant office building and it's just packed with people. And I cannot for the life of me, imagine what all these people are doing and businesses are starting to wake up to this.

And just firing huge swaths of their employees because they realize, Oh my gosh, we don't need them because they're not really doing anything. And we've met people too, who are like, yeah, I don't do anything in my job. Like

Malcolm Collins: to, to, to pull on what she's saying here, when she looks at like a giant office building, she's like.

Almost any company in the world can be run by like a hundred people. So why is there a building with thousands of people? You know, honestly, I think most companies in the world can easily be run by a team of 30 to 40 people. With the

Simone Collins: exception of like, imagine, you know, hospitals, those that, you know, that in person staff you need to have, you know.

Oh no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no. So this is different. She's talking about office buildings. You

Simone Collins: know, this, this is different from like Amazon buildings, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think the thing is that [00:02:00] a philosophy we have, a realization we've made is that the vast majority of people, and this is both from seeing how organizations are run, but also just observing our friends, our family, colleagues, et cetera, do extremely little.

And then we know a couple, like a handful of people who are very similar to us who are just insanely productive. But

Malcolm Collins: let's go on this. So, so, and this is a, an episode that we are doing right before we're going to be in front of 4 million New Zealanders on, on their, one of their major TV shows. So we are...

Exercising time management right now, because we had to set up all this equipment anyway. But, it was a topic that was spurred to us by an audience member. Who was like, how do you guys have time to like, watch anime and as another recent video did, like, read up on random fictional lore and, All of that, while also staying as educated as you are, and raising as many kids as you're raising, and running a [00:03:00] company, oh, and starting that school, oh, and you do a podcast daily.

I am surprised by us not getting more compliments for that. Can even, I am a little impressed that we do 30 to 45 minutes every weekday, and we keep things Pretty fresh. I mean, there's other YouTubers out there who you know, they'll do the same topics again and again and again, which is fairly easy to do.

Whereas I really try to make an effort to never tread the exact same ground twice, but to have a few like themes that we're on the skirts of. But how, how do we do this? Right? Like this is actually, I think an interesting question. There's a few ways that we do it, right. And I'm going to go through them.

The first is just be incredibly intentional about how you are structuring your time. Here is an example. We have published five books. After we published the first book, all the other books we published in pairs of two, where we would publish two books at a time. A lot of people can say, [00:04:00] why would you do that?

Why are you publishing two books at a time? And the answer is. It's because it saves a lot of time to do. It allows us to go out there and do the editing process for both books at the same time while also saving money because we're buying a bulk discount on editing, on cover design, on You know, ad campaigns on promotion tours and it, it allows us to, at every year, create two of what I consider really high quality books.

Now, we stopped making books in favor of the podcast for a while. We might go back to books eventually, but that's... Another thing was the books that has been incredibly helpful is we could choose to do the vein thing, which is go, go through traditional publisher, but that.

Adds a whole bunch of steps, which can add like literally a year to the publication timeline, you know, of finding a, uh, what's the word, a publicist then

Simone Collins: having the publicist. Going through the traditional bureaucratic process. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: [00:05:00] And, and people are like, why wouldn't you do that? Well, one, we can sell the books for cheaper if we don't do that.

Two, we can have all the money go to our, our nonprofit foundation. And three, it's much, much faster if what we are aiming for is reach and not personal vanity. So, and that's how we top the Wall Street Journal bestseller list was one of our books this year. Well, the nonfiction bestseller list. A topic that Simone does not think is that important to it, but I actually think is, is very important.

No, I agree

Simone Collins: it's important. I agree. But we were both very productive before this happened. Is,

Malcolm Collins: marriage. Marriage dramatically, dramatically increases the amount of free time an individual.

Simone Collins: If, if you work together. And here's the thing, I think many people, Even some of the most productive people in the entire world believe that relationships and marriage are actually a net drain on time.

There are, there are very productive people who are like, Oh, you know, like it's hard for marriages cause then I have to take time to pay attention to them and take them out to dinner and, you know, you know, listen to them [00:06:00] talk. And that is. is I think what most people think about when they think about marriage and that is not what we're talking about.

We do not do that at all in our marriage. There is no, Oh, we had to take time just for our relationship. Oh, Malcolm has to take time just to listen to me complain about things. That is no, we only talk about work. We only work together. So I think, you know, we can't define marriage as a traditional modern person's marriage, but More of the traditional concept of what marriage was to begin with, which is a partnership in which the couple works together toward a common aim,

Malcolm Collins: right?

Right, but I'd say, like, just simple things that you may not be fully realizing how much time it's taking up. Dating. Friendship. Yeah. Oh, somebody's like, what do you mean friendship? Yeah, you don't need friends when you're married. It's f*****g awesome. Like, we have friends where we need them, like utility friendships that help move our goals for civilization and our kids forwards.

But in terms of, like, personal indulgence friends that I have just so I'm not lonely they become [00:07:00] dramatically less. Useful when you have a mentally stimulating partner that you're having. Like I know all of the most mentally stimulating conversations I'm gonna have over any course of time are almost always going to be with my own wife.

Aw. You know? And that being the case, and I don't need to go out and source that anymore, which removes one of the primary reasons I would've historically socialized.

Simone Collins: You're also really lucky in that your brother is one of the most intellectually incredible people we've ever met and like, you know, conversations with him are amazing too.

Malcolm Collins: Well, but, but hold on, we're going to talk about my brother in just a second, because I think there's another thing we can take away from that. Oh, interesting. But also it takes away the need for sex with strangers. You don't need to, like, this is such a time sink if you're a young guy. Sourcing sex, all of that, it's this huge, huge waste of time.

And you don't really realize how much time you've wasted on it until you've freed

Simone Collins: yourself from it. Even if you're paying for it. So I don't even think like the MGTOW, I'll just pay for sex when I need it solution. Is that easy? Because you still have to source it. You have to vet it. You have to book the [00:08:00] time.

You have to go and meet them somewhere. Ugh. When, if you're

Malcolm Collins: not doing that, I mean, think about all the ancillary things tied to those pursuits, like working out more than you actually need to, to achieve your goals, you know, stuff like that, like indolent waste of time that end up being utilized for this, but that then can end up or, or hobbies that you pursue.

Like, I remember I wanted to learn music at one point because I thought it would get me laid. Oh, for chicks. How many people learn something like learn a skill just. To get laid right a lot like so it's so it's sex isn't just a time waste in and of itself Like once, you know, you no longer need to pursue that you get all of this time freed up But something I wanted to Pull on with my brother,

Simone Collins: can I, can I add one point about marriage?

That's really important is it it minimizes dependence on bureaucracy to a great extent and this could also work if you for example work with family but I think in by bureaucracy, I mean a lot of the office [00:09:00] theater and Meetings and coordination and communication that has to take place when you're working with a team of people are working within a larger like churning machine like when you work within a company, then everyone has to meet to get on the same page and everyone has to, you know, socialize ideas and, and because we work together and we are ideologically aligned, you don't have to invest time in making sure that I'm on board or making sure that I feel, You know, like we're aligned or, or, you know, socializing ideas with me or anything like that.

It's just very, very efficient. Both of us are on the same page from the get go. And I can't emphasize how much time that saves as well.

 Burdened with new friends and tormented by the bounty hunter chains,,

Malcolm Collins: so, speaking of my brother, because this is really interesting, I think people could see us and be like you guys are holistically unique in how productive you are able to be, but still consume as much pop media as you do.

Oh, contraire. Oh, contraire, yeah. Simone, like, what is my brother's, like, number one character [00:10:00] trait? ,

Simone Collins: he's like a dictionary for quotes and references and like constantly making them and I absolutely love

Malcolm Collins: it. Yeah, I just had lunch with him today and he added in a an int quote that I didn't even know.

And he gave me this look. It was something like with the trees we're talking about. Not too tasty. Yeah, he's like, I don't read books because, you know, I read very slowly. So I only read when somebody has something to say. And then he related it to this end quote and I didn't know what he was talking about.

And I got a mean scowl from him. How do you not know you're talking quotes, you know, off the top of your head? Which I loved, but what it showed to me and what it reminded me is that. There are people who are even more productive than us, potentially, and know even more random pop culture

Simone Collins: than us.

And Malcolm is saying this because Malcolm's brother and his wife are a power couple that works together, that coordinates incredibly closely, and that achieves insane amounts of things. So we are not an isolated case. They actually met [00:11:00] before we did. They met in college. Yeah. Yeah. Well done, Malcolm.

And I, yeah, I, I think it cannot be understated just how powerful this has been in both our success and their success.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, and so now I'm going to give you the biggest secret of all of the secrets. Okay. Hmm. So first I'll tell you what it's definitely not. It's not scheduling. Scheduling is useful.

So if you look at my wife's schedule, which I'm going to post on the screen here for one random week. I

Simone Collins: need to approve that first.

Cause

Malcolm Collins: I need to approve it. But she literally schedules every single minute of her time. Every minute it is wild, but I would say I'm almost as efficient as you and I schedule almost nothing.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: so schedules are only helpful for those who want to have a schedule and they are not at all correlated with actual productivity. I know people who are very close to me who scheduled just as much as I do and they get nothing done. So. [00:12:00] There you go.

Malcolm Collins: So, let's talk about the actual key to all of this.

And it is that you will get done the work that you have set out for yourself. It is just that simple.

Simone Collins: Yes, yes.

Malcolm Collins: If you take on a lot of work and you believe you can do it, So long as you are gradually increasing the amount of work that you're taking on you will find a way to complete

Simone Collins: it all right. And this was inspired to a great extent by the research that found that when you give people a certain number of weeks, get 2 weeks or 12 weeks for a discrete task.

People will take exactly the number of weeks allotted. So based on that, our theory was, okay, then we're going to keep taking things on and keep fitting stuff in until literally we can no longer continue to complete things. Because once we've reached that level that we know we're actually at capacity.

Whenever I

Malcolm Collins: have a free morning, like if I ever have an actual free morning. I then say, okay, time to start a new major project. Yeah. And you're always [00:13:00] going to get free mornings. You see, this is the key thing with any project, whether it's building out the school or the, these podcast recordings or something like that.

You know, there's always periods of waits. There was always periods of, okay, I have given this task to somebody else and I'm waiting for it to come back to me. And these periods are when you get the time to begin to overlap these projects with each other. To get an enormous amount of productivity out of the way.

And here I, I, I will give the two, one of the biggest productivity gains you're going to likely have in terms of its intention. And one of the biggest productivity losses you're likely going to have the biggest, or one of the biggest productivity gains an individual can have, and one of the biggest virtues an individual can have in terms of productivity is laziness.

If you are, I call it ambitious laziness.

Simone Collins: And this is not how I work, by the way. This is just one, one way to insane productivity.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. It's my strategy for insane

Simone Collins: productivity. Which we've seen this in other employees in a way that's [00:14:00] extremely impressive.

Malcolm Collins: So I always look for, well, you can describe it in me.

You probably can describe it better than I

Simone Collins: can. Well, it's I, when I describe this in people, I use the virtue coined by the church of the subgenius referred to as a slack

which basically means like achieving a lot with, without doing pretty much anything. So like the more slack you have, the more you're getting done without any effort.

And the, the key to this that, that I've observed as a not lazy person to a fault. Is that lazy people who are also very clever will find ways to make all of their action more efficient and more efficacious to avoid more work. So, for example, we hired 1 person who was. Who, who preferred to be lazy in our business and this actually caused some trouble because he would get all his work done so quickly and we gave him more work than anyone else in our business.

I'm not kidding you. Then at the end of the day, he'd come up to our office and he'd be like, Hey, can I play video games for the rest of the day? And we'd be like, yeah, sure. [00:15:00] And then like, you know, other people in the office would come to us and be like, Hey, so and so's playing video games. That's not okay.

And we're like, actually, he just completed like five times as much work as you did. So he's totally fine in doing that and get back to work. And that's the, that's the thing is he found ways to automate his work. He found ways to scale his work. He found ways to, every time we gave him more, he found ways to eliminate it and get more free

Malcolm Collins: time, give him some big amount of work and then he'd build a program to automate it.

Or you give me some amount of work and I outsource it on Upwork, you know, I'm like, f**k it, I can outsource this, you know, I know how much, and, and, and. There's always a path to do this typically, but it requires a level of self agency combined with this laziness. A. I don't want to do this, and I believe I can figure out how to get something to do this for me for an extremely low cost.

Whether it's somebody in a developing country or a, a, a, program that I created. And so this is, this is this form of, of work that allows for [00:16:00] incredible productivity. Now with my wife, she does a completely different form of work that leads to enormous productivity. This form of work is to just literally never take breaks.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just brute force everything. So,

Malcolm Collins: so when I say never take breaks, If you are somebody like my wife, this may seem unremarkable, but she is able to literally work from, you know, when she starts working, like 9am until the end of the

Simone Collins: day. Come on,

Malcolm Collins: 5. you wake up at 5. 30am, yeah, and then we take the break to do the kids.

So 5. 30am to 5. 30pm, right? So that's when she's working between. And literally... Not take a single self indulgent break. Not stop to browse the internet. Not stop to watch something as a little reward to herself. I cannot do that. And most people I know cannot do that. Not easily. I mean, I'm sure I could if I really pushed myself to, but it's just...

My sin, right? I [00:17:00] don't

Simone Collins: do that. It's just how you work. And I work differently. And that's the

Malcolm Collins: best. But it allows for enormous brute force productivity. But what's really interesting is the types of jobs that most of us are good at have very little overlap because of these two styles

Simone Collins: of work. Yeah. He's good at clever work and I'm good at dumb work.

Which is very convenient because every, every business, every individual has to do a mixture of dumb and clever work. But because we work together as a couple, he does all the clever work and I do all the dumb work and we both get it all done.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. So anyway hold on. I, I, I where was I going?

Oh, yes. But then there's another thing that can really eat at a person's, oh, I was saying the positive and the negative thing. So the positive thing is laziness. The negative thing is socialization. Friendliness. Nothing destroys our work schedule like an event.

Simone Collins: Ugh, or yeah, travel or events, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know, us having to do a party, us having to do a anything like that really slows us [00:18:00] down.

The extent to which you are losing productive hours through interaction with other humans almost cannot be

Simone Collins: overstated. Because it's not just the the event itself. It's getting there. It's getting back. It's coordinating with everyone. It's the, it's the choices. It's the follow up. It's yeah, there's so much that goes into

it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and it's you getting fried. So you know, if you go out to a party one night. At least if you're like us, you're likely to be unproductive the next day. And one of the ways that we are able to be as productive as we are able to be is because we really, really focus on understanding our bodies and our brains, and we build work schedules that work for them.

Simone Collins: For example, you wake up every morning at 2. 30 a. m. or 2 a. m., and then you work until maybe 5 or 6 a. m., take a very short nap before we get our kids up, and then, you know, take your second work session. And that enables you to spend a huge chunk of your working day working during a time when nobody. In our general work time [00:19:00] zone is going to be bothering you and it's absolutely brilliant, but most people don't work that way, even though they probably work really well that way, because they just wouldn't ever think to wake up

Malcolm Collins: at 2am and start working.

No and, but I know I work better at that time. And so I work my schedule around working at that time,

Simone Collins: but I work from a treadmill desk because I cannot. I cannot focus if I'm sitting down, like I'm having an anxiety attack by sitting down every time we do this podcast.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, it's like, if I go out to a, well, and this is an important thing with my wife, so like staying fit and working, she literally works from a treadmill desk or from a, an elliptical desk, which is what she used to work at.

And so how many hours a day would you say you're working out on average?

Simone Collins: Give an

Malcolm Collins: average. Five hours. So about five hours a day, and that is not an exaggeration at all. So, not only is she working, but she is also exercising about five hours a day, and this is how you can overlap things.

So when people say, how do you watch so much, like, anime and stuff like that, It is because [00:20:00] I have that on in the background while I am doing productive things that are mindless, like spreadsheet tasks, like some sorts of email tasks. That is how I, I watch so much is because I overlap that and I also always overlap on my entertainment.

So I never play a video game without a show on in the background. I have a few hours a day that I set aside for pure recreation every day. You

Simone Collins: like make it maximum recreation, maximum recreation. I am drinking something every orifice.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and I have my kids typically playing with me during those

Simone Collins: climbing all over you too.

It's like everything. It's everything at once. But I really, I really think that there's something to be said for that. One of the reasons indeed why we are so productive is because we double things up all the time. For example, every business trip is a, Is another honeymoon, you know, like every, every, you know, family time is, is a billion other things.

Like whenever I'm with the kids, I'm constantly cleaning. So the house is getting cleaner and I'm spending time with the kids and the kids are learning really [00:21:00] valuable skills about house cleaning and discipline. And you know, when I'm, when I'm working, I'm also exercising and, and most people seem to just set aside very separate times for all that.

Like this is when I'm doing my relationship and romantic time. This is what I'm doing my kid time. This is what I'm doing my exercise time. And they like go to a gym, I think another really big portion of our life. And this is a product of privilege for sure. Not everyone is able to do this, but the fact that we do not commute and we also travel very little is a really, really big deal.

In that we. We, we don't have to commute to an office. We thankfully don't have to travel a lot for our

Malcolm Collins: kids now, which is something we're trying to wipe off our, basically

Simone Collins: like anything that has us traveling, like wasting time in a car, which also, I mean, every time you get in a car, you are putting your life at risk.

You know, like everyone gets worried about airplanes and other nonsense when like the top thing that they're doing every day that could kill them is getting in a car. And we also, even with grocery stop shopping. We, we go to a big box grocery store, we buy giant amounts of things and then we don't need to go that frequently to

Malcolm Collins: a grocery store to eat.

[00:22:00] Well, rummaging is also a major problem for people. And this is something that I talk about where it's when somebody is doing something, the classic rummaging behavior I would say is once we asked my dad, like, what are you doing right now? And he goes,

I'm unpacking and repacking the bags.

Malcolm Collins: get the bags a little bit more tight.

This is just completely indolent activities. Yeah. And it is so easy

Simone Collins: to lose. People. Yeah. You can spend an entire day rummaging where you're just like shuffling things around or, you know, it takes you like three hours to get showered and drink your coffee. Like, and we know there are plenty of people in our lives who like spend hours doing stuff that should only take you five to 10 minutes.

So there, I think that's the really interesting thing is, you know, people like to virtue signal about being really busy, especially in the United States. Like I'm so stressed. I'm so busy. Oh my gosh, there's so much going on. You can be. Busy to the nines and stressed to the nines and get absolutely nothing meaningful done.

And I really hate when [00:23:00] people try to virtue signal their stress or busyness, because that just to me signals poor time management to me. That's that's someone saying I'm incompetent. And I'm virtue signaling. And those are two things that I just absolutely can't stand. And this is

Malcolm Collins: something with, with office life, right?

When I used to work in an office, those are the least productive years of my life. Cause I could get almost nothing done. I really just sat in the office and listened, listened to lectures on and then did all your work at home, right? Yeah. I can't work when I feel like there's somebody like looking over my back, like interrupting you or interrupting me.

It feels like I'm in like a. threatening environment, right? You know, and I imagine, and this is where I coined the term office theater, which is actually a term that we made up that is now taught at Stanford business school which is fantastic which basically is this whole category of things that people do to look like they're working that don't actually produce any productivity but that are important to some.

fragile minded managers, you go and some individuals they [00:24:00] go and they're like, well, if I'm doing these things, if I'm showing up early, if I'm staying late, if I'm looking busy all day, then I am working and I should be promoted.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like Japanese culture, I think is the epitome of office theater. And that like, you know, you have to go out drinking, you have to leave after your boss, you have to arrive before your boss, all these sorts of crazy things that are really just for like.

Virtue signaling status hierarchies, but we really have gotten the, so a couple of things, one when we first acquired our business, our investors were really insistent about all this weird office theater stuff. Like, you need to have these offices and do this stuff with the offices and all this stuff in person.

Finally, the pandemic comes. We, we drop our offices immediately because we're not idiots and productivity skyrockets. And that was finally like that, that it took a literal pandemic, the world was falling apart for us to have a chance to even make a pitch to our investors that offices are not an efficient thing from a money standpoint or from a human capital standpoint.

And the, we, we also point out that like basically. Remote work and, and self [00:25:00] directed work only works for a players. If you're a BRC player, like, you know, you're, you're not going to have really good employees. So I understand if you have really mediocre employees, you kind of need to crack a whip, but why hire mediocre employees when you not have AI?

Well, and there's

Malcolm Collins: other types of systems you can use to oversee really employees, like redundancy and emails, like one of every 10 emails gets read by another employee and they get punished for this really employees. It's about the oversight. It's not about being in an office and there are cheaper ways to enact oversight than an office itself.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: However, I mean, as, as some studies have shown when you do have sort of a controlled natural trial of people working from home versus people working in the office at the same business. Those who are in the office advance more and that's because they're spending, well, really wasting more time and company money schmoozing.

Well, office

Malcolm Collins: theater works, right? It works in moving you up within a company, but it is not useful to the company itself. Exactly. And, you know, hopefully we can get better through AI and stuff like that is recognizing individuals that are rising through the ranks through office theater versus [00:26:00] individuals who are productive and have high leadership capacity, which I think has very little overlap.

You know, these are usually the entrepreneurial individuals who are looking to, you know, leave the company and, and, and do whatever, right. It's. A lot of but this, this talk has been fantastic and as a very good use of time, we're going to wrap up a little early here, unless you had any final thoughts.

Simone Collins: Let's see any, any final tactical tips that you have, just like rapid fire. Well, I

Malcolm Collins: mean, focus on doing different types of work at different stages of your life. When you are young, you are going to be at a stage of your life where you're doing a lot of rote work, like office work, manual labor, stuff like that.

Use that time to listen to lectures upon lectures upon lectures. Yes. On like Wonderium or something like that. That is when I did that. Another thing is, while there are many things that I think it's worth it to outsource, the one thing that I think a man should never really outsource is manual labor around the house.

I think performing a certain amount of manual labor every week whether it's, you know, whatever, whatever it is, [00:27:00] mowing the lawn, cutting, gardening, stuff like this I think is really important just for sort of mental health.

Simone Collins: Especially if you also, if you have kids, your kids need to see that their parents do that because otherwise they're going to be like, that's a task for other people.

And they're not going to like, they're going to see themselves as above it, which is

Malcolm Collins: really toxic. Yeah, we believe we have a belief in terms of fixing things in our house where we hire somebody to fix something once, but I have watched them fix it. So I understand how they fix it so that I can fix it again.

And, and that has saved us so much money. Just that policy of data has to sit and watch whoever the repairman is and have them explain to me how they fix it. Because usually with this stuff, it's not that hard, and then you learn the skill, and then you move forward. Anyway, love you to death Simone.

I love you. You were gonna say something, what were they?

Simone Collins: Well, I would say it's, it's also really like people say that it's really toxic, that it's, you're just enough or like you should be satisfied with where you are. And I think that one thing that does [00:28:00] make us really productive is we are deeply uncomfortable with where we are and that we always feel like we're behind.

And we feel a lot of shame in where we are. Like we're able to enjoy the moment, but we're always like, we're this is not enough, could be doing better. This is not to be. And to have a mindset where you are constantly saying, how can I do better? A lot of people would say that that's toxic and it's bad for your mental health.

Whereas we've actually found that it's great and it contributes significantly to our productiveness, because when people instead are saying, I am enough, it's just enough, that's always an excuse to do less and

Malcolm Collins: not more. Well, I mean, I really genuinely think the world, I mean, more than that, I genuinely believe the world is sort of beginning to collapse around us.

We are heading towards an incredibly dark time as a civilization and that. Most people with agency or the intelligence to fix this are not moving towards fixing it. There is a small group of people who are but what that basically means is that to a large extent, the future of our children and our descendants depends on our ability to set up any.

Sort of [00:29:00] viable future for our species like our personal ability to do that Well,

Simone Collins: and the future depends on those for whom the world is not good enough and for whom the like their identities themselves They're not good enough and you know, if you can choose to not matter and that's fine We're not asking everyone to matter But we just believe that the future is going to be built by those who are dissatisfied and who choose to change the world as a result

Malcolm Collins: All right.

This has been fantastic. We got to hop on that New Zealand interview. Love you, gorgeous.

Love you too.

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