Self-driving cars are here. But what kind of future will they bring: safe roads and extra time or dystopian traffic jams? My guest this week is Andrew Miller, who writes about self-driving cars and transportation policy. I love the open road, so I press him on what’s lost when we give away driving to the robots. 0:00 - Intro 01:27 - The sales pitch for Waymo, Tesla, and Zoox  12:24 - How autonomous are autonomous cars?  20:14 - Liability: Who is responsible for an accident? 31:56 - Political obstacles: Spying, data, labor 38:53 - 20:35: The good and bad scenarios 48:25 - Are we losing the “romance of the road”? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.