In this Institute of Economic Affairs podcast, IEA Communications Director Callum Price interviews Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy Group and prolific commentator on economics and society. The conversation explores how markets function as discovery mechanisms, with Sutherland arguing that capitalism's greatest strength lies not in efficiency but in its ability to uncover valuable innovations that couldn't be predicted in advance - from his own unexpected TikTok success to products like Red Bull that would never have survived central planning. They discuss how businesses can create value by triangulating the interests of customers, employees, investors, and society, with examples from companies like Dyson and Costco that demonstrate the commercial benefits of exceptional customer service. Sutherland examines the housing market as a complex system with multiple contributing factors, from planning restrictions to psychological behaviors around property purchasing. He analyses how technological advancement has made consumer goods dramatically more affordable while housing costs have risen, creating new economic dynamics where wealth increasingly flows toward property ownership. The discussion covers innovative policy solutions including Japanese-style planning reform, land value capture to fund infrastructure, and flexible working arrangements that could help people escape geographic constraints on housing costs. The conversation addresses broader institutional challenges including the bureaucratisation of decision-making, the balance between process fairness and practical outcomes, and the importance of preserving space for human judgment and humour in increasingly regulated environments. Sutherland advocates for localised governance, innovation prizes for practical problem-solving, and policies that recognise different forms of value creation. Throughout, he maintains his characteristic blend of advertising industry insights, behavioural economics, and pragmatic policy thinking, offering constructive approaches to complex economic and social challenges while celebrating entrepreneurial innovation and market-driven solutions. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit insider.iea.org.uk/subscribe