This episode contains strong language.

In many instances while advising the Trump administration on the pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci was faced with a “difficult” situation. Yet he said he had never considered quitting.

What was it like working under President Donald J. Trump? We listen in on a candid conversation between Dr. Fauci and Donald G. McNeil Jr., the Times science and health reporter.

Guest: Donald G. McNeil Jr., a science and health reporter for The New York Times. 

For an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. You can read the latest edition here.

Background reading: 

• From denialism to death threats, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci described to Donald G. McNeil Jr. a fraught year as an adviser to President Donald J. Trump on the pandemic.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily 

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.