Malcolm and Simone analyze the symbolism in Disney's "Turning Red," where a girl turns into a red panda when she feels sexual urges during puberty. They argue the movie sends toxic messages like embracing sexuality too young, selling sexualized photos of yourself, and lying to parents. It could even be seen as promoting OnlyFans or sex work to minors. They compare to positive coming-of-age stories that handle themes of adolescence better.

Some key points:

* Panda is clearly meant to symbolize emerging sexuality

* Sells panda pics to afford concert tickets

* Lies to parents under guise of "mathletes club"

* Ultimately rejects family wisdom on sexuality

* Poor messages for girls on deceit, self-objectification

* Better coming-of-age films handle themes with more care

* Did creators consider implications of plot points?

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] It is not vague that this movie is about her sexuality and the panda represents her sexuality. So a lot of people got that.

And they, they ended, how controversial the movie was at that. If that's what the movie was about, I would think it was a wholesome, good message. . And in one of the core things in the movie is she is breaking from that because she is accepting her sexuality at the end of the movie . She decides to not seal away her panda. She thinks that she needs to embrace her panda and make it a part of her.

Everyday life. And this is to represent the traditional Chinese culture's rejection of sexuality and her embracing of sexuality. The core conflict of the plot is she wants to go see this boy band with her friends.

But, she cannot afford to see this boy band with her

Simone Collins: friends.

Malcolm Collins: , so her friends get together and they advertise her panda to her panda to all the other young kids in the [00:01:00] school and the young kids pay to interact with her panda

Only came to win the game, can't,

Malcolm Collins: but.

It's not that she has no scruples at all, there is one boy who is a dick, and she doesn't like this boy, . And so they have this boy pay an exorbitant amount to have the Panda be the main attractor at a party that he is hosting. . So it's saying one. Use this new sexuality you have found to pay for your lifestyle, IG only fans or whatever these days. Yes! Yes! If somebody is a jerk Restrict their access,

but if they are paying a ton, yeah. Ah, that's where you really need to go all out with the panda

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. So we are going to do an interesting video today because I really liked our Barbie video. Anyone who hasn't seen our video of Barbie being the most based movie ever made? [00:02:00] I genuinely believe that. It is an incredible movie. An insanely based movie. Like the point that Ken learned specifically, like, and I think it was an intentionally based movie, that Ken specifically learned about the patriarchy from a high school bookstore.

They could have made it anything. They could have made it a regular bookstore. They could have made it TV. They chose to make it like what a conservative conspiracy theorist would make it. Like, why did they do that? But watch that if you want to see that. We're going to now talk about another video because people have been like, Oh, you should talk about this one.

You should talk about this one. I'm going to talk about the show Turning Red, that time where Disney accidentally made a movie promoting Epstein like behavior. I'm going to have to keep finding euphemisms for what we're talking about here.

Simone Collins: And a movie that genuinely terrifies our sons when they don't They don't flinch at Starship Troopers, Jurassic Park.

Malcolm Collins: They ran out of the room at Turning Red.

Simone Collins: Yeah, we were watching it again last night and our son [00:03:00] Octavian was like, I can't, I can't watch! And he runs out of the room. Because you know what? Female puberty is terrifying. Genuinely.

Malcolm Collins: Genuinely. Few things that are scarier. So before we go further, I need to make a confession, Turning Red, if you haven't seen it, if you watched a bunch of people being like, oh, this is a woke movie or whatever, you shouldn't watch it because woke ism, and I don't watch movies because of woke ism, it's woke as hell.

But it is a great

Simone Collins: movie. And let's just, for those who don't have a watching it but maybe still want to watch this, the gist of it is it's about a girl who hits puberty and happens to turn into a giant raccoon. When she feels sexual urges,

Malcolm Collins: basically. Well, a red panda, which is technically a raccoon.

Okay, yeah, a red,

Simone Collins: fine, a red panda. Yes, a red panda. I

Malcolm Collins: love that you mentioned the actual species name, because a lot of people don't know that red pandas are actually a subspecies of raccoon, but anyway, continue. Yeah. It's not [00:04:00] a tanuki, by the way. It's a red panda. But anyway. Yes.

Simone Collins: So yeah, tanukis are super different.

Come on. So, basically whenever she, she becomes emotionally aroused, but also sexually aroused. She, she turns into this panda. It turns out it's this hereditary family trait that she sort of her, her answer, her female ancestral line has supernaturally inherited. That it has, you know, great power, but with great power comes great responsibility and her traditional Chinese parents especially her traditional Chinese mother decides to be very, very protective of this young girl as she hits puberty and becomes a panda.

But this young girl. With the help of her friends figures out a way to master it sufficiently to get a little bit more leeway from her mother, continue going to school, do after, after school activities.

Malcolm Collins: You don't need to give the whole plot away. We're going to do that in our discussion. Okay.

Okay. Plot describing here. But one thing I wanted to start with, which I think is really important, it's a [00:05:00] lot of people have this innate disgust or negative reaction to woke media. Okay. Okay. Okay. Where they see woke media and they think it woke media is toxic messages and they think nothing good can come from it.

And I really take a different perspective than this. I actually think a lot of woke media can be both fantastic and have good messages now. Turning red, I think it's fantastic from an entertainment and setting perspective. For example, like it, it takes place in the 90s, like late 90s. If you grew up in the late 90s, it was such great nostalgia for me.

The songs they have from boy bands in it, which are a major focus of the show, are just perfect. I almost wish there was a genre of like this style of boy band music that I could just go listen to tons and tons of songs of. Yeah, they're

Simone Collins: very cash in the 90s. But like boy band songs made for the movie.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, and they're great. They're really good renditions. Very [00:06:00] catchy. I could watch them over and over again, but it's not just turning red. It's like another show, for example. What's a few others that I absolutely love that are woke. The She Ra rework. Oh, I thought it was fantastic. Which is funny because.

This is one of the shows that was constantly complained about by one of my favorite YouTube channels, which is clownfish TV, which does like takedowns of like woke comic book culture and comic book translations and stuff like that. And they hated the She Ra rework.

Simone Collins: Oh, they did, didn't they? They eviscerated it.

Malcolm Collins: She Ra. So She Ra is actually fantastic. I, I, I think the rework of She Ra is fantastic. I love the way they framed it.

I love the pacing of it. I pretty much love it through to the end.

I'm going to be honest, I even love the, the rework of the character design. A lot of people were complaining because some of the artists for the show before it launched were like, oh, we are going to de sexualize She Ra. We are going [00:07:00] to make an iteration of She Ra that's going to make men mad because it's going to be such an unsexy version of She Ra.

And then they have, like, multiple lesbian makeout scenes throughout the show. It is way more sexually charged than the original. , as you can see from these images right here, , to show you how far the romance goes in the two shows, and how sexualized the characters are drawn in the two shows, with the more modern rework being much more sexual.

Simone Collins: Why doesn't the woke stuff get to you when it got to them? Ugh.

Malcolm Collins: Because there are woke, terrible shows like the new Star Wars and stuff like that. Where they make it woke and soulless and it just feels corporate.

Simone Collins: And the next one's going to be so awful.

Did you hear the interview with the director who was like, I love making men uncomfortable?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that's the director of the next

Simone Collins: one. Yeah. The next one.

Malcolm Collins: It's going to be terrible. It's going to be terrible. It's going to be terrible. These are people without any [00:08:00] talent who are another show that is often considered extremely woke, that I actually think one has good messages, and otherwise a pretty entertaining show, if you take out the filler, is Steven Universe.

Steven Universe is fantastic. I'm sorry. Like anyone who says like the songs in it are great and I'm going to post what I can of songs here

Can't you see that my relationship is stable? I can see you hate the way we intermingle. But I think you're just mad cause you're single . Everything they care about is what I am. I am their fury. I am their patience. I am their conversation

Malcolm Collins: because I think like the

Deep down, I know That I'm just a human But I know that I can draw my sword and fight

Malcolm Collins: Do It For Her song is fantastic.

With my short existence Good I can make a difference Yes, excellent I can be there for him I can be his knight

Malcolm Collins: You actually started crying the first time I played that song for you [00:09:00] because you felt it was so personally relevant for you.

Deep down, you know, you weren't built for fighting. But that doesn't mean you're not. Prepare to try What they don't know Is your real advantage When you live for someone You're prepared to die

Malcolm Collins: The Stronger Together song in the show. And we might do another episode on this.

They treat this alien species, instead of marrying somebody or having a relationship with somebody, they combine into a single entity. And I think that that's very much like the way I think about our relationship.

And that they show how, like, you can have toxic iterations of this entity,

If I had someone to fuse with, I'd Huh? Come here, brat! Aw, don't fly off so soon. Lapis! Lapis, listen. Fuse with me. [00:10:00] What?

Come on, just say yes. Lapis, don't do it.

Huh? What?

What are you doing? Now you're my prisoner, and I'm never letting you go! Lepus!

Yikes. They are really bad for each other.

 I can't stop thinking about being fused as Malachite. How I used all my strength to hold her down in the ocean. How I was always battling against Jasper to keep her bound to me. But it's not like that anymore. You don't have to be with Jasper.

That's [00:11:00] not it. I miss her. What? We were fused for so long. But she's terrible. I'm terrible. I did horrible things.. I thought I was a brute, but you You're a monster. I

let's be Malachite again. Why would you want that? I was terrible to you. I liked taking everything out on you. I needed to, I I hated you. It was bad.

It'll be better this time. I've changed. You've changed me

Malcolm Collins: or you can have some individuals that try to form these really giant entities, but it causes some problems where, like, multiple of them combine. Everything like that. To me, it's a very good metaphor for relationships, and it does a lot to teach kids about positive and non positive relationships.

Well, of course, biasing it towards same sex relationships, because that's what they're trying to push. But, because they're doing it through aliens[00:12:00] I don't think they have a real same sex relationship on the show. Like, humans have relationships on the show, but none of them are same sex. So what's funny is because it's aliens and these aliens don't really have gender in the way that we have gender, they're all females, they don't actually promote same sex relationships in, I think, the way that they think they're promoting same sex relationships.

That hadn't occurred

Simone Collins: to me, but you're totally right. That's really weird.

Malcolm Collins: Another thing about the show that's really interesting is a lot of the fans hate the show because they don't like the Rose reveal. Users who are watching this aren't gonna care about this, but it is, if you know about the insider politics on this, it turns out that one of the main characters was basically manipulating all the characters and to an extent the audience through gaslighting them about her being a good person.

Literally, she was always basically a selfish and manipulative person. This is so horrible. wouldn't have done this, you know, or everything like that. And I'm like, no, the show just did such a good job of showing you what a female gaslighting you and manipulating you into thinking that she was someone other than what she was, was [00:13:00] like that when the.

And as soon as the reveal happened, you couldn't accept that this is the experience that many men have gone through. And many women have gone through over and over and over and over and over again throughout human history and throughout our society today. And so you just chose that it was bad writing when actually I think it was very good writing of what a manipulative, self centered, narcissistic person is like.

Good grief.

Actually, the show has a kind of pronatalist message to it at least insofar as pronatalism is defined against life extensionism as the goal of intergenerational improvement, in that this narcissistic character is So narcissistic and so self centered and so completely irredeemable as an individual that she can only redeem herself through her death and the creation of a new person who is her son, who is a redeeming character.

And, [00:14:00] and because she's an alien and because they can't reproduce in the way that humans reproduce, when she reproduces as a human, what happens is she ends up reforming as herself as a son. And just to give you an idea of like, how bad of a person she is. She, for example, has a friend, who was made to keep her happy, who she leaves for millennium to rot on a planet because she gets bored of her, but lies to her and tells her that they're playing like a hide and seek game

I actually think the reason the fanbase took so much umbrage to this particular twist and began to sour on the show in general is they misunderstood what the show was about. One of the core themes of the show, which I really liked because I thought it was interesting and fresh, is what female cruelty looks like.

So, often in shows today, the big bad is a male, or is cruel in a masculine, sort of [00:15:00] sadistic way, instead of in the, often, the way you are more likely to see in females, which is the narcissistic, self centered way, and the destructive relationship way. Here in the garden, let's play a game, I'll show you how it's done. Here in the garden, stand very still, this'll be So much fun. And then she smiled. That's what I'm after. The smile in her eyes. The sound of her laughter. Happy

Standing alone As thousands of years go by Everly wondering, night after night Is this how it works? Am I doing it right? Something, finally news, about how the story [00:16:00] ends. Isn't that lovely?

Isn't that cool? And isn't that cruel? And aren't I a fool to have Happily listened

Simone Collins: Let's get on to turning red,

Malcolm Collins: turning red. Yeah. Well, we got to fill our runtime, you know, Simone, anyway, turning red, fantastic show in terms of just like the plot arc, the, the animation, everything like that. Although it's California bean mouse style, if you're familiar with that, but anyway I'm going to talk about how it actually is this.

So in the show, Simone is right. They repeatedly set up that her turning into a panda is an analogy for her puberty. Yep. This is very well established in the show and not just her puberty, but her sexuality. So what you learn is that the previous women in her family have learned to seal what is the analogy of their sexuality independent, right?

And then become good wives or good moms or whatever, right? Like just normal, [00:17:00] good people, female roles in society by sealing their sexuality was independent and having it no longer control them.

Sorry, but what you also learn is that she, so, so this is the way it starts, right? You know, she's beginning to go through puberty and it's very clear that it's a purity. There's a number of period jokes, like her mom showing up at her school was like a tampon or something and waving it outside the window, like, obviously mortifying to her.

You know, so there's a number of like, there, this is not vague. This is not our interpretation that the panda is supposed to represent when her sexuality into puberty. And keep in mind, sexuality is a very important part of this movie. And the way the, the core way it's represented is their desire to go see a boy band that they have regular sexual fantasies about, and one of the early scenes is of her, like.

Drawing this boy band that she has like smooching them and stuff like that. Like, obviously they PG ify it, but it is not vague.

Okay, his shoulders are [00:18:00] kinda nice. His eyes are Fine.

Simone Collins: Isn't that what triggers her first conversion into giant red raccoon? Yes.

Malcolm Collins: It is not vague that this movie is about her sexuality and the panda represents her sexuality. So a lot of people got that.

And they, they ended, how controversial the movie was at that. Can you believe there's a Disney movie about periods? If that's what the movie was about, I would think it was a wholesome, good message. Yeah, or it'd be

Simone Collins: kind of

Malcolm Collins: boring. That's not what happens in the movie. That's not the end of the representation of her sexuality.

No, in

Simone Collins: fact, it's, it's, it's like the, I almost find it kind of annoying. Cause I'm like, you know, it would be really nice if there were like a fun, playful movie [00:19:00] about female puberty. But this is only about one aspect of puberty, female puberty. And it's not even like, I would say the most common aspect.

Malcolm Collins: So hold on, hold on, which is loss of emotional control, which they haven't talked about, but also horniness.

But hold on, I got to go.

Simone Collins: No, Malcolm, sorry. It's, it's a lot more than that. Like law, like for most. For many young women, okay, for me, fine, but like many young women, it has nothing to do with discovering sexuality. It has everything to do with periods, and pain, and being gross, and having pimples all over your face, and being depressed and hating your body.

And, like, basically the only thing that happens to the female lead in this movie, Is she, her body changes? Yes, but in a way that as we will discuss further in just a second, people actually really find quite appealing. So her body is different, but it's as if she only just like grew giant tits. And that's what female

Malcolm Collins: puberty is.

Like the South Park episode, the baby's boobs episode. But anyway, hold on, I've got to go further with this, because this is actually So if [00:20:00] you take the plot assumption, which is, which is very accurate, the panda represents her sexuality. The rest of her family and traditional Chinese culture rejects female sexuality.

And in one of the core things in the movie is she is breaking from that because she is accepting her sexuality at the end of the movie. And this is important to know at the beginning here. She decides to not seal away her panda. She thinks that she needs to embrace her panda and make it a part of her.

Everyday life. And this is to represent the traditional Chinese culture's rejection of sexuality and her embracing of sexuality. But then, when you take this in mind and you look at the other things that happen in the plot, it gets really, really disgusting. So let's talk about the plot here. So the core conflict of the plot is she wants to go see this boy band with her friends.

But, she cannot [00:21:00] afford to see this boy band with her

Simone Collins: friends. Well, and this is after she attempted to get her parents to convince, like, well, convince her parents that it was okay, very professionally and very openly and honestly, to say, hey, mom and dad, can I go to this concert? They first said no. So, then she decided she, with her friends, was going to defy all their parents and they were going to somehow get the money themselves and sneak

Malcolm Collins: out and see it.

Yes, so so it starts with I'm gonna define my parents and do this thing related to my sexuality that they don't want me to do Which is very clearly this boy band thing. So how do you think she gets the money to do this? So she First is she has learned that all of the young girls at the school all the young boys at the schools who are sharing pics of her as a panda Pictures of her in panda form, i.

e. her sexuality, have a strong desire to engage, to rub the soft fur, to hug, to take pictures with, [00:22:00] to share as a status symbol within their local high school, all. Her sexuality, so her friends get together and they advertise her panda to her panda to all the other young kids in the school and the young kids pay to interact with her panda, but.

It's not that she has no scruples at all, there is one boy who is a dick, and she doesn't like this boy, and so they don't let this boy pay to interact with the panda, but then they realize that they are short for the money to go with. So. So. To this concert. And so they have this boy pay an exorbitant amount to have the Panda be the main attractor at a party that he is hosting.

And he gets special access to this Panda. So it's saying one. Use this new sexuality you have found to pay for your lifestyle, [00:23:00] IG only fans or whatever these days. Yes! Yes! This is shared through the internet, right? If somebody is a jerk or you disagree with them ideologically, Restrict their access, as long as they're not paying a ton.

But if they are paying a ton, yeah. Ah, that's where you really need to go all out with the panda. And her parents and her family are the core thing that is preventing her from selling herself to this boy, right? But she sneaks out late at night when nobody's paying attention because they all think she is a good girl.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah, like, because in, in the, the after school time that she is doing this. activity, you know, selling pictures and time with classmates. Is the panda. She tells her parents believe that she and her friends are, have formed a mathletes club. And are doing math. So

Malcolm Collins: they have an elaborate system for hiding that she's selling her Panda, which her parents don't think is appropriate for anyone to even see, which of course, [00:24:00] that's the point of the analogy.

But why does she sell it? Why is that how she makes the money? Why did Disney not realize what the image they were pushing with this was? Why do they not realize that selling panda pics is a problem when pandas are a representative of going through. For her sexual awakening and her embrace of her sexual awakening, but it gets worse and all that.

It is so much worse, like every aspect of this movie is so internally depraved. It is a gas at me. So Simone, you were pointing out when the movie happened, she found a way to control the panda, right? Yeah,

Simone Collins: and what's interesting, I didn't pick this up the first time we watched it, was that the way that she controls her panda isn't by Like what you would normally think of like meditating or thinking about her core values.

It's, it's about [00:25:00] thinking about her social network and friends which is very, well, the approach is very actually female puberty. Right. Cause I mean, that's, that's what you're like hyper driven to focus on when you were a teenager is your peers.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, it's social approval. It's all of her friends saying that you are okay the way you are and I appreciate that and she lies to her parents about this as well.

She says to her parents that they are what she's using to control these, these outbreaks, but it's really social approval, which again, I think is actually a pretty good metaphor for puberty. But also maybe not a great message for young girls to, to push that another really interesting thing is over all within this and you, you, you keep seeing this, is that women in this movie lack emotional control.

That is a core aspect of women. Women are, one, abusive to other women, like this is seen through her mother's interaction with her.

Simone Collins: Or the fact that her friends pimp her out.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, for money. [00:26:00] She doesn't pay for her ticket. Sorry, I should make this clear. It's not that her friends have some other means of paying for this like their families.

And it's just that her, because her family has rejected her, needs to pimp or sell to us to pay for her tickets. She has to pay for the tickets of every single one of her friends and her friends are pressuring her into selling herself so that they can buy tickets to the boy band.

Simone Collins: Right. So her friends are toxic in that way.

Her mother is way overprotective. I mean, her mother arguably is one of the reasons why she's doing all this in the first place when she pitched the idea of just going to the boy band concert to her parents. Originally her father was like, why not let her go? Like, this seems fine. This is a very well reasoned argument, you know, it's music, whatever.

And her mother was

Malcolm Collins: basically abusive to the father. Like she scolded him. She was cruel, completely unnecessarily. The father throughout this is a paragon of what I would say fatherly masculinity is [00:27:00] like actually a very good masculine role model for people who are in this world of child masculinity, which is Andrew Tate masculinity, which is not the masculinity of a man who's in a married long term relationship.

He is the rock of the family.

Simone Collins: Which is interesting because if you're not paying attention, you just assume that he's the hapless father trope. Of just the like, well, I don't know that I'm just here. I'm just the dad. Like, don't mind me. You know, it's like that common trope, right? Where like the dad's kind of just like shoved off to the side.

Whereas like in the end, he models the most responsible, empathetic, kind, and reasonable behavior.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Well, and part of me wonders is why did a progressive write a man in this way in a world where like only women matter, only women have special abilities. This is, there's actually this scene that like really got me when it was talking about the beginning of how the panda came about.

Right. And it said that all the men in the local community had died. Fighting to protect the community [00:28:00] and after that it was a mom and her daughters and she needed to find out how to protect her daughters and so then she started praying and then she got the panda powers and I'm like, why didn't she get the panda powers before all the men in the community died?

Did every like, is that how disposable men are in your viewpoint that you just let? In this fake story that you made up, and you could have framed it any way you want. She could have saved her entire community. She could have had male and female children. No. She only had female children and all the men had already died trying to protect her before she decided to pray for these panda powers.

And then she used them just to protect the daughters, right? Like, there is a deep level of misandry. Throughout the entire movie, men's lives don't matter, but even within this level of misandry, and I think you see this was in misandric communities, this man is still something that they dream of and wish existed and pine for.

And [00:29:00] it's really sort of sad to see this representation, but also see even within their world, he is treated with such consistent and constant disrespect by his wife. The daughter clearly respects him, but the wife just has no respect for him. And they see this as just or ac I, I, I don't know, but it is, it is weird that they think that they are portraying a message where women are good.

If anything, for a man watching this, this is why you should never get into a relationship. Women won't view your lives as mattering. They won't care that you died protecting the family. And that If you're a man, you'll just constantly be berated by your wife for being reasonable and trying to do what is, in every instance, the best thing for his daughter.

Simone Collins: Also, maybe the film creators were just giving fair warning, you know? Nipping it at the bud. You will not be respected in your relationship. Don't bother.

Actually, now that I think about it, Steven Universe is the same way. , Greg Universe, [00:30:00] Steven's dad in the show, is by far the most mentally stable and responsible human being who, in the, in the entire show. , which is really shocking, and, and, and what he is put through by all of the women in the show is really interesting as well.

He, for example, , is made to be a single father he is forced to, it's implied heavily or maybe outright stated, that he has to pay for the living, arrangements, , and all of the stuff that all of the Crystal Gems are using.

So he has to get a job They live separately from him, with his son, , and he has to pay for their lifestyle, and this entire time, he is nothing but just a great and, , decent human being.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But just throughout it, it's an interesting and twisted message. Sell your body, you know, of course, right? Like that's how you should lie to your parents.

Sell your body. All social validation [00:31:00] comes from your, your network. And if you are selling your body, just make sure to not sell it for cheap if you're selling it to someone you hate or ideologically disagree with. That's where you really need to get those big bucks, make it rain. I got to do a little video scene in the song where they have the girl making it rain.

Only came to win the game, can't you got it. I wanted it. I went for it

Malcolm Collins: And If you are lying to your parents, the best way to do it is to pretend like you're doing something like mathletes or something like that. The way she gets her parents on board with the mathletes is saying that she doesn't have a diverse enough

Simone Collins: what's the word? That just getting into college on academics will not get her in.

She needs to have extracurriculars as well to be rounded out.

Malcolm Collins: Be manipulative. Be a snake. Yeah. And it's, it's not for a good thing. It's not like she's trying to save a family member. She's trying to see a boy band that she's horny for. Yeah. As one review said, it's one of the horniest movies I've ever seen.

I won't say it's as horny as Baldur's Gate 3. [00:32:00] I said Baldur's Gate 3 was good. I actually take that back. Baldur's Gate 3, when I was playing it, it was just too aggressively horny, which is why I love Rogue Trader so much. The the Warhammer 40K game that I'm. I've been playing more now, but I, I stopped recently cause it gets kind of bad after Act 3.

Too bad. But, sorry, I, I am a video game, anime, everything like that nerd. What are other woke shows that are actually surprisingly good? The, the reboot of

Voltron.

Malcolm Collins: Is fantastic. For people who haven't seen that, it's on Netflix, it's great. It's woke, somebody's like gay in it, somebody's a girl and he's not in the original, it is great.

What other woke things? Any other oppressively woke things that we really like?

I totally forgot Owl House, which is fantastic. Sometimes someone gets so brainwashed they think the reason people hate woke media is they hate the groups that woke [00:33:00] media uses to deliver its indoctrination. This would be like if a wife found a bunch of lesbian porn on her husband's computer and got mad at him for it, and his takeaway was, Wow, my wife really hates lesbians.

 No, she does not hate lesbians. She hates the way you chose to use lesbians. People who say they hate the woke media really have a problem with just the quote unquote woke media. Not race swaps, overwhelming minority casting, or even underage lesbian relationships. With the three examples I am thinking of here that I have never seen chastised

within my online circles, being Into the Spider Verse was Miles Morales, Black Panther, or Owl House. Now you might say, Nuh uh, I can find an example of someone complaining about it. And like, sure, it's the internet, of course you can. I hang out in these types of online spaces, where people complain about woke shows, and I can guarantee you that if somebody started b******g about Into the Spider Verse, they're going to get their ass handed to them by the majority of the community.

Side note before we go further, Owl House is an amazing show. [00:34:00] Yes, it has an underage lesbian relationship in it as a major plot point, but that is not in some effort to include seditious agenda. It is just because the individuals creating the show are so immersed in that culture, I do not think they could authentically write anything else.

Which is a shame, because to my understanding, the studio, Disney, ended up shutting down the show early as a result. Even though I saw no significant blowback against it online when contrasted with things like the Castle in Kennedy projects Which are the bad soulless Advertisements for the urban monoculture kind of woke that people actually hate which keep getting greenlit

If you think the majority of people who complain about wokeness in media actually have any animosity towards minorities or the LGBT community, you have either been manipulated or simply refused to actually engage with these groups as human beings. There is a reason the urban monoculture makes a point of shunning anyone who is caught publicly talking to the quote unquote enemy.

Because if they did, people might actually realize the groups that they are dehumanizing as deplorable rednecks are real humans, whose base [00:35:00] is often more socially and economically vulnerable than the other base, and who have real grievances, and most importantly, whose actual demands are sensible in measure.

They hide this from you by only showing you the most egregious of what that group is saying and then shunning anyone who is seen talking to that group. So long as they can find one extra naughty tweet the person made. Which of course you're gonna find was pretty much anyone in this group because they do not engage online like they have Gestapo thought police living over their shoulders.

To use an analogy we've used before, to think of those complaining about wokeness being inserted into media to spread the urban monoculture as having an actual beef with minorities or the LGBT community is a bit like a Gazan thinking Israelis have an actual beef with people in hospitals. If you don't get what I mean here, Think about the quote tied to the new Star Wars being produced.

I love to make men uncomfortable with my work. Now this shows that she wants to make the work actively antagonistic to quote unquote men. By which of course she means [00:36:00] men who have a right leaning perspective. Now, if she decides to

 Put a ticket in it and make her lame and gay! Any diverse woman in it, make her gay! But Mrs. Kennedy, Bambi's a baby deer! F**k baby deer, put a chick in it, make her gay! Linguine and clam sauce. Uh, excuse me, I believe I asked you to put a chick in this and make her gay. Uh, yes, the chef was a little confused what you meant by that.

It means put a chick in the linguine and make her f*****g gay! It's lame!

Men within that

demographic group are going to come off as sounding like they are mad at gay people when nothing of the sort is true.

They are mad that somebody used gay people in an attempt to hurt them through meddling with a work that they personally identified with and that meant a lot to their personal self narrative. Maybe because it was important to them growing up or something like that.

Simone Collins: I mean, I think a lot of media has become woke and [00:37:00] depending on what it is, like just woke in terms of like how it's cast and the types of roles and gravity falls woke. I don't think so. But like, I think how, how we define woke is it like sort of becomes overtly.

Like it, it breaks the fourth wall enough where you like lose your suspension of disbelief because the, the woke is being shoved so vigorously down your throat that you're

like,

Malcolm Collins: wait, I mean, this has ruined some recent project. A great example of this is one of my friends, Aaron Estevez anyway, so he was the show runner, the guy who created Avatar the Last Airbender. Great guy, really interesting. He was in the initial class when I was accepted into Stanford, but I delayed my acceptance for a few years, but I hung out with him and then I went to see him at Riot because he went to work for them for a while.

For clarification, I haven't talked to him in years, especially since I started doing anything that was remotely controversial, so don't anyone, like, try to pull that connection there. Um, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Really great guy. Anyway, so he He then created a new show that just absolutely destroyed me. I [00:38:00] hated it. You watched it with me. It was terrible. It was, this world was like magic and dragons and stuff like that, but the thing that killed it is they did what I call race explosion, which is they had.

Like, these mystical worlds, right, but, like, people of different ethnic groups were, like, exploded throughout them. So you would have, like, a medieval kingdom where, like, you'd have white people and black people and Asian people, and I was like, oh, how, how did this happen? How are they still distinct ethnicities if they don't have racism and they're all living amongst each other?

 It's this constant questioning that's going in my mind, right?

Okay, here's how you solve it. You could say that because the world is magic, people are, regardless of their parents ethnicity, born into one of a few predefined ethnic groups. The problem with this is then their ethnicity doesn't have any real value within the world, and you are essentially erasing minority groups.

Yeah, so it's not a great answer, but it could at [00:39:00] least plausibly allow this to happen. Also, you would have to arbitrarily choose which ethnic groups people can be born within. I guess they would be born at a rate that mirrors the rate of that ethnicity within a city like San Francisco. So this would allow for mixed race people to also be born in this world.

I don't know. Clearly, I'm overthinking it. But I'm trying to figure out how you could have a world that for Thousands of years could have no racism and different races living alongside each other and yet still have a bunch of unique Ethnic groups that mirror those of a major u. s city right now

Malcolm Collins: Whereas I think his first work, Avatar the Last Airbender, did this really, really effectively. Yeah. Where yeah, there are different essence groups and even essence groups that are not often addressed in our society today, like, you know, Inuit people and stuff like that are really prominently featured in it.

And then you have the Chinese group, and you have the Japanese group, and you have the Tibetan group. Like, those are the three groups. Tibetan, Japanese, Chinese. Anyway, so, you know, not at all like a white supporting show or [00:40:00] anything like that. Fantastic, because these groups are separate. They have unique cultures.

I learned to understand them, and where these groups do mix, I understand how they've mixed, and how they've mixed intergenerationally. And it creates this extended lore that is interesting to me. This is the way you be woke efficaciously. You focus on ethnic groups that people haven't spent a lot of time focusing on, and you explain how a world where they are the dominant groups interacts with each other.

Like it's almost sort of sci fi, right? Like it's taking a hypothesis. What if the world was divided into Chinese, Japanese, Inuit, and Tibetan? And these different groups had different powers that were associated with them, and they had to learn how to engage with each other. And accurately, racistly, I would almost say, the Japanese turned out to be the genocidal maniacs.

And they tried to take over the world. No, really, what happens when the Japanese attack? Their country even looks like Japan. I can't get over this, right? But then in this other world, it's like racial [00:41:00] Explosion! It's like, that's boring. And you see this recently, and this is another thing I want to rail against, is the random ethnic casting in historical dramas that people think is okay.

I don't like it. And I think it lowers Ethnic contributions to historical context. A great example, Catherine, the great, great show. It's on Hulu where they do like a modern funny rendition of Catholic, the great, but they do like a multi ethnic casting because they're like, well, we'll be, you know, we'll have a random like Indian and African.

Cass in this historic context where they wouldn't have been, but here's where it really, I think, undermines the role of different ethnic groups is Catherine the Great actually interacted with real Indians, real Africans,

Simone Collins: real people. So you have, you have trouble when, like, it's a, it's based in a real historical period where the nature of different racial and ethnic groups interacting was meaningful and very interesting.[00:42:00]

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: they could have had meaningful scenes where an Indian person comes to court and they are engaging with this, or an African person comes to court, which really happened during Catherine's reign, and this is actually something where they would have these individuals come on to stage in the show, like an Indian person, or somebody of one of these Yeah.

for Russian ethnic groups that is really quite distinct from the Russian main ethnic group. But I wasn't able to tell that these characters were meaningful or that their culture was meaningful because they had shotgunned random ethnicities into the core of her court. And so they were not able to, I highlight how these, these, these ethnic interactions were actually interesting and meaningful and highlight people who, if I was an Indian and I was watching this, I would have been like, Oh, this is how Indians engaged was and interacted with the, the, the cast from the great court.

But instead I'm seeing an Indian actor and I'm like, obviously this person historically wasn't Indian. [00:43:00] I don't know. That really

Simone Collins: bothers me. Well, I just ignore it. And I, I mean, if like the, that show was meant to be a comedy, so I watched it for comedy and costumes And same with shows like Bridgerton that have this like really, really diverse cast and just like, whatever, like this is, this is about romance in the case of Bridgerton, this is about comedy in the case of, it's called the great, right?

So like, whatever, I'm just not, I'm not going to worry about it, but yeah, I do, I do think that the takeaway though,

Malcolm Collins: with this erasure of these actual communities.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but that's what the urban monoculture is all about. The urban monoculture wants, as you say diversity in victims, but not in, in culture.

So that, that wouldn't be a

Malcolm Collins: problem. It erases diversity of victims. It erases the Indian minorities that were within the Russian empire and needed to petition to the Russian government. Right. No, but that

Simone Collins: they don't care about historicity. They care about. of humorous show. [00:44:00] They're trying to highlight that, oh, fancy people can be of all backgrounds because that's how we work in our society now.

And that's it. Like they're, they're not thinking about historical accuracy and the move that the show wasn't historically accurate. It wasn't supposed to be historically accurate. It was supposed to be funny. And it had some genuinely very funny moments, a little too cringe for us, but like genuinely funny.

Malcolm Collins: So I thought it was genuinely funny. I wouldn't even say cringe. It was good. The Great is great. Yeah. It's

Simone Collins: a good show. There you

Malcolm Collins: go. But I would just say like a movie that she made that was a full movie that was also pretty good.

Simone Collins: Oh. No, you're thinking about the No, you're It's, it's not obviously about Catherine the Great.

It's about one of the No,

Malcolm Collins: not Catherine the Great. The person who made Catherine the Great. She also made a movie that was a historic movie. And when I introduced Catherine the Great to you, I was like, You should check out this show that's like this movie you watched. And I think it was about like Queen Elizabeth and like a gay lover or something.

Or

Simone Collins: But we have to wrap up. So any final thoughts on turning red?[00:45:00]

Malcolm Collins: Just a great show from an entertainment perspective. Not necessarily something I would show my kids all the way through because I think it has a bad message for young women. And it's interesting to me where like people end up in sorting messages into shows like that.

This could have gotten greenlit that nobody said, wait, is the plot here that they're selling their bodies for sex? Like is, is that. Actually the plot, like did nobody that nobody thought through, they were so impressed that it was a plot that included female coming of age and puberty and periods that they didn't think to question the implications of the rest of the plot.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: which is amazing. Or maybe there is just some subtle campaign to get girls on OnlyFans earlier and earlier and earlier. So they can make money and become empowered. Don't you understand? Right!

Malcolm Collins: So that they can pay for concert tickets.

Simone Collins: Yeah, obviously.

Malcolm Collins: Obviously.

Simone Collins: Anyway, Malcolm, I love you so mu [00:46:00] yeah. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: I love you too. We're gonna get some kids. I'm sorry.

Simone Collins: I'll go with you. Let's go down together. You're

Malcolm Collins: so lovely.

Simone Collins: We'll walk through the snow hand in hand.

Oh no! It's

Malcolm Collins: going to be an Olympic!

Simone Collins: I'm looking forward to it. Let's do it.

Malcolm is the best, and I love him, Malcolm is so pretty, and so cool,

Malcolm Collins: Malcolm makes every moment special. And

Simone Collins: we all love him. Don't be cruel. Don't you understand

Malcolm Collins: that Malcolm's the best? Why

Simone Collins: don't you all watch his YouTube channel? Don't

Malcolm Collins: be a loser and hit subscribe. Because Malcolm is

Simone Collins: really,

Malcolm Collins: really great.

I need to put that at the end, don't I? I need to have some of you singing for the air. Can you do one of your songs? No, we're going to

Simone Collins: go back to where we were. So they eviscerated She Ra.

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