We explore recent studies finding high rates of dark triad personality traits like narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism among antinatalists. We argue antinatalism correlates more with these pathological traits than with depression. We discuss how the inability of narcissists to genuinely consider other perspectives makes them project their negative worldview. We also touch on how child support laws may select against dark triad traits in the population.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] the, the core personality traits that appear to be associated with antinatalism are generally dark triad personality traits, but specifically antagonistic narcissism, psychopathic meanness, psychopathic disinhibition, and antagonistic Machiavellianism.

And then the other article that looked into this found. Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy were the primary traits that predicted antinatalist belief systems and then secondarily was depression. But you often found them together.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and the difference is that we had thought that depression was first and foremost the big correlatory factor.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. You needed to be a narcissistic psychopath. And if you are a narcissistic psychopath and depressed, you're likely to be an antinatalist. You're a

Simone Collins: sad narcissistic

Malcolm Collins: psychopath. Like the level of narcissistic sociopathy that would deny life to another person. Who would want to [00:01:00] live just because you personally would prefer to kill yourself, but don't want to take the responsibility of killing yourself. To me, it's just this insane level of sociopathy.

 These studies helped me understand why we have such trouble getting through to the antinatalist community with logical arguments. Because it was never based on logic to begin with. It was always a psychiatric condition.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Known. Just sad. They're

Simone Collins: being beautiful. But,

Malcolm Collins: I love you to death, Simone, and I am excited to be doing this episode because I always love, I mean, great

Simone Collins: thing we love shitting all over people and who doesn't hold

Malcolm Collins: on. The great thing about the prenatal movement and and being seen as sort of its leaders is the an, an antithesis of us, the antinatalists movement.

It's just so like, every time I dig deeper, it somehow is worse than I could have conceived it was. It's somehow [00:02:00] crazier than I could have conceived it was. And it's somehow more just like, transparently, and obviously the bad guys, in sort of this conflicting Like, like, it's like You know, I don't feel like there's been a fight in a long time where there were, like, obvious bad guys and good guys since, like, World War II and fighting the Nazis.

You know, people sort of almost reminisce about these old times where there was a very obvious good guy side and a very obvious bad guy side. And the antinatalist movement, you know, they, they're like, well, we have to keep humans alive so we can kill all life on the planet too. But let's let's go into like how they came up again recently for us, right?

Is I was having to do an audit of how different terms do and how our movement is doing in different search results. And the audit was actually kind of depressing for me in many ways. And that I'll look up something like demographic collapse and when I'm doing it in like an incognito browser, everything's like, this is why demographic collapse isn't a problem at all.

[00:03:00] Demographic collapse, fake science.

Simone Collins: Everything's okay here situation normal.

Malcolm Collins: Actually, I should do some screenshots of this because I know, I know in like Two years when it's just so obvious that this is an issue. Everyone's going to say no one was ever saying that everyone always knew this was an issue.

How dare like, it was funny. We had a reporter over from France at our house yesterday. And she goes, what do you think of all these you know, researchers at universities who are saying you guys are fake science and that you guys are making all this up. And I'm like, I love that they're saying this.

Please put them on record because the more of them you put on record, the better I'm going to look in a few years when it turns out that we were 100 percent correct. And right now I'm like not even predicting this future data. It's like my scary predictions are just what's in the data right now. And they're not looking year to year at how bad things have gotten.

But anyway, antinatalists are different, right? Like, they're not deniers that this is a problem. A lot of antinatalists know how bad fertility rates have gotten. They just think it's a morally good thing for people who

Simone Collins: want to learn more. Yeah, it cheers them up, which [00:04:00] means a lot, because they're often very depressed.

Malcolm Collins: But we can talk about that, because there's statistics on this now. So this is something I hadn't thought to do, was to actually look up the statistics that correlated with antinatalism. And my naive thought from reading the antinatalist post is that depression would be the primary correlating psychological condition with antinatalism.

And

Simone Collins: my naive thought actually, like we, we had a debate with leading antinatalists of at least one faction, John and Lawrence Anton in London. And they were incredibly like, it was clear that they were in it because they were Deeply, deeply, philosophically, intellectually concerned negative utilitarians.

Like we ate in a vegan restaurant for dinner. You're

Malcolm Collins: autistic and you're bad at reading people. That is not why they were in it. No. No. And we can get into this more, but I think that you just believe whatever anyone tells you if they're being affable and kind. Yep. They were being affable and they told you something.

And so you believed it because you're not [00:05:00] very good at reading people. It was a good vegan

Simone Collins: restaurant we went to though. It was

Malcolm Collins: a great vegan restaurant. But anyway so everybody knows, you know, and we've done episodes on this if people want to go into it more the psychological trait that is really overwhelmingly overrepresented in the pronatalist movement is autism.

This is where the, the joke in the pronatalist movement of the greater replacement theory comes from. That the autists are going to replace everyone else. But I'd also say it's not just autism that is overwhelmingly seen in the pronatalist movement. Transcribed there's two other traits that I've noticed really, really big in the pronatalist movement.

Oh my God. One is general high mood, like general happiness. Most of the pronatalists we know are like, I'd say bubbly people, maybe even

Simone Collins: a little Yeah, you're right. Low anxiety, low neuroticism, relatively speaking, from a type of person who often you would expect to be high neuroticism. Like at the natalism conference, a lot of like really big intellectual speakers and, and, and thinkers, like, you know, [00:06:00] high caliber, high caliber people were there.

And yet they, the ones who had kids were like pretty chill for that. No,

Malcolm Collins: it's a very low neuroticism movement and I'd say very high pro sociality. Like natural prosociality. So I'd say high autism, low neuroticism, a bit higher than normal prosociality. And you saw this at the conference, like the conference felt really weird to me because typically when I go to conferences where there's like something that people are like autistically obsessed with, you get higher than normal neuroticism within those communities.

And it was a very interesting environment because you both had the autistic, like, Oh, everyone here is automatically my friend and I'm going to go up and talk to them and be nice to them. And you, you have like an anime convention or something like that, but then you didn't have the like constant fear from some people there where it's like constantly little explosions are happening.

Cause one group thinks everyone else is their friend. And then the other [00:07:00] group is like super neurotic about people coming up and trying to engage with them. Don't touch me. So that was amazing. But so I'm looking up the statistics on, on what is most correlated with anti natalism. And I found, it turns out that there's actually like a body of literature on this at least multiple studies.

And it seems like more than this because one here is talking about a larger body of studies here. So this has been at least replicated twice. So the, the core personality traits that appear to be associated with antinatalism are generally dark triad personality traits, but specifically antagonistic narcissism, psychopathic meanness, psychopathic disinhibition, and antagonistic Machiavellianism.

I didn't even

Simone Collins: know that, like, wait. So what's the opposite of antagonistic Machiavellianism? I guess like super love bombing Machiavellianism. Is that [00:08:00] me? Is that me? Am I love bombing yet?

Malcolm Collins: So, so this, this article that I was just quoting from came from dark personality traits and antinatalist beliefs, the mediating role of primal world beliefs.

And then the other article that looked into this specifically this other article found. Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy were the primary traits that predicted antinatalist belief systems and then secondarily was depression. But you often found them together.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and the difference is that we had thought that depression was first and foremost the big correlatory factor.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. You needed to be a narcissistic psychopath. And if you are a narcissistic psychopath and depressed, you're likely to be an antinatalist. You're a

Simone Collins: sad narcissistic

Malcolm Collins: psychopath. But it's something I actually see you know, and I think that this is a thing when we're talking about the people we met and stuff like that, Simone.

And, and this can, I think for a lot of people, they hear antinatalist beliefs. And there is this like really, really [00:09:00] flimsy justification for antinatalism. If anybody wants to hear our argument as to why it's not, like, like why we go deep into the logic of antinatalism, you can watch our video These People Want Everyone Dead and Are Weirdly Reasonable About It.

Or just, you know, look up the antinatalism video for Basecamp. And we go deep on that, but I always felt kind of uncomfortable with it, because when I go over the arguments antinatalism, it is so logically sort of shaky and, and really contrived that I, I sort of have this feeling, like, how, how are people arriving at this belief?

And I was like, well, there must be a large amount of depressed people in the community, which there are, like, objectively, if you look at what antinatalist posts there are. But I, I was, I was still pretty confused. Now when I'm looking at how common narcissism and psychopathy are within the community, it really explains things for me.

So, imagine you are just like an incredibly narcissistic [00:10:00] person and anyone who has met with or known narcissistic people. People who have narcissism, even if they're fairly smart people, it's a psychological condition that makes it almost impossible for them to genuinely consider the world from another person's perspective.

And so you, you have this inability to genuinely consider, and what does it mean to consider things from another person's perspective? Because I think that people hear this and they don't understand what I'm saying, like, like a, a narcissistic person could hear this and be like, I think about things from other people's perspectives all the time.

And it's like, no, when a narcissist tries to think about the world from another person's perspective, they just clone their own personality and their own intentions onto the other person. They don't consider, well, you know, we'll, we'll talk about how you don't actually do that in a second, because I think that you're being overly disingen dis, dis what's the word?

Not giving yourself enough credit. They are not good at considering That an outside person might [00:11:00] genuinely have different ideas and motivations in them. They say, what would have driven me to that position? And then they use that to model the individual. And so, if you are

Simone Collins: Someone, go

Malcolm Collins: on, yeah. Yeah, but if you are a deeply depressed person and you also have this narcissistic personality,

Simone Collins: then of course everyone wants to die or not exist, wishes they were never born, but he

Malcolm Collins: tells you, I don't actually want to die.

I really love my life. You are in, you're like, no, yeah, because of this psychological problem that they have. Um, So, so this is why narcissism is so elevated within the community, is it's, you've got this depressed population, and depression is really high within the urban monoculture because, for reasons we've talked about in other videos, you can look up, like, the Cult of Psychologists episode we've done if you want more on that but The, you know, people who are far progressives are much more likely to be depressed because they've stripped [00:12:00] out a lot of their traditional sort of emotional infrastructure and then they become susceptible to a lot of these memetic sets which prey on sort of their depression.

Like the modern day psychologist movement, which psychologists used to be great. Not anymore. You can go to our video. Is psychology a cult? I don't know. Were they? Because

Simone Collins: like, I just feel like it went from Freud to like where we are now.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no. There was an intermediate stage. I know the age of cognitive behavior.

They warned us against all of the stuff psychologists are doing today. They're like, there was a period in the 70s where people accidentally created dependency with their patients. Yeah. Don't do that. But it appears

Simone Collins: Well, and then in the 60s and 50s, it was still all psychoanalysis. Maybe it was Jungian, but still, like, that's not No,

Malcolm Collins: no, there was a period from like, uh, 80s, 90s, early aughts, I think, when it was When it was all CBT.

Yeah, CBT, CBT is fantastic.

Simone Collins: It's like the one, the one bright spot. Okay, I don't think that counts.

Malcolm Collins: No, hold on, but we gotta go back to where we were talking about here. We've got other videos on this other stuff. And people can [00:13:00] watch that if that's what they're interested in. Um, so, you're out there and you are depressed.

And you have this narcissistic personality trait, you are unable to believe that other people like their lives. And you are unable to genuinely accept their perception and their arguments about why life is worth living. Because you personally, and this is common when a person has clinical depression, you personally are unable to see the genuine positives of being alive.

But. Then the question would be like, yeah, but it's not just narcissism that this has a heavy overlap with, it's also psychopathy and Machiavellianism. And it's like, well, yes, because there's individuals who hear this and they're like, okay, everyone else is just faking being happy, the world sucks, right?

But then it takes a special type of psychopathy to then think, so we should kill everyone. I should make it my life goal and I will be a [00:14:00] hero if I champion the death of all humans. And when I say Well,

Simone Collins: now, now, only a small minority does. We have to be clear that like most antinatalists just don't want any more humans to exist.

So they want to basically end humanity, but not necessarily kill all living humans.

Malcolm Collins: I, again, I think this is you believing what people are saying to you with a kind face and not, if you look at what they say behind the scenes, and I will post a clip here of the leading female antinatalist, like, in the world, what does she say?

She says, if I could press a button, and it would kill all humans today, even if it meant they had to die by being skinned alive, I would still press that button.

Yeah, so, look, in the interest of the end, if you could end suffering tomorrow, yeah, probably anything is justifiable. Inflicting just about anything is probably justifiable, imposing just about anything is probably justifiable, if you can end it. If you, if there's literally, [00:15:00] you can guarantee no more ouch ever again, then there probably isn't.

a big enough out you could make that wouldn't be justified in the interest of that end, probably by any means necessary. Like if I found out tomorrow that the only way that you could, that sentient extinction could possibly happen was skinning all the living things alive slowly. I'd hate it, um, but I would probably, I would say that it's what we have to do.

I'm totally I'm totally on board with the idea that the only thing that really matters is the suffering coming to a finality. So, yeah, anything in the interest of that, if you can guarantee that, even despite whatever imposition or nastiness might be necessary.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. [00:16:00] You, you, they, when they're talking to you, they're in nice mode, Simone. People aren't naturally confrontational with other people. And I think that you, because you have such this

Simone Collins: Well then why? Why, when people are kidnapping other people, don't they just go like Little miss, why don't you just step into this car, please?

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I don't know. I think kidnappers are actually nicer to their victims than you would think, especially after they've been with the kidnapper for a while. This is how you get things like the John Burnett Ramsey, I want to say what's her name? Is that

Simone Collins: John Burnett Ramsey? I'm sorry.

Malcolm Collins: No, it's the chain.

Childhood. Is

Simone Collins: it Katie Hurst? Stockholm

Malcolm Collins: Syndrome. No! Stockholm! Oh my God, this bothers me so much. Oh,

Simone Collins: you're thinking about Hurst. Yes. Yes. You're thinking about Hurst. Yeah. Hurst

Malcolm Collins: is a real example of what is called Stockholm Syndrome. I know. Yeah.

Simone Collins: However,

Malcolm Collins: Stockholm Syndrome the event in Stockholm that people attribute to Stockholm Syndrome is not a real example of Stockholm Syndrome.[00:17:00]

Really? No. Yes, the cops really were trying to get the, the people killed. Like, if you, if you watch it as an outsider the, the cops really did not care about the lives of the people who were in the hostage situation. They did almost get them killed. And the people in the hostage situation had every right to be identifying with their Hostage takers over the police.

That's interesting. Hurst is a very different situation. She actually did just decide to join this, this psychopathic kidnapper. Maybe he was hot. I don't remember how we Well,

Simone Collins: Actually, I'm gonna look him up. Hurst.

Malcolm Collins: Kidnapper? Oh my god. Because, well, I mean, with this women, Cause I don't know,

Simone Collins: like, I don't know if, if Stockholm Syndrome can't be a thing.

If it was a really hot kidnapper. Right.

Why are there not images coming up of him right away? It's just her. I want to see him. This is so

Malcolm Collins: lame. I wonder how many women would be like, would also have this thought like, well, if he [00:18:00] was hot enough.

Simone Collins: But seriously, like then it doesn't count. It was just like a hot, powerful guy. Of course, she's going to go for him anyway.

I can't find pictures. So

Malcolm Collins: anyway, so, you are fantastic, man. I love it. But I, I find this really. Interesting, and I think it tells us a lot about the antinatalist movement, because, you know, I have that one video where I go through and I'm reading, like, antinatalist subreddits, and they're talking about how we need to kill everyone, and how we and you here, of course, as an outsider, are like, oh, they can't possibly mean that, right?

Because a psychologically sound person wouldn't think like that. And so here you are thinking that, right? These are psychologically. And keep in mind, like, psychopaths are very good at being affable with other people. This is how serial killers work, right? Like, you're here being like, Oh, but the, the clown man was so nice, you know, he, he performed in our kids.

He can't possibly [00:19:00] be the serial killer. And whereas what you're antinatalist community is what could essentially be thought of as a, Okay. Community of serial killers, basically. That has gotten together and is sharing ideas with each other. And I think that when you take into account, and this is why, like if you look at our video Logically Arguing Against Antinatalism, and our points, I think, are just rock solid.

I think if it was really logic that was driving them to this perception, that that video would have persuaded far more of them to deconvert from antinatalism than it did. I do not think it is logic. I think it is justification justification of something they want to believe. And so they go at it and they're like, how can I make this belief system justifiable for myself?

But I do not think that antinatalism is a belief system that is ever reached by logic. Because the logical arguments just aren't very good. Like the, asymmetry argument is garbage. And again, you can watch our video on this. Well, and antinatalists also seem to [00:20:00] have trouble engaging with logical arguments.

So here's an example.

Simone Collins: I feel like all they ever do is engage in, at least performatively, logical arguments. Yeah, but that's

Malcolm Collins: the thing. Formatively logical arguments that are very bad. So you had an anti natalist reach out to you and you got so annoyed by it because it was just such a bad argument. He goes like, well, what's the difference between giving births to someone and going up behind them and injecting them with drugs.

Right. And you're like, well, consent. And he's like, what? But the person didn't consent to be born. And it's like, yeah, but they can end their lives whenever they want. And then he's basically like, yeah, but I don't want to deal with that. That's basically the response to you can end your life whenever you want within the antinatalist community is, wait, you're saying I have to take personal responsibility for my actions as they relate to myself?

And it's like, yes, yes, you do.

 What are you waiting for, huh? [00:21:00] What are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? What am I waiting for? What am I waiting for? What are you waiting for? F**k you!

Oh my god!

Malcolm Collins: Like the level of narcissistic sociopathy that would deny life to another person. Who would want to live just because you personally would prefer to kill yourself, but don't want to take the responsibility of killing yourself. To me, it's just this insane level of sociopathy.

Um, which, which is very surprising to me that like, and then, well, Not surprising to me. These studies helped me understand why we have such trouble getting through to the antinatalist community with logical arguments. Because it was never based on logic to begin with. It was always a psychiatric condition.

But a dangerous and common [00:22:00] psychiatric condition within the urban monoculture. Yeah, but at the

Simone Collins: same time, like, this is, this both sounds very dire, but also in the end could be very hopeful, assuming that these people don't change their stance and have a ton of kids, because then this is just a selective pressure against.

Yeah, dark triad traits that are, that are not pro social, that are not on the whole good for society. So, I mean, yay, isn't it fortunate that a lot of people with dark triad traits are also going to be. Self

Malcolm Collins: sterilizing. Yeah! I mean Well, actually, so this gets more interesting than the point that you're making, and I want to elaborate on the concept.

Um, so, I also think that child support has done a lot to promote the reduction of dark triad traits.

Simone Collins: So Oh, because you can't just, like, get a woman pregnant and, like, walk away and not have to worry about it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so historically if you look at women there is some attraction to dark triad personality traits as you were talking about with the kidnapper thing, right?

Like, powerful men with dark [00:23:00] triad personality traits in a historical context were more attractive to women who wanted random flings. And the red pill

Simone Collins: will never let you forget

Malcolm Collins: it. Right. No, it's not useful, like, It's not a useful genetic strategy for a male, particularly these days. And somebody's like, well, what do you mean by that?

It's because the women who will allow you to sleep with them if they're like, not interested in marrying you, are typically the low caliber women of both intellectually, attractiveness, and other genetic qualities wise. And, and then the high caliber women, they have a reason to be much more selective about this.

So even when they are getting pregnant, they're typically selecting the sperm donor based on traits like pro sociality. But if you're talking about, and this is, by the way when women select sperm donors, pro sociality is one of the core traits they look for in research. This is like a well studied thing.

But if you are one of these men who just like sleeps around. And you have this Machiavellianism, and narcissism, and, and, and sociopathy, other, other drug triad traits [00:24:00] you, because you just genuinely don't care about other people, or the world, or your potential kids you are not interested in getting other people pregnant.

Because now there is huge negative consequences to you due to child support, at least insofar as you are to any extent successful. Now, if you are a very low genetic quality male, there's not as much risk to you. So I think that these men are still sleeping around and within these communities, dark triad personality traits will persist.

But what we're seeing now is among the many partner strategy that used to keep these traits stable was in populations. There is much less reason for these individuals to breed. And even within these people who might have now turned to more monogamous relationships and stuff like that, which are now joining the anti natalist movement.

They're also being selected out of the population, which to me leads me to believe that future human populations are going to be. dramatically more pro social and and more empathetic than human populations in the world today. Interesting.

Simone Collins: Very interesting. But

Malcolm Collins: [00:25:00] also, if people know our other research on, on, on genetic selection, they're also going to be much more tribalistic and much more xenophobic.

So basically you're going to have affable religious people who are very nice to anyone who they see as a cultural ally or within their community, and that who wants to kill everyone else in the world. Um,

Simone Collins: well, I mean.

Malcolm Collins: Bad. Well, I mean, so do you have any thoughts on these studies? Cause I, I mean, I was really surprised. This is not, you know, I genuinely didn't expect. It's surprising

Simone Collins: because most people.

refer to pronatalists as narcissists. Like, Oh, you're just trying to spam the world with your children. Right. That's the constant accusation that we see for anyone who has a lot of kids. Oh, you're just so obsessed with yourself that you just, you

Malcolm Collins: know,

PROJECTION!

Simone Collins:

So yeah, it, it is a little surprising also because a really common way in which people hear about [00:26:00] narcissistic individuals is in the context of like narcissistic parents who are really damaging to the lives of their children. So you just, I don't know, like, I think it's, it's much more common in someone's evoked set to think about narcissists and like of self obsessed people as being more likely to be a parent, which is.

Surprising, but

Malcolm Collins: well, that's something I would encourage if people doubt this or are interested in learning about the antinatalist community. Genuinely, just look up their YouTube channels watch them talk for a bit. And I'd suggest if you have a good ability at reading people watch their eyes and watch their micro expressions in face.

So I am micro

Simone Collins: expressions were largely debunked.

Malcolm Collins: So. It kind of, I, I, People who are very good at reading other people typically rely on these sorts of expressions, but I don't know if they can be scientifically studied very easily.

But as our audience may know, if they don't, is you are clinically autistic. You are very, [00:27:00] very, very bad at reading people. You just are like, are they nice to me or are they mean to me? And what are they saying? If they're nice to me and saying something, then they must be being honest. Whereas I am very, very good at reading people to like an insane amount.

I, too much, too much. It's painful to you. It's painful to me how good I am at reading people. Yeah. Well, because I have a really high amount of empathy and it does. Oh my God.

Simone Collins: You're like Edward Cullen in twilight where you just keep hearing everyone's. Thoughts and you're like, no, and I am like, what's her face?

That Bapid girl who you can't read my thoughts because I don't have any. And you're like, Oh, this is so refreshing.

Malcolm Collins: I will actually say that it has been a major part of our relationship is that I am very, very, very good at reading people. And because of that, I can genuinely or not genuinely but generally tell when somebody is, manipulating me or attempting to manipulate me. And I think that that's actually pretty common for females in, in [00:28:00] relationships.

Simone Collins: Well, and I think also it's very mentally taxing for you to keep modeling people when they behave

Malcolm Collins: like that. Yeah, yeah. So I have to, you know, when they're in a fight or they're being pissy, I have to constantly model them and I find it very mentally taxing.

I never have to model you. You are just a complete blank. You are who you are in public. In private, there is never a hidden agenda. Um, uh, and when there is a hidden agenda, it's like for five seconds, and then you crack up laughing and just tell me whatever it is. Like you, you are incapable of doing that.

Did I ever do

Simone Collins: something with hidden?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, I think it's funny. Sometimes my family is like, well, can't you, she must be hiding something like people don't act like that. And I'm like, no, genuinely, like, if you understand her, you'd understand it is, it is an anathema to her character. There is nothing underneath.

But if you go out and you watch these anti natalist channels as somebody who's good at reading people, or if you are good at reading people. It's, it's actually kind of obvious in hindsight that they feel this way. You, there is no anti natalist channel where people are [00:29:00] like on our channel laughing a lot, affable to each other, right?

Like that seem to genuinely get pleasure out of life. Everything is very calculated and cold and dehumanizing of anyone who is not themselves. Anyway, Simone, I love you and fun episode. And again, I'm always grateful to our enemies to allow me to know I have made the right choices in life to align myself with people who are nice to me and, and generally don't try to tear me down.

Because the pronatalist community is overwhelmingly nice except for one guy. But he doesn't go to the conferences and nobody really talks to him and everyone hates him.

Simone Collins: Not everyone hates him. They just all recognize that he's a curmudgeon. That's all. That's a great sound.

Malcolm Collins: I adore you. I adore

Simone Collins: you, Malcolm.

And I love that you find these things. And talking with you is just way too much fun. It's like a complete highlight of my life. So, [00:30:00] thank

Malcolm Collins: you for You're a highlight of my life. And I am so excited for dinner with you tonight. Oh

Simone Collins: gosh, I'm thinking about it already. Ugh. But, let's talk more. I love you though.

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