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Crypto is moving past speculation — and into the battle for mass adoption.

In this episode, Phantom CEO Brandon Millman and Pudgy Penguins CEO Luca Netz join Unchained to debate who will own the next hundred million users. Will it be product-led startups, Web2 giants like X and Meta, or crypto-native apps like Phantom? From payments to trading wars to the “everything app” dream, they unpack where the real value will accrue — and why the easy money era for entrepreneurs is over.

Thank you to the sponsors who make this show possible!

• Re 
• Mantle

Guests:

• Brandon Millman, CEO and co-founder of Phantom
• Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

🚧 3:34 Why Brandon still thinks it’s a great time to build in crypto

⚡ 5:55 How Luca sees this moment as an “inflection point” for the industry

👥 9:36 What Brandon and Luca’s personal journeys reveal about building in Web3

🌍 18:07 Who’s best positioned to onboard the next wave of users into crypto

💸 25:05 How distribution is key and why Luca desperately wants to invest in Phantom 😀

💳 37:00 Who might win the payments race and what gives them the edge

📱 51:26 Whether Solana’s Seeker phone has any real shot at breaking through

🔗 58:32 How Robinhood might use Privy and Bridge to dominate the crypto stack

⚔️ 1:01:17 What the new crypto trading wars say about Robinhood, Coinbase, and Kraken

🤔 1:06:05 Whether Coinbase lacks a good product team

📲 1:10:36 Whether the “everything app” dream actually makes sense

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