Vox's Andrew Prokop says the vice-presidential debate between Tim Walz and JD Vance was about policy, but in a weird way. Professor and pollster Dan Cassino explains how these two men represent the future of American masculinity.

This episode was produced by Miles Bryan and Hady Mawajdeh, edited by Matt Collette, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Andrea Kristinsdottir and Rob Byers, and hosted by Sean Rameswaram and Noel King.

Transcript at vox.com/today-explained-podcast

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Photo by Michele Crowe/CBS via Getty Images.

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