In this episode, I spoke with Joe Martin, a musician from the UK who is pioneeering how artists can leverage value-for-value and Bitcoin to connect directly with fans and take power back from record labels and platforms like Spotify. Joe gets into the details of how value-for-value has worked for him, where the pain points are, what the response has been from fans, and a lot more. At one point, Joe compares being a value-for-value artist to being a street performer, which stuck in my head since this podcast is also supported by value-for-value on podcasting 2.0 apps like Fountain.

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Timestamps

(0:53) Joe's background and how he got into music as well as value-for-value

(8:05) How the standard artist business model works today

(10:27) What does a record label bring to an artist?

(14:47) Why Joe believes we're at the start of a shift that will favor independent artists

(17:04) How streaming economics work for an independent artist and why it's usually a "loss leader" to get people to come to shows and buy merch

(20:50) The similarities between being an author and an artist. Cost effectiveness of printing books and printing t-shirts

(24:30) How Joe thinks about value-for-value, both in general and for himself as an artist

(28:55) Why nothing in life is free - you pay one way or the other

(31:47) Why people are already fine paying for a physical product like an album but there's a mental gap when buying a digital version of the same music

(33:17) How Bitcoin relates to value-for-value and makes it possible

(38:30) Joe's experience with value-for-value and how it has affected his career so far. How he made more in 7 days than he made in 7 years from streaming

(50:15) The psychology behind getting people into value-for-value music

(52:00) Incentivizing listeners to take actions like making clips or sharing music using value-for-value

(53:05) The best resources for a creator to get started with value-for-value

Links and Resources

Joe's Twitter

Joe's website

Joe's introduction to value-for-value

Kevin Rooke interviewing Joe Martin

Joe's new album Empty Passenger Seat

Joe's tour dates

Wavlake, a value-for-value music platform

Outside The System episode with Lyrah, another independent musician experimenting with new business models