Cleo Abram left Vox and started her YouTube show, Huge If True, 3 years ago. Since then, the channel has grown to nearly 6 million subscribers and she’s become one of the most important tech journalists in the world. This week, Ben and Max talk to Cleo about why she started an optimistic show in an age of pessimism, the time she got space-sick in zero gravity, and how she navigates conversations with tech titans like Mark Zuckerberg and Jensen Huang.

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