S16 E32: Bitcoin vs Monero vs Zcash Privacy with Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski of Cypher Stack
Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski are working to build Cypher Space: a privacy & sovereignty company. In this episode, they compare + rate the privacy of Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Firo, Mimble Wimble (Litecoin, Grin), Zano & Beam.
Time stamps:
(00:00:59) Introducing Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski
(00:02:04) Tribalism and Privacy Protocols in Crypto
(00:03:55) Why Privacy Matters & Personal Motivations
(00:04:58) Diego’s Background and Cypher Stack
(00:06:58) Luke’s Background and Mathematical Perspective
(00:08:40) CoinJoin and the Limits of Bitcoin Privacy
(00:09:10) Threat Models and Privacy Tool Selection
(00:12:22) CoinJoin’s Effectiveness and Metadata Attacks
(00:14:18) Comparing CoinJoin to Tor/VPN Usage
(00:17:26) Overconfidence and Under-Researched Privacy Claims
(00:19:52) Levels of Privacy and User Education
(00:24:31) Defining Adversaries in Privacy Research
(00:26:10) CoinJoin’s Real-World Threats and Research Gaps
(00:27:17) Social Media, Nuance, and Privacy Debates
(00:29:11) CoinJoin as “Add-On” Privacy and Side-Channel Attacks
(00:31:46) Underestimating Adversaries and Attack Tools
(00:38:37) Sponsor Plugs and Criteria for Privacy Evaluation
(00:42:47) Scoring CoinJoin on Privacy Criteria
(00:51:09) WabiSabi and Wasabi Wallet Improvements
(00:59:29) Other Bitcoin Privacy Tools: BIP47 & Silent Payments
(01:06:19) Human Error and Privacy Tool Usability
(01:08:51) The Limits of Privacy Ratings and the Need for Nuance
(01:12:19) Tribalism, Community Research, and Productive Debate
(01:15:33) Non-Interactive Proofs and Security Assumptions
(01:16:27) Bitcoin Maximalism and the Limits of Debate
(01:17:34) Academic Rigor and the Need for More Research
(01:20:01) Bitcoin’s Privacy Risks if Mainstream Adoption Happens
(01:21:44) The State of Bitcoin Privacy Research and Funding
(01:34:03) Bitcoin’s Missed Privacy Opportunities
(01:37:14) Monero’s History and Privacy Technologies
(01:41:03) Monero’s Anonymity Set and Privacy Trade-Offs
(01:46:52) Monero’s Current Weaknesses and Upcoming FCMP
(01:55:24) Monero’s Privacy Scores and Scalability
(02:27:50) Zcash: History, Community, and Technology
(03:00:29) Zcash’s Privacy Model and Accumulator Approach
(03:05:56) Zero-Knowledge Proofs Explained
(03:20:08) Zcash’s Privacy Scores and Tachyon Scalability
(03:35:12) Firo (formerly Zcoin) and Spark Protocol
(03:44:45) Firo’s Privacy Scores and Future Upgrades
(03:52:06) Litecoin MWEB and Mimblewimble
(04:01:32) MWEB Privacy Scores and Limitations
(04:07:03) Other Privacy Projects: Zano, Beam, Salvium
(04:10:02) Toxicity, Community, and the Human Element
(04:17:00) Philosophy of Privacy and Human Nature
(04:24:28) Fungibility, Bitcoin, and Social Realities
(04:44:15) Summary and Chart of Privacy Scores
(04:57:52) Resources for Privacy Research and Final Thoughts
Time stamps:
(00:00:59) Introducing Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski
(00:02:04) Tribalism and Privacy Protocols in Crypto
(00:03:55) Why Privacy Matters & Personal Motivations
(00:04:58) Diego’s Background and Cypher Stack
(00:06:58) Luke’s Background and Mathematical Perspective
(00:08:40) CoinJoin and the Limits of Bitcoin Privacy
(00:09:10) Threat Models and Privacy Tool Selection
(00:12:22) CoinJoin’s Effectiveness and Metadata Attacks
(00:14:18) Comparing CoinJoin to Tor/VPN Usage
(00:17:26) Overconfidence and Under-Researched Privacy Claims
(00:19:52) Levels of Privacy and User Education
(00:24:31) Defining Adversaries in Privacy Research
(00:26:10) CoinJoin’s Real-World Threats and Research Gaps
(00:27:17) Social Media, Nuance, and Privacy Debates
(00:29:11) CoinJoin as “Add-On” Privacy and Side-Channel Attacks
(00:31:46) Underestimating Adversaries and Attack Tools
(00:38:37) Sponsor Plugs and Criteria for Privacy Evaluation
(00:42:47) Scoring CoinJoin on Privacy Criteria
(00:51:09) WabiSabi and Wasabi Wallet Improvements
(00:59:29) Other Bitcoin Privacy Tools: BIP47 & Silent Payments
(01:06:19) Human Error and Privacy Tool Usability
(01:08:51) The Limits of Privacy Ratings and the Need for Nuance
(01:12:19) Tribalism, Community Research, and Productive Debate
(01:15:33) Non-Interactive Proofs and Security Assumptions
(01:16:27) Bitcoin Maximalism and the Limits of Debate
(01:17:34) Academic Rigor and the Need for More Research
(01:20:01) Bitcoin’s Privacy Risks if Mainstream Adoption Happens
(01:21:44) The State of Bitcoin Privacy Research and Funding
(01:34:03) Bitcoin’s Missed Privacy Opportunities
(01:37:14) Monero’s History and Privacy Technologies
(01:41:03) Monero’s Anonymity Set and Privacy Trade-Offs
(01:46:52) Monero’s Current Weaknesses and Upcoming FCMP
(01:55:24) Monero’s Privacy Scores and Scalability
(02:27:50) Zcash: History, Community, and Technology
(03:00:29) Zcash’s Privacy Model and Accumulator Approach
(03:05:56) Zero-Knowledge Proofs Explained
(03:20:08) Zcash’s Privacy Scores and Tachyon Scalability
(03:35:12) Firo (formerly Zcoin) and Spark Protocol
(03:44:45) Firo’s Privacy Scores and Future Upgrades
(03:52:06) Litecoin MWEB and Mimblewimble
(04:01:32) MWEB Privacy Scores and Limitations
(04:07:03) Other Privacy Projects: Zano, Beam, Salvium
(04:10:02) Toxicity, Community, and the Human Element
(04:17:00) Philosophy of Privacy and Human Nature
(04:24:28) Fungibility, Bitcoin, and Social Realities
(04:44:15) Summary and Chart of Privacy Scores
(04:57:52) Resources for Privacy Research and Final Thoughts
Activity