“How do you get out of this? How do you separate yourself from your government today? How do you protect your wealth and your ability to provide for your family today?”
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Timothy Allen speaks with Mikkel Thorup.
Mikkel is a long-time expat, offshore consultant, and founder of Expat Money. He has spent over 25 years living outside his country of birth, traveled to more than 120 countries, and works directly with families, entrepreneurs, and high earners looking to reduce friction with the systems they live under.
What begins with travel stories from Central Asia and reflections on cultural psychology quickly expands into a deeper conversation about freedom, perspective, and trade-offs. Mikkel challenges Western assumptions about liberty, compares overt and hidden forms of control, and argues that many people do not actually want freedom once responsibility enters the picture.
From China and the Middle East to Panama and Latin America, the discussion maps where real-world freedom is increasing, where it is quietly disappearing, and why jurisdictions with territorial tax systems and diversified revenue models are becoming magnets for mobile families. Along the way, Mikkel explains why Panama functions as a de facto city-state, how offshore structures really work in practice, and why physical communities matter more than online movements alone.
The second half of the conversation moves into harder territory: public education, UBI, loss of purpose, and why meaning, struggle, and family remain central even in a world of optionality. Rather than offering slogans or hacks, the episode stays grounded in lived experience, trade-offs, and personal responsibility.
Enjoy the conversation.
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SHOW SPONSOR: Veritas Villages: https://www.veritasvillages.com/freecities
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Veritas Villages are building off-grid, energy self-sufficient communities for freedom lovers in Latin America. Bitcoin is accepted at all villages, including for the purchase of property.
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Previous interviews with Patrick Hiebert, Founder of Veritas Villages:
EP 156: https://fountain.fm/episode/66NqAclTBh7FByIX7lCq
EP 107: https://fountain.fm/episode/Fh6uGwZvVtPsYsR53pTI
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- Free Cities Telegram Community: https://t.me/+im6c6r4jQkUzMjU0
- Free Cities Conference: https://freecitiesconference.com/
- Free Cities Foundation Newsletter: https://free-cities.org/subscribe
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TIMESTAMPS (Audio Version Only)
- 0:00:00 – Episode introduction
- 0:07:36 – Start of Conversation
- 0:10:12 – Do Humans Actually Want Freedom?
- 0:12:41 – China, The West, And Trade-Offs In Freedom
- 0:15:15 – “China Is Honest, The West Hides Control”
- 0:20:59 – Why Panama Works As A Freedom Hub
- 0:23:46 – How Panama Funds Itself Without Heavy Taxation
- 0:26:15 – Politics, Elections, And Why Socialism Doesn’t Take Root
- 0:28:33 – Veritas Villages And Physical Communities
- 0:31:14 – Dropping Out Of School And Rejecting State Education
- 0:36:15 – The Arctic, Meaninglessness, And UBI As A Warning
- 0:40:18 – Showing Alternatives Instead Of Fixing Broken Systems
- 0:46:20 – Physical Communities Vs Countries On The Internet
- 0:50:12 – Freedom Of Movement After Lockdowns
- 0:53:14 – Who Is Moving To Latin America And Why
- 0:56:16 – Early Retirement, Purpose, And Human Flourishing
- 0:59:26 – Enthusiasm, Mission, And Life Direction
- 1:01:36 – Bitcoin In Panama And Legal Reality
- 1:04:09 – Panama As A De Facto City-State
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NOSTR:
- Timothy Allen: npub1gcf9ltaeu42f4tr20z3avkas04dezlx3jaudqsuu87gvmh686xasrvqjg0
- Free Cities Foundation: npub1lsj8pmgedqqamt89c27tzjjnlf0wn7q7udjm7j2cl9xxz97eacns2mwpee
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LEGACY SOCIAL MEDIA:
- Mikkel Thorup: https://x.com/ThorupMikkel
- Timothy Allen: https://twitter.com/MrTimothyAllen
- Free Cities Foundation: https://twitter.com/freecitiesfound
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OTHER LINKS:
- Expat Money: https://expatmoney.com
- Veritas Villages: https://www.veritasvillages.com/freecities
- Free Cities Foundation: https://free-cities.org/
- Become a resident or business owner in Próspera: https://prospera.co/r/freecities