In this Upstream Conversation we spoke with scholar and activist Trebor Scholz, who is an Associate Professor of Culture & Media at the New School for Liberal Arts & co-editor of the book, Ours to Hack and to Own: The Rise of Platform Cooperativism, a New Vision for the Future of Work and a Fairer Internet. Trebor has a very wide breadth of knowledge in the field of digital labor, and is able to articulate a very strong critique of the modern day digital landscape. He walks us through how the internet has hit rock bottom, exemplified as it is these days by extreme power concentration, high levels of worker exploitation, and a lack of privacy. But Trebor is also able to draw a very compelling picture of how things could be different. What would #Uber look like if it had cooperative values? What if residents owned #Airbnb? And what role might a universal basic income play in the near future? Darkness and uncertainty loom ahead. Trebor's insights are a flash of light that illuminate and begin to guide us through these tumultuous times. This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.