Jon Ritner, from Ecclesia, a church in Hollywood CA, joins Jonny to talk about the impact of our post-Christian culture on how we approach ministry in 2022 America. Jon's book, Positively Irritating: Embracing a Post-Christian World to Form a More Faithful and Innovative Church, came out in 2020 and is exactly about what the subtitle says!

Jonny and Jon talk at length about that, and pastoral burnout from the last two years. But, they open up with a great story - while they pastor in churches 2,000 miles apart, they were both impacted personally by the same person, and have never known each other. It's a great story! Jeff is absent except for the intro, so make sure to listen to his segment, or he'll feel bad! But he also shares some keys to truly appreciating this episode.