This week, guest host Danny Lavery talks with self-appointed lesbian pop culture expert Kira Deshler to dive into the lively queer subculture within the Taylor Swift fandom, and their quest to liberate her. From there they explore the relationship between queer fans and their often straight pop icons.

Songs mentioned:

Tim I Wish You Were Born a Girl by Of Montreal

Pink Triangle by Weezer 

Johnny Are You Queer? By Josie Cotton

Email us at: outwardpodcast@slate.com

Podcast production by Palace Shaw. 

Outward is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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