San Francisco is all but short-hand for “liberal American city,” but their progressive district attorney Chesa Boudin just got booted from office in a not-so-close recall. Elected as part of a wave of progressive prosecutors, why is Boudin now out, while his reformer-minded peers remain popular? And what does it mean for criminal justice reform in America? Guest: Jessica Brand,founder and co-director of the Wren Collective, a consulting service focused on transforming the criminal justice system.If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get benefits like zero ads on any Slate podcast, bonus episodes of shows like Slow Burn and Dear Prudence—and you’ll be supporting the work we do here on What Next. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices