In this eye-opening discussion, Malcolm and Simone delve into the fascinating world of paraphilias, more commonly known as fetishes. They explore how these seemingly unusual attractions can provide insights into human neurology and evolutionary conditions. The couple examines the prevalence of "monster girl" fetishes across various cultures and historical contexts, and how they relate to super stimuli and innate disgust responses. Malcolm and Simone also discuss how certain physical traits, such as hair and eye color, may have evolved due to extreme mate selection in specific populations. Throughout the conversation, they emphasize the importance of understanding and contextualizing one's own sexuality to avoid shame, addiction, and harmful behaviors. Join them for this thought-provoking and educational discussion on the complexities of human sexuality.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, gorgeous. Hello, Simone. So this is the subject that I particularly find interesting. And a lot of people are surprised. They're like, why are you interested in obscure paraphilias, which are more commonly known in the public as fetishes? And the answer is, is because it tells us a lot about human neurology, human evolutionary conditions, and the way humans think more broadly.

And people might be like, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean by that? Right? So if you see an impulse that exists across a broad breadth of the human population, but doesn't appear like it would have been selected for in an evolutionary context, like it wouldn't have increased the number of surviving offspring they had, you have found One of two things.

Either you have shown that you misunderstand the [00:01:00] environmental context that humanity evolved in and that something that seems like it would have been a maladaptive behavior was actually a positive behavior, which is very interesting if you find that but then the other. thing that you may have found is you have found a way that the brain essentially breaks or a pathway doesn't work correctly, but doesn't work correctly in a way that happens over and over and over again in different humans, which tells you something about like if trains keep flying onto a road at a certain point you can tell broadly, at least in one area.

Where a train track is likely supposed to be and like the speed of trains on that train tracks and where trains are turning on that train track. Now, this becomes especially interesting in the world of fetishes and paraphilias. Because this is a very common area where you see something [00:02:00] that is very clearly a hard coded biological instinct in individuals. Cross culturally

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: , people will say, Oh no, well this is all like modern internet stuff that's causing this. And we'll get into that argument in a second. Well, I can get into it right now. It's just very obviously not. If you look in a historic context most of the paraphilias you see today, like sadism and stuff like that, you're going to see in like the Marquis de Sade, for example, which was definitely in a pre internet context, or you see in the British vice, which was a so common a fetish among British people.

They called it the British vice, which was men who liked being spanked by battles by women.

Here is James Joyce writing about farts. Big fat fellows, long windy ones, quick little Mary cracks, and a lot of tiny little naughty forties ending in a large gush from your whole

I think I could pick hers out in a room full of flirting women. It is a rather girlish noise, not like the wet, windy fart, which I imagine fat [00:03:00] wives have. It is sudden and dry and dirty. Like a bold girl would let off in fund in a school dormitory at night. I hope Nora will let off no end of her farts in my face. So that I may know with her smell also, so people will be like, oh yeah, Weird stuff like farting pouring that that's like from weird Brazilian.

No. It was around the time of James Joyce.

Malcolm Collins: So, if you see a fetish today, you will. That is common. You will almost always see it in a historic context. And today we are going to discuss the concept of Monster Girls because Monster Girls and Monster Boys are something that you see pretty frequently in pornography.

And Hint High. However, it is also something. That, like, doesn't really make sense from an evolutionary context. Why would you be attracted to something that's not human? And a person can go, Oh, come on, this doesn't appear in historic [00:04:00] stuff. And I'm like are you not familiar with your Greek myths?

How seriously talk about like the plurality of sex that happens in Greek myths, the swans, the cows, I would say like a good hat or various monstrous creatures or height. Yeah. Or people are like, wow, but it didn't happen in the medieval period.

And I'm like, you are clearly not familiar with medieval fairy tales or medieval sort of folk horrors.

You know, it was actually folk horrors. Folk horrors. Incubuses, succubuses, stuff like that. They didn't look like humans. They'd have like, various animal body parts and stuff like that. And people will be like, okay, well, how common is this stuff really? So if you look at like. Oh yeah, like the

Simone Collins: folklore.

Like marrying a mermaid and a seal woman or whatever. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So when we did stats on this vampires 21 percent of females consume erotic content, tied to the 7 percent of males werewolves, 14 percent of females, [00:05:00] 2 percent of males. An Android 7 percent of females, 8 percent of males, an alien, 13 percent of females, 8 percent of males, a dwarf, the fictional race, 8 percent of females, 7 percent of males, a dwarf, the fictional race, 2 percent of females.

Four 8% of males, goo people 2% of females, 4% of males. It's a deep cut furries, 5% of each half human, half animals 7% fe females, 4% males 7%.

Simone Collins: I mean, wow. Yeah. So we talking half like a horse. What are they called? Horsemen or half of them? Yeah. So

Malcolm Collins: if you're like, Oh, well, that's a small number.

Well, if you contrast those numbers with the numbers who, for example, consume erotic content with two men having sex, that's 21 percent of females and 7 percent of males. Yeah. So it's about as common as watching, for example gay male porn. You know, I

Simone Collins: don't know, like [00:06:00] there in this, we should probably someday do a whole deep dive on.

The genre of yaoi in Japan too, and yaoi is

Malcolm Collins: boy love stuff, which is, and you can see what I think would surprise people is the majority of people consume, consuming man on man porn are women, by more than double.

Simone Collins: This is both straight and lesbian identifying women. Of course, we argue that women don't really exist on the Kinsey scale.

They exist on a dominant submission scale.

Malcolm Collins: But people can look at our book on sexuality if they want to read more on this. But this brings us back to the question of monster women, right? What could be causing this? So you can come up with a few hypotheses. Maybe this was about and this is sort of how science is done, right?

Like if people were like, how do you do sort of gentleman science in your book? So you could say, Well, maybe it's correlated with like a village was raided or something like that. And so you would [00:07:00] see the Raiders as monstrous, but need to be attracted to them to be able to survive the raid. Right. And it's like, well, if that's the case, then you are likely to see two things.

One is a cross correlation between this and masochism. And this is more prominent dramatically in females than males. But this does not explain, therefore, monster girls. Well, no, it could explain, but the problem is if monster boys were more common than monster girls, this would explain that. Exactly.

The problem is that that's not what you see outside of something like vampires, but vampires don't really look particularly different from humans. And so they probably falls more into just pure dominance.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Which

Malcolm Collins: would fit into this system, but you don't see the cross correlation between these attractiveness and other attractiveness.

So then you're like, okay, okay, okay. Great. Back to the drawing board. Well, let's look at some other things that appear where a human [00:08:00] appears to have non. human body proportions. Okay. Oh, like really tiny women and really big women, really tiny women, or it could be women with giant breasts. Disproportionate.

So, let's see if I can find that on the chart here. Okay. So, well, a good example here would be a giant penis longer than two feet, 7 percent of women, 4 percent of men, giant breasts larger than a quarter of total body weight, 4 percent of women, and 17 percent of men. So wait,

Simone Collins: so normally I'm 120.

Jesus! That's a lot!

Malcolm Collins: These are like, these are impossible for a normal human to have. Ugh. Well, people have gotten plastic surgery to do it. Surgically implanted, but they don't, when women have that, they do not look human, they look deformed. Yeah. To a, to a, a normal person, but 17 percent of men are still consuming this, this content.

So what, or, or you could say people who are you know, amputees and stuff like that or [00:09:00] in some other way don't look like a normal human would look. But

Simone Collins: around that, didn't you argue in the book that this is more of a super stimulus thing? We'll get to that. We'll get

Malcolm Collins: that concept in a second. I'm just describing hypotheses here.

So you actually do find a cross correlation here, and we didn't just find this cross correlation in our data. When Ayla ran the stats with a completely different data pool, she also found this cross correlation here. So this, verifies this hypothesis that there is something where some humans have a looser bound on the human form when they find it attractive.

So let's talk about how this could work and how we can verify if this is the way that it's working. Okay. So super stimuli are a very important concept when you are studying sexuality. Okay. So a super stimuli is like if you have a bird that evolved to sit on blue eggs, but there were never like giant blue rocks around its evolutionary environment.

It never had a pressure to not sit on [00:10:00] Something that was larger than its normal blue eggs or bluer than its normal blue eggs. And so if you put a giant blue rock next to it, it will always choose the rock over its own eggs. This is just a very common thing you see throughout evolutionary biology.

And it like makes sense as to why this would be a thing.

Simone Collins: Yeah. If, if X is good. X squared is better.

Malcolm Collins: X squared is better. Yeah. So with human sexual drives, well, males and females are both to an extent attracted to the average, like if you were going to like pre code them to breed with a thing that is likely to lead to offspring you would pre code them with look for the things that gender differentiate males and females and then target individuals who appear to have these traits.

These would be secondary sex characteristics. So with women, these would be breasts, butt, hips. With men, this would be Height you know, the male stature triangle mask. Yeah. Et cetera. So, and, and you did a deep voice and you do [00:11:00] see an attraction to these traits, but what is more interesting is we didn't have super stimuli of these traits in our evolutionary environment.

We did not have women with super normally large breasts in our evolutionary environment.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, unless they were. You know, some genetic abnormality

Malcolm Collins: is eased in some way or something like that, right? But what I'm saying is it just didn't appear that much there was not an evolutionary reason for anyone within the population to evolve Disgust to that trait Even though I and most men actually do reflexively feel disgust When they see a woman who looks non human in For her gender dimorphic anatomy even something as, as I think some people would consider a small is like Caitlin or what's her name?

The Caitlyn Jenner's family member who has a giant, but no,

Simone Collins: they've reduced that big butts are [00:12:00] out. Heroin chic is back in. Yeah. Kim Kardashian.

Malcolm Collins: Like, I find her quite repulsive. Like, like a visceral level, I find her repulsive. I

Simone Collins: think that's cultural because you go to Miami, you see giant asses and women wearing ass padding underwear to try to create this culture affects

Malcolm Collins: what you find attractive, much less than you would think.

I could go into so much

Simone Collins: difference between the body type that you see pervasive among Higher status women or, or we'll say image conscious women in Miami versus Los Angeles for this appears to

Malcolm Collins: be an evolutionary thing. Well, okay. So I guess I can get into this cause we do go into this in our, in our books.

The core thing that differentiates. So with men, you're going to be attracted to, there's sort of two ideal feminine traits that you could be attracted to

Simone Collins: or female dimorphism.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. You could be optimizing for fertility window, or you could be optimizing for I'm absolutely certain this is a woman

Simone Collins: well,

Malcolm Collins: these two sets of optimization [00:13:00] functions actually require you to optimize around different traits because the traits that are associated with youth in women are smaller breasts and a smaller butt.

So you are, you are actually Optimizing for almost the exact opposite thing. So who optimizes within a monogamous culture for fertility windows over ensuring that the person is a woman. It is somebody who has access to high resources and love behold in our data. We see this, I mean, it's a huge difference.

We have a video where we go over this in more detail, but it's

like 10 fold or 20 fold increase in liking this you know, flat justice body type. For wealthy men versus the poorest groups have been but you also see this just, I mean, if you're looking like you don't see people like, you know, Elon or Bill Gates or something like that, dating these women who look like super, super, super feminine.

Instead the women that you see them dating. Is are [00:14:00] often very well, more androgynous

Simone Collins: looking because they were androgynous

Malcolm Collins: looking. Yeah. Whereas when you see wealthy men date these women they are wealthy men who appear to have an extreme level of status anxiety which shows that like biologically, they don't see themselves as wealthy.

Trump would be a good example of this. If you look at the way that he accessorizes and the lifestyle he lives in when he's been or something like that there is clearly a. fairly large level of status anxiety there, which is likely driving his reproductive choices that make his reproductive choices much more similar to a lower economic status.

Which

Simone Collins: ultimately made him a man of the people. He's a poor man's idea of a rich man, even in his own mind, because of that anxiety.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. So, so that's why you're getting that. Okay. But let's go back to and by the way, you can look at cross cultural. Oh

Simone Collins: s**t. Okay. So you're, you're saying that big asses are a thing in Miami because, because they're poor.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because they're poor and there's more [00:15:00] status anxiety. You see these giant butts, where do you see them in the highest. It's the deadest anxiety environments in the world, by any other way. That's

Simone Collins: interesting.

Malcolm Collins: And it's also why I think you see the PDA, you know, the PDA files appear disproportionately within elite circles.

There actually is a higher rate of PDA files in those communities, but now back to Monster Girls. Really? Yeah. So, with, with it, we appear to, humans appear to have a secondary system that overlaps their attraction system that's meant to prevent them from having sex with non human things that are non efficacious in terms of sexism could lead to diseases and blah, blah, blah, right?

So how do they determine non human things? It's likely that there is a level of innate disgust that you're Average programmed human has two things that look sufficiently different from the average human form. And this is why your average human has a level [00:16:00] of disgust to things like bestiality to think like, uh, you know, you know, extreme breast size and stuff like that.

However

Simone Collins: You could call it deformity.

Malcolm Collins: You could call it deformity. Well, it appears that certain ways of altering a body do not count or do not trigger this instinct in a large portion of the population. So first, let's talk about the, the, the huge chunk of the population, which is a fairly big chunk, that does not appear.

To have this disgust reaction,

Simone Collins: the boob guys,

Malcolm Collins: 17 percent of men who are still into enormously large boobs or what was it? Women penises over two feet.

That was, I don't

Simone Collins: understand. Okay. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: . 7 percent of women. Okay. So if you have a hundred women, seven of them will have consumed erotic material that consume this, that portray this.

So, what's going on in these. These individuals. Well, if you have any of these [00:17:00] systems in the same way that our predominant arousal system sometimes breaks, right? Like, sometimes men are predominantly aroused by male characteristics in their partners. I, gay people sometimes women are aroused by female characteristics in their partners.

Like clearly evolution. Wasn't strongly sorting for this. You know, you're, you're just getting a broken system. Sometimes individuals you know, you, you see get turned on by feces, right? Like this is clearly something that's meant to create in an evolutionary context, a disgust reaction. So what it means is there's two ways this disgust system can break.

One is it just doesn't activate at all. These are the individuals who I think are mostly into you know, generally large, but not monstrously large breasts or generally large, like the two feet penis and stuff like that, right? Like these are individuals who are interested in something that is outside the normal bounds, but isn't like specifically stimulating the system.

Then there's another thing that appears to happen in arousal patterns, which [00:18:00] is that arousal and disgust Get flipped, because we argue in great detail in our book that arousal and disgust are actually the same system. When you are aroused by something, your eyes dilate, you breathe in, you look at it longer, you want to get closer to it.

When you are disgusted by something, your pupils contra contrast, you hold your nose, or you hold your breath to not smell, and you Instinctively look away and try to get away from the thing. It's just the same system with a negative modifier. And anything that causes an innate disgust within some portion of the population will be a fetish for some other person.

And people are like, well, everything's a fetish. No, that is not true. That is just patently wrong. If you take things that don't cause disgust but are tied to other innate human impulses like a fear of heights or a fear of fire, for example there is not a community, or at least a large community consummate with the, you know, Insects or poo or, or, or farts tied to something like [00:19:00] fire arousal or falling from high locations, arousal.

So it's not just like all of your systems can break in this way. It is one system. Right. And it's the same with arousal patterns. Pretty much anything that can arousal. population is going to disgust a subset of that population. Well, you can also get an inverse system where the thing that's supposed to identify things that look inhuman ends up accidentally arousing a small portion of the population instead of disgusting them.

And this is what I think leads to full on bestiality and stuff like that. But then there's a second category here, which I would call like the cat girl phenomenon. Is a

Simone Collins: cat girl, a monster girl in this world?

Malcolm Collins: No, not exactly. I think it's arousing a different system because that what I mean is if you look at the popularity of this stuff in anime, so I would categorize, there, there are a few anatomical differences which do not appear to trigger the, this is inhuman, I now generate disgust.

Fluffy ears

Simone Collins: and tail are just cute. So

Malcolm Collins: [00:20:00] yeah, there's, there's a few that don't, don't appear to broadly generate this. Now in some humans they do, but broadly, sharp teeth don't appear to

the vampire thing is really, really big in the population. Especially

Simone Collins: if it's just the canines.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Different colored Eyes, different shaped eyes don't appear to trigger this.

Different colored hair doesn't appear to trigger this. Totally. So hair that is like anime hair. Let's, let's go there, okay? Another thing that doesn't appear to trigger it is small Cosmetic modifications such as tail, ear differences those sorts of things don't seem to broadly trigger this.

A great example, here would be elf ears slash Vulcan ears on girls.

, I have seen so many guy thirst after elf flesh, Vulcan girls.

Malcolm Collins: And then another one that's really interesting, if you're going to stretch, is Broadly, if you're dealing with a biped, with breath, or a T shaped male figure, like human, [00:21:00] female male, human secondary sex characteristics for either males or females for a large but smaller portion of the population, this also doesn't seem to trigger this monster girl.

Basically,

Simone Collins: furry, fursonas.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that fursonas I think goes a little far. Here I'm thinking more like

Lola Bunny, for example. Oh, okay. You

Simone Collins: know,

Malcolm Collins: This is something that I think is broadly, like if someone's like, I thought Lola Bunny was hot, like, you're not going to get a lot of people being like, yeah, Lola Bunny was not hot at all.

Yeah. They're like, okay, yeah, that was clearly sexualized and, and, and meant or designed to be An arousing character. So why wasn't it triggering these here? We're going back to evolution again, because we can actually see the genetic results of this arousal pattern being mainstream within specific populations.

So if you look at regions of the world, where you have a high degree of mate selection, either [00:22:00] because there were periods where all the women died pretty frequently, or even more common when all of the men died pretty frequently. But, but you see this in either area, you begin to get the evolution of monstrous traits, traits that you do not see in default human populations.

Simone Collins: Oh, because of inbreeding?

Malcolm Collins: No, because people tend to select for people with extremely novel traits. In a society with no catgirls, this shows that the catgirl might be considered uniquely attractive. In a society where nobody had, like, naturally occurring pink eyes or something like that, the one individual with pink eyes or skin or something like that might be considered uniquely attractive.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And you can say, What are you talking about, these monstrous traits that appear almost nowhere in human populations except for areas that underwent very strict genetic selection over a long period of time? Well, the reason you don't [00:23:00] notice them is the populations that had them have dominated the globe.

Oh, like redheads or something? Redheads exist all over the world. Almost nowhere, outside of extremely cold regions, where you had an ext In fact, not just redheads, any human hair color but black, is incredibly rare, if you're talking about the broad, Initial ethno groups that would have existed in the world that like would have evolved out of the initial human sample size and you go back a thousand years ago, the populations that had non black hair only lived really in Arctic regions.

Or extremely. Yeah, the world also was a lot older,

Simone Collins: to your point. Another

Malcolm Collins: trait is, and they're like, what are you talking about? Pink eyes? No one would select that you are forgetting. Very nice that all eyes, other than brown eyes are actually an incredibly rare trait. If you go a thousand years ago and [00:24:00] only really existed in arctic environments where you had extreme levels of mate selection and then people were like, well, different skin colors.

Gingers basically have a unique skin tone with their extreme level of freckling. This would have been considered if you took one of them and put them in ancient Rome, they would not be particularly dissimilar to an ancient Roman than to us, a person with pronounced canines would look, or a person with cat ears, or a person with a tail would look.

In terms of that subtle

Simone Collins: standing out. Still human, but different human.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, a subtle but standing out actually wins the genetic lottery when you are dealing with a really high level of skin. Sexual selection, determining which genes win and which genes lose. So we do actually have a real monster girls among us.

They are [00:25:00] called gingers.

Simone Collins: Or women with green eyes or blue eyes or possibly blondes too. So what are your

Malcolm Collins: thoughts? So

Simone Collins: the, the Dallas blonde. which is classically a woman who's not naturally blonde, they just dye her, they dye their hair blonde, is essentially trying to be a monster girl.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I mean, I'd even say more than that.

The girl who dyes her hair blue or something like that in order to appear unique and quirky is a modern version of this. And If people are like, come on, sexual selection, selecting for nonhuman like traits in an individual or slightly nonhuman like traits, even in environments where they didn't evolve this, they adopted this culturally think about the many African tribes that adopted rituals, which.

Turned their body into slightly non [00:26:00] human Oh,

Simone Collins: like elongated necks or Giant loop earrings or

Malcolm Collins: giant things in their, their cheeks. Now, when I see these women, I actually get the same form of disgust that I would get from looking at an actual monster. Like, like something that is genuinely non human.

So I assume that they likely co evolved with a damped down form of that repulsion selection. You in their cultural groups which could mean that if you were to do studies on these populations, you would find much more attractive to things that the like, like monster girl type pornography.

That is

Simone Collins: fascinating. I really like this hot take.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and here it gets more interesting. Okay. So if you look at cultures that deviate from normal human forms, think golden lotuses, for example. Oh, you mean like a Chinese foot binding? Here you see this in a culture that valued extreme levels of femininity and what you have there is a gender dimorphic trait, foot [00:27:00] size that is being created at an extreme level.

Yeah. Someone was in a woman having

Simone Collins: extreme plastic surgery to have large breasts. Yes. And it's another version of that. from childhood with intense pain. I guess also having large breasts is probably intensely painful.

Malcolm Collins: Yikes. And so this is all that people are like, why does all of this matter from human?

Well, when you understand things like that, what arouses you is based on gated metrics, was it discussed in arousal system that are likely the same system, which work was in certain windows. One you can better control your own involuntary arousal pathways by contextualizing them as what they are random switches in your head at birth.

When you contextualize them as like weird addictions and stuff like that due to, you know, things you were exposed to on the internet, then you would relate to them as an [00:28:00] addiction. And the thing is, is people rarely win against addictions when you relate to them as just a standard, like a switch thing that happened at birth, then you can more easily be like, Oh yeah, I'm just going to choose to ignore that.

Like other things I choose to ignore that I, like, for example When I am around a friend or something like that, and they have a hot wife, like I am pre evolved to want to sleep with or hit on their wife, but I choose not to hit on them. I don't view that as like an addiction or something. I'm just like, yeah, I choose not to find that person arousing.

I choose not to hit on them. When you understand these systems and contextualize them for what they really are, it's much easier to not have them influence you. And so if you have any paraphilias, which Most people have, but people are like,

Oh, that person has a fetish. How weird. I'm like, actually, if you look at the data, if you have no fetishes, you are the weird one that you are in a vast minority.

I can't remember if there was like 8 percent of people have like no fetishes at all. In our data set, [00:29:00] like you are the weirdo if you have no fetish. It is not the people with a fetish who are weird.

Simone Collins: Which I just want to clarify. Cause you know, anyone looking at Ayla's stats is going to see the vanilla stuff is obviously the most popular.

You. Very well are probably going to be aroused, but most of the vanilla stuff and then also have these fetishes. Just

Malcolm Collins: no specific fetish is weird, but understanding how these work and we could do other videos and we've done some videos in our early videos. If you've only watched our recent podcast, because you know, we went over some of our theories from our sexuality book and more recent stuff.

I mean, in some of the early stuff that we did you can get a deeper dive on some of these topics, but. Knowing about this doesn't just help you, but also being able to teach your kids about how human sexuality actually works prevents them from contextualizing things that they don't have control over.

It's either shameful or worse than that, because if it's shameful, then they hide it, overindulge in it. You see this in the statistics. When people [00:30:00] think a portion of their sexuality is shameful, they actually indulge in it more than when they don't.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But worse than that, they think it's something they can't talk to their parents about.

So they see themselves as discriminated for it. And then they begin to contextualize it as part of their identity.

Simone Collins: The

Malcolm Collins: very most dangerous thing is that your kids grow up and not understanding how human sexuality works. And then they begin to categorize some paraphilia they have as a portion of their identity.

And then their core identity becomes something like for. Furry or, you know, whatever. Right. Yeah,

Simone Collins: way worse. I mean, yeah they're very high profile examples of religiously, very conservative families having certain members do terrible things, probably because they weren't, yeah, given context, given a way to understand what they felt and what they were tempted to do.

So they just. Exactly. Oh boy. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I, it, it, you know, truth is the purifying light [00:31:00] that burns away our genetic scars in pre programming. When you study this stuff, knowledge burns away temptation and sin. More. than hiding from something. When you hide from something, when you make it magic or addiction or something like that, you give it power.

When you say it just is what it is, a genetic scar, crossed wires, it is much easier to work around than when you don't. Well, and this stuff can become a huge problem if you miscontextualize it and somebody happens to have one of the really damaging one of these, like the, the sadists who think that sadism is actually a part of their personality, or the PDA files who think that that is actually a core aspect of their identity.

And then that leads to incredibly immoral action.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. I'm really glad that, I mean, we've already ruined [00:32:00] sex for our kids. Thank goodness, you know, because we talk about it way too openly and they're going to hate that. And so they're probably going to be virgins until they're mid twenties, but I'm glad they're

Malcolm Collins: virgins their whole life if they want to be so long as they have kids that are genetically theirs.

Simone Collins: Yeah. For, for, for non sex negative people were so surprisingly We're pretty sex negative.

Malcolm Collins: We, we, we are sex, we are open to sexual investigation, but I would think most people reading our book would say, you know, I say objectively, human sexuality is pretty disgusting.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Even vanilla straight sexuality, people are like, no, in a loving marriage.

It's like,

Simone Collins: it's gross. Just the sounds of

Malcolm Collins: sex. If you, if you removed your pre coded addiction to like pre coded predilection for these behaviors and you think about them like you think about it in isolation.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Then it's like,

Malcolm Collins: these are like oozing organs, like, you know,

Simone Collins: but I mean, I mean, also when you think about other very basic human functions [00:33:00] like eating.

And you know, you think about finessing eating a digestive food and But I think when

Malcolm Collins: you contextualize it in that context, it also helps you understand that you know, this is just sort of a pre coded thing into you, but it doesn't define who you are. It's an accidental evolution.

Simone Collins: Well, and similar to eating, right?

You know, it's, it's, we have a language and we have a means of explaining to people that you may really like this one type of food, but it's not good for you. And that doesn't define you. You know, you're not, Whatever type of food person, whereas with sexuality, unfortunately it has been turned into this identity thing, which it seems to even worse now.

So, this was fascinating, Malcolm. I'm so glad we did, cause I didn't know what we were getting into with this. I was like, monster girls. Where are we going to go here? Man, we went down a lot of listening to the

Malcolm Collins: monster girl rap, which I'll play after this. And then we should go check out the the guy who makes the videos.

Cause we, we added one after the tomboy apocalypse video, one of his, his songs, which is also fun. But yeah, I, I absolutely love you, Simone, and I am so honored. To be [00:34:00] married to you. Because you are my fetish.

Simone Collins: I'm gay for you, Malcolm. I don't know why it is that I find you sexy and nothing else, but I'm glad we found each other.

We're weirdly compatible. Oh, that's

Malcolm Collins: great. Right. All right, guys. Have a wonderful day and remember the things that arouse you and your gender are not your identity. They are. Accidents of evolution over focusing on them in terms of your identity will lead to immoral behavior. And if you end up over focusing on them with your children, it makes them very susceptible to gender and sexuality cults and a lot of cults.

He's sexuality, even sexual shame. I mean, this is how the eight passenger situation started. Really was this woman who started it who, who roped in the mom had a thing where basically she kept trying to brainwash people by convincing them they had porn addictions.

Simone Collins: And by porn addiction, it was like, you've looked at porn.

Malcolm Collins: You've looked at porn. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Which welcome [00:35:00] to humanity. I don't know what kind of world she came from, but.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think that she learned that she could use that on any man because she was her Mormon culture. And so when she was trying to get something over on them, she could broadly assume that any man, even if they're Mormon has consumed some amount of porn, And then just say, I know you're a sinner, even if you don't know you're a sinner and all your behavior comes from porn.

And therefore, you know, then use that to, to build a, like a knowledge hierarchy over them. Well, and a wedge

Simone Collins: specifically between them and their wives, which is terrifying.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Love you Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too.

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