Join Malcolm and Simone in a deep dive into the unfolding drama surrounding Kirsch vs Ana Valens . After a week-long vacation, they tackle this complex topic over two episodes, exploring the accusations, evidence, and cultural clashes. From discussing the nature of Vtuber and their avatars to analyzing the controversial actions of Ana Valens and her attempts at cancellation, the episode reveals a tangled web of motivations, including Valens' own experiences with sexuality, consent, and societal rejection. Discover how cultural shifts, personal identities, and internet culture collide in this fascinating, albeit tragic narrative.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. You cannot. I, I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here with you today.

'cause today we are gonna be doing an episode that we were on vacation this last week, and so we weren't able to record new content. Oh yeah. We're around. Our

Simone Collins: kids supposed to be on vacation. All Malcolm can think about is this one thing? Is this, this is all I'm hearing about the whole Cruise

Malcolm Collins: Anna Len's drama.

And so everyone else had covered this already. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna say, you know what, I'm gonna go into it in more detail. I'm gonna find things that our side is getting wrong. I'm gonna find bits of evidence that our side hasn't uncovered yet. Oh goodness. I am going to get so deep that we're actually gonna do two episodes on this because I.

Find the situation so fascinating from the perspective of, because there's just so much history, recorded history on this journalist, Anna Valand. Okay. Just

Simone Collins: for those who do not know anything about Vtu Burst, because. Malcolm thinks everyone knows what VT YouTubers are. VT tubers are about as well known [00:01:00] as furries.

And actually most people, Malcolm don't know about furries either. Okay, so a vtu, okay, so v YouTubers

Malcolm Collins: are people who use personas, an avatar

Simone Collins: to avatars, just sort of be them. We have an episode with Lisa, an animated anime face instead of our faces, for example. Yes, typically comment on things. They comment on news stories.

A lot of 'em are streamers. And so this is about a v YouTuber. Who was the target? Of a cancellation attempt carried out by a prolific online poster author, journalist who'd happened to execute this targeted attack campaign through Vice News articles. And it is theorized that. Part of why this person valence did this is because they were a not very good vtr who had lost a representation contract and had sour grapes about this vtr being successful.

Oh, hold on.

Malcolm Collins: You're

Simone Collins: confusing a number of things here. Okay?

Malcolm Collins: And you're actually getting something wrong that a lot of other people get wrong that we will get into. So I'm gonna first clear up the first big mistake. Do it. A lot of people believe, and we'll [00:02:00] get into this in a second, you don't need to understand.

What I'm talking about here. But basically this person did an unhinged piece about an agency allude tubber agency called V Allure. And in the piece you'll see that they were really just upset that they weren't hired by V Allure. Mm-hmm. And then Keisha, one of the V tubers, they did an attack on multiple V tubers trying to get their sponsors to drop them.

So trying to get Keisha being the

Simone Collins: main target. Right. They're livelihood peers,

Malcolm Collins: you with the main target, but they also targeted leaflet. And, and, and lethal. It is our oshi. You know, that's who, who we push. That added a term in like fandom community means the main person we push, and I really like her content.

But anyway both of these were right-leaning, but not like far right v tubers. When I say right-leaning and not far right these are the types of people who would say. Trans people are real and deserve to be protected, but there are perverts who pretend to be trans people to get covered. Like, they're, they're at that level.

They have not trusted Trans Rubicon yet to say actually the entire trans thing doesn't really make a lot of sense. But. That's like their level of, so they're not that conservative, right? But certain individuals have [00:03:00] decided this just means they must be destroyed. And so, Keisha's understanding of this is, oh, well I did this, this episode that attacked his piece.

Or her piece, sorry, not to misgender here. We we're gonna, we're gonna use the this is a, she.

Right.

Malcolm Collins: But I don't want, to, you know, they, they put a lot of effort into this whole thing, and I don't see the point in hurting their feelings without reason.

Right. But we'll get into, within these two pieces, why you probably, if you are an actual, like if trans people really exist. You would want more than anyone else for somebody like this to not be able to identify as trans. Mm.

Specifically , if you are somebody who says, , being trans is not a paraphilias., you would not want this person representing you because for this individual, very clearly, because they post a lot of their paraphilias publicly, , feminization and the violation of other people's consent are their two primary paraphilias.

[00:04:00] So for this individual, their trans identity is a paraphilia. And they don't hide this.

Malcolm Collins: Because it's very clear that they do not have, a female mind trapped in a male body.

This is a, yeah, it's, it's you really

Simone Collins: angry about like great replacement theory, racists calling themselves ISTs. We're like, no, no you're not. Yeah. In the same way that we're like, no,

Malcolm Collins: great replacement theory is not tism you, you embarra us. Your average trans person would be like, this is not a trans individual.

Exactly. But, but the problem is with her theory that this came from this via lure article is that article came out in April. The campaign against her. What happened was there was a bunch of stuff on Blue sky and X, and then you have the vice articles that come out that sort of accumulate. It didn't start in April.

Oh, it started in March. Oh. Now here's a little question. What episode might she have posted in March that could have triggered an valence?

Simone Collins: I don't [00:05:00] know.

Malcolm Collins: And this. Is unfortunately what sort of undermines what of valence core arguments about this? So Ava publicly has something called POCD. Which is PDA file OCD disorder.

And if you look at some of her tweets, she will say things like thing, is that a real thing? Getting a lot of interest for sexuality, OCD as a sex ed 1 0 1 stream on additional resources on one of the main topics to discuss POCD. There are so many more to discuss. And it's so is this just, is this

Simone Collins: just obsessive compulsive disorder where the compulsion is being a petto bear?

Well,

Malcolm Collins: so that's the way they frame it. But it's not the way, so the, the basically in the Isha piece where she calls this out, okay, she's like, this is actually worse than like, no contact maps. No maps. Maps are minor attractive people where they tried to normalize these desires. And they said, okay.

Well, I, I just don't contact kids. The, the way that POCD is [00:06:00] different from maps is they believe that one of the treatments to it is exposure therapy. Oh, no, no, no. Looking at. And I'll put the, the letters on screen here. So it's like a form of maps with a justification for engaging in it that this person says that they indulged in to, to help suppress it.

And, and this person talks about age play and everything like that, which we'll get to because it gets really hypocritical in just a second here. Oh, okay. Great. Where, you know, they, or the person, they were whiz, likely the person, they were whiz. And tomorrow what we'll get into is this individual is they did a lot of stuff with very young people multiple times.

There was a famous instance with them where they put a sexual toy in their butt and they played a game called what's it called? Fall Guys, which is a game that is mostly played by kids. Oh. And anytime another character touched them it stimulated them. And what you will soon learn about this individual as we go deeper into them, which is really fascinating, is their core arousal pattern seems to be around a violating other people's [00:07:00] consent.

Their most famous article by their own statements was an article around. Public sex and that we need to be having more of it. And it's not actually a violation of consent. They're like, well, somebody can always just choose to look away if they see you as basically something they said in one part of the article.

Oh. So yes, of course. Yeah. This was taken down on Daily Dot. It took me a long time to get this. But yeah. And this appears to be the core motivator for their current trans identity. They, they, they have a male genitalia. They brag about their male gen genitalia all the time. Didn't, didn't Anna

Simone Collins: also write some kind of like sci-fi.

Novel about how in the future trans women such as herself, we'll get to that.

Malcolm Collins: So actually I can just jump right to that if you're interested to, to, because we're talking

Simone Collins: about

Malcolm Collins: her. So this is something that a lot of people lack of consent get wrong. So a lot of people, this individual did in a few different instances. So people who think that this is just one instance of them doing this, it was not one instance. They tell this [00:08:00] same story using different wording in a few places, but every time before they tell it, they say, well, I'm just doing it to troll the other side.

If you look at us when Trump ran. Won, won the election. We had the, you know, go to the breed, the Mar-a-Lago breeding pits episode, right? Mm-hmm. That was the cover article image, because I thought it was funny. But we don't like go on a detailed and this is what the breeding pits will be like. Okay.

And this is what will be done to women there. If you look at what this, like, we just use it as like a shock joke and like title cards and stuff like that. If you look at what this individual is actually going into, I can read one of the shorter instances in which they did this. 'cause they did it a few times.

Yeah. In the future there are a number of institutions that emerge. There are community run institutions where if you are a trans girl, you can go ahead and sign up for a reservation slot to an all access to one of many breeding facilities where you get to breed the S out of cis girl. P. You can absolutely devastate that s.

Effing destroy it, murder it. You have to cycle the girls [00:09:00] out. We have a breeding saunas, breeding bookstores, breeding movie cedars. This is something we're building. This is the future. This is what turfs don't want. The future that I want is a world where you can walk down the street and don't even have to worry about whether you're going to be able to breed that good pee.

That's the future for all of us, and what you'll see is, is this.

Simone Collins: We're not,

Malcolm Collins: we're go into later thing that's written. A bunch of sexual

Simone Collins: fiction is consent. Like it's great until there's no consent. And why? Why does the one thing Anna Valence has to be so into. Have to involve.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that's what her trans identity is.

It's a way to force people, and we'll see this as we go deeper into her stuff. Even the B tubing thing was about violation of consent. Yeah. It's a way to force other people to be forced into her sexual reality. Right. So

Simone Collins: it's, it's not, it's not autogynephilia. It's not, no, I feel like I was born in the wrong body and that that's, I think's what something really that muddles.

[00:10:00] Trans identity is that you get a mixture of all these things. There are some people who genuinely have body dysmorphia. There are other people who just feel like they're women or like they're men that were born in the wrong body. There are other people who love the idea of having sex with themselves as the different gender.

And then you have people who love removing consent and realize, especially given our culture now, that this is the most effective way to do that every single moment of your day in public and. It, it, it just, it's, it must be so annoying to people in the movement to have to deal with these different groups.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: no, all the real trans people have been kicked outta the trans movement. Like, if trans people are real, like, and again, we, we question this you can look at our trans anorexia video, which I think is the best evidence I've seen that it might not be a real thing.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But if it is real. You look at the people who would, I would say, seem to be real trans, like maybe Buck Angel or like Chris Jenner, who were like the original people who pushed the movement.

They're all completely cast outta the movement at this point.

Simone Collins: I think Chris Jenner is the. Is like the mom, well, not Christian. Well, who's, who's the one [00:11:00] who, Caitlyn Jenner, Caitlin Jenner. Caitlin Jenner. Chris

Malcolm Collins: Jenner, Calin, Jen

Simone Collins: Woman. They've

Malcolm Collins: all been completely excommunicated from the movement. The only people who are still in the movement are people like this girl who we're talking about here, or like, Alex Va Minn, who we've talked about, who, you know, fantasizes about, you know.

Kinky little girls in restrooms. We, we've done his quotes before, and these are individuals who have not been excommunicated with the movement. Alex v Menon, for example, recently had a Netflix special where he was a comedian. You know, after these comments they don't even make an attempt to pass. But anyway, I, I, I, I wanna get deeper into the specifics of this because I find.

Everything about this person. Fascinating. I find the way they have tried to weaponize vice against anyone who pisses 'em off, which we'll get into in a second. Very fascinating. Mm-hmm. But if you wanna get an example of like, the types of, of of things that this person writes and feels the need to share with other people.

When they got the job at Vice, they. Wrote an article called Uhoh Waypoint hired a giant v tuber. And it's a picture of [00:12:00] their, their, you know, lewd tubing, avatar. Stomp, stomp, stomp. Here comes Anna Vallens, the world's First and only Giants games journalist, v YouTuber. Oh, boom, boom, boom. Well, that's very specific.

Hear specific, massive pulverizing the ground below. I, whoops. Wrong job. Sorry. How embarrassing. Let's start again. You see, she loves forcing. She, she uses the fact that she got a job at this mainstream outlet to force people to engage in her sexual role play

Simone Collins: and also to advertise her career. Yeah, this's the

Malcolm Collins: first thing she thinks to do, and she earns the majority of her money from her sexual roleplay stuff, which she also says.

But it's only about $600 a month though, which we'll get into all of that.

Simone Collins: Tough, tough market out there these days. Yeah, right.

But she's going niche. Another thing I know like Giantism. There's a world for it, but I don't think it's a big one.

Malcolm Collins: It's, it's apparently not a big one, but there's even a smaller world for trans giants.

Yeah. She's playing on hard mode here.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So I wanna get into the, the Via Lure article. So Via Lure [00:13:00] was a VT tubing agency for Lew Tubers. Now, Anna Vains does not mention this. At the beginning of her, are you thinking there would be some disclosure trigger warning? I am a L YouTuber who applied to this agency and they didn't get back to me.

We know she applied to this agency because some great autistic internet detectives did found a post where after they did their first announcement she cheered herself on about applying for them. But I will note here, before we go further with any of this, she's gonna be like, oh, well, you know, POCD is about being worried about being into underage people.

It's like, well then. Why did you get mad at them? Why did all of this start when they published this and, and keep in mind, Kirsha was hounded by one Tweeter who, who I think even still is doing over a hundred tweets a day about this. It, and we don't know that this tweeter isn't valence as far as I know, right.

It, it seems like she might be, because we will get into instances in which valence says something on her Twitter account and then references it in a Vice article with her, like actual Twitter account was like, no upvote.

Simone Collins: Well then also have there not been. Like screenshotted [00:14:00] comments, but the, the comments were posted one second ago making it almost obvious that it was a stock puppet account, was,

Malcolm Collins: Saying somebody threatened my life.

And the comment was one second ago on Reddit, and it's like, okay, how did the vice editing team let this get through? Well, that, I think that's one of the mainstream criticisms

Simone Collins: of Anna Valence is that in her hit piece of KIS and Leo Lit there, there's a lot of, non non-con confirmed, non-primary source, secondhand anonymous Reddit references?

No, not just non-con confirmed.

Malcolm Collins: She associates with them. In the, in the Kersha instance, she associates with Kersha stuff that a stalker who hated Kersha was saying about her. Oh, good

Simone Collins: lord.

Malcolm Collins: And, and like very obvious stalker who was always trying to attack Kirsha. Then. She like, imagine like giving a microphone to somebody's stalker, right?

Like what a vile person. And then with Leaflet, she got mad at her for a title card that, that leaflet had, doesn't make her own. YouTube, just so people know she mentioned this on our channel. Somebody else makes [00:15:00] her YouTube for her. They had made a title card where she's covering another video where there is a, a black person being led around on a chain by a white person. And the point she was making in the video is, aren't our prison system's terrible? We need to talk about this. It's basically like slavery in a way.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And that, that was the point she was making. But they had a smiling version of her avatar in one of the ab test, dear dears of the title card.

So not even on all

Simone Collins: of the title cards, just one which probably does better click through, happens to us

Malcolm Collins: all the time. It's people all the time. Take title cards of us like the hope Not Hate article on us. Used a bunch of title cards. Completely that where the episode in Yeah. Like should women be allowed to vote question mark?

Yeah. Yeah. Where the point is yes, they should. Or the episode of secret Jewish Technology for fighting the urban monoculture that had like an ominous looking like, like Star of David. And they're like, look, they must say the whole episode about allowed are women shouldn't, no

Simone Collins: women and men should only be allowed to vote if they're contributing.

And, and that contributor to society, which, sure, go

Malcolm Collins: ahead. Yep. But anyway, I wanna get into this VT tubing piece because I wanna read some quotes from it so you can see. [00:16:00] How unhinged it is. So she gets angry that she doesn't get hired by them, is, is what we learned in the piece. And then she goes on a stream where a number of their talent are talking.

And so then she writes about this incident where she thinks she's gonna get them with a got you moment. And she believes this at the gotchu moment during the stream, talent shi be kabam stressed. V Lure will accept transgender talent as long as they quote. Go by female pronouns. Quote, quote, live life as a woman, quote and quote.

Sound like a woman in quote, oh, the gen team. So we messed up as the issue was discussed, but, and, and now, dot, dot, dot here. What does it mean to quote unquote sound like a woman? Is Villa Lore willing to accept trans women like myself? Even though I have a feminine voice, I'm often clocked as trans during stream and in as MR comments.

Would I lack the right credentials to quote unquote sound like a woman? In other words, do they want trans talent or do they want trans women who sound specifically like cis women? [00:17:00] They want trans talent that trying CIS women could, if necessary, hide their gender identity. B and Lure never clarified these during the stream.

Essentially putting trans talent right back in square one. How does Villa Lore feel about trans women? What that is the most. This is a company that makes money by men who are horny for the people who work at the company. Okay? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're like, if you sound like a man or like a trans not gonna work woman in your terms, it's not, you're not, guys aren't gonna like that. Yeah. They're not gonna want that. You're not gonna be able to get guys off. Right. And this is true, this, in the second post we're gonna do on this person they do a long post about why nobody wants to date them. And then they go into the statistics showing that basically nobody wants to date trans women.

And that's just like a statistical fact. So this is a company trying to sell erotic material and she's saying that people should be. Forced to consume the erotic material that she creates, even if it's not what turns them on, that companies should be forced to distribute her [00:18:00] erotic content to an audience that doesn't want it, even though it doesn't turn them on because again.

Her core kink is the violation of other people's consent. And I would note I don't actually have a problem with that as a kid. If you are engaging with this, speak yourself within a fictional context within like, let's say AI chat. Okay. Or was in stories Yeah. Or was in books that you're reading or was in young adult fiction.

Okay. Which a lot of it does. Totally fair. You look at 50 Shades of Gray yeah. You know, that's fine, that's great. More power to you. But if you engage with it well, or consensual

Simone Collins: non-consent as we discussed with, you know, aila at one point, so Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah. Like consensual non-consent stuff.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That's all fine, but what this person is doing is actively violating other people's consent to get off.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: when

Simone Collins: they happen, it's non-consensual, non-consent.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Non-consensual, non-contentious. What this person is into, especially public, non-consensual, non-consent, no, like public sex or bringing people in at the beginning of a vice article into their fetish [00:19:00] or you know, as you can see here, forcing an agency to accept them.

I can't believe that they wrote this in like a public article, but anyway. They then, you know, end the article by saying, so let me get this straight. Erotic content of young girls is fine because she goes on this big complaint that some of their characters look like an anime style that looks underage and sometimes is explicitly underage.

I. But lesbian content goes too far. What, that's particularly strange when you consider the popularity of F four F. So she gets really mad 'cause she only wants to create, and if you even look at her own website, she will not create content for men. She has this fantasy that there are cis women consuming her content and we'll go into like this being a fantasy 'cause she points out in another article that will read on another day that no cis women wants to date her.

But that online, cis women are plenty into her. And I'm like, sweetheart, those are not cis women. Though there're women pretending to be cis women because as we know from the statistics, cis women basically almost never are into trans women when they're lesbians or anything else. But anyway, she wants to create this category of content and it's [00:20:00] like, if there was a real market for this, why can't you just do it yourself and create this big audience?

But anyway, simply put. The genre is not only enjoyed by queer women, but straight men as well. Men commonly listen to F four V content for the same woman Reason that men enjoy watching Real Life Lesbian Port because it's about two women having sex.

So I would note here we go into this extensively in our book, the Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality. But this is not why, , women on Women content is so popular among male audiences. The reason it's so popular among male audiences is that average cis hetero men have a very strong disgust reaction to other men.

, And some of them have such a strong, disgusted reaction to seeing other men for like obvious evolutionary reasons.

Any man who is okay with or still turned on by a group of other men sleeping with his partner is going to have significantly fewer surviving offspring than a man who isn't. well as women don't need this disgust reaction to other women. A woman. [00:21:00] Who is okay with other women sleeping with their partners, especially when you consider it certain parts of human history.

For every one male that had a surviving offspring, 17 females did, suggesting that females were hoarded by high value men, , actually discussed towards other women, and sleeping with your partner would cause fewer surviving offspring in a evolutionary context. But anyway, the point here being is many men have a very strong disgust reaction to other men within their erotic content.

, This is also why. Very valent seems to have a huge problem with this, not understanding this why people consume futa. The reason why people consume this is because it is a way for an individual who doesn't want to see any males in their pornography have PIV sex still within that pornography.

You as a trans woman are not futa, you would literally be the most antithesis thing that somebody who is into that [00:22:00] category of porn would want because

From the perspective of the.

Evolutionary deep culture doesn't care about modern cultural norms. Brain.

you are a man that is dressed up like a woman,

I note this because Vallen is constantly pointing out the popularity of Fuda pornography as a, . Evidence that there is a big audience out there for trans creators like hers, especially ones that haven't had bottom surgery. , When this is not the case. In their pragmatist guide to sexuality, we did a survey of individuals who said they liked Putah, and then asked how many of that group said that they were also into pornography that featured trans individuals, and the result was near 0%.

Malcolm Collins: this is dely the case when it comes to fetish material like bondage.

Theism, ISTs and Vore where the premise is more important than the gender of the performers. And I'm like, that's really effing specific. That wouldn't happen to be the type of content that you produce and are mad they won't [00:23:00] hire you for. It's like, oh yes, because we've already gone over. It is, but I'd wanna point out the really ironic thing about her attacking this company.

For their underage appearing models. Okay. Which is to say this person has repeatedly talked about how they engage in and promote age play. This is play where one of the partners pretends to be underage. Okay. Now, when companies have these YouTube avatar things, it is always. An above age woman playing it.

None of these companies have underage girls playing these models. It is literally the exact same thing that Anna Vallens is promoting and doing herself. And, and keep in mind, this isn't like me saying this, even her followers are arguing this. So if you look at quotes from her followers who support her, they're like, like, okay, maybe, arping age play squeaks some. So it's not just regular, [00:24:00] it's arping removal of consent, age play that she really liked. Oh no. But surely this can't be worse than actually being an effing Nazi. Right. Which is exactly what Kirsha and her supporters are. Keep in mind, Kirsha is is mid sauce like she is. She is not that conservative.

She's not as conservative as us. And people say we're liberals all the time. Besides, I've been on X long enough to remember who Anna Valence is and honestly, who the hell cares? A Nazi and an openly proud one is 1 million times worse than a trans woman who's into age play. I said, what? I said by the way, here, what I'm gonna put on screen, which I find really fascinating, is so in her article on Vice, so you can tell, basically she's just using Vice to push her Twitter agenda.

Was out doing any real fact checking, doing all the normal stuff you would see from a Twitter or Blue Sky activist, like faking screenshots, like the one where she got the threat one second before she screenshotted it. Where here she says in a tweet via lure, says straight up no to f. Four F content as the agency says, it cannot [00:25:00] ensure success if it creates content for queer women.

Straight content is the vision of the company because of an established method will always be F four M content, and I can't see that changing at this point in time. One, why is that a problem? But two, what she has shared here was in her article is a link to her own blue Sky account. Okay, and this is whatever this is called on Blue Sky only has 77 likes in 12 re reposts.

This she thought was relevant to put in an article and a link from an article in a mainstream news source. I. This is what Vice has become, is a platform for individuals like this. Now, as I was gonna say earlier she's since removed her blue sky. She's since removed her Twitter. She's since likely been removed from the writing team of Vice because they removed these two articles from her Daily dot only after

Simone Collins: Vice published an article defending her.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: they did. So there were three articles in this series trying to get these people canceled, trying to get their sponsors to drop them. She was trying to. Produce active harm [00:26:00] in the same way that cancel culture usually did. And basically she found that cancel culture doesn't work anymore. Not only did it not work when she was attempting to do it on Twitter, although she did get they did get one of her sponsors to drop her this game called Crime City.

Whatever. I don't care. She's likely more popular now. This really centered kirsha which I really appreciate happened. You know, she's more famous now than she's ever been. We've invited her to come on our show. She said she's gotten a lot of ass recently. She, so it may take a while if anyone is fans of hers, be like, Hey, you should go on base Camp.

You should talk to Malcolm and Simone. Because I'd love to help Signal boost her. After all this, because I think that that needs to be the community's reaction when they see somebody try to get canceled. Everybody needs to move around them. What I was really surprised about is kirsha through a legal threat, was able to get all these articles taken down.

And Im like, you know, like we've had, like, as I've mentioned, like seven articles in the last month about us on the New York Times, well, I like B, c articles, coverage, really? Jezebel. I've never thought of trying to have one taken down. Like, I was like, oh, these just draw more attention to us. Right? Like, I didn't even realize having a A A A com, a completely fake article taken down and the guardian.

Writes articles that are [00:27:00] as unhinged about us as these articles are from, from Vice about her?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I'd also, we don't like legal stuff. Mm-hmm. We really don't like legal stuff.

Malcolm Collins: So another thing about this individual that hasn't been covered a lot is if you go to her substack, you get to paint her a picture of who she is and what she's dealing with.

And what you learn is this is an individual who, by the success of the new right, by the success of the culture shift has had her life systemically destroyed.

She was a woke games journalist who focus on promoting, moving the Overton window around sexuality, around things like the sexualizing of minors around things like you know, whi her like age play content, whi her you know, around thi and I love it.

The, I don't actually care, like the whole lolly thing, whatever. Like, what? I'm not gonna go there. I don't have an opinion on that. But what I will say and I do have an opinion on is her attacking another group over this while promoting the same thing. Like I am against Hypocrites. Okay. I. And I can be like, oh, Malcolm, you [00:28:00] want, I mean, it's entirely fictional content.

And we know that when you ban something like pornography, the amount of child assaults sa assaults goes up by around 50%. We saw this in the Czech Republican who was banned. It's, it's been seen in many other countries. I can only imagine. I. Like, I know it's something that you're not allowed to study, ALA got absolutely de fenestrated over this.

But it likely very unfairly, very unfairly, very unfairly lower the, so this is one of these things where, I dunno if, if it's completely fictionalized content

If I was to promote a law in this domain,, it would 100% be focused on what reduces the amount of harm to children. , And if it was shown as I think the evidence leans towards right now is having this content available. Lowers the number of children who have to go through their lives having experienced this.

Then I will trade. All the content in the world, however distasteful it may be. So one, just one child doesn't have to experience this, but we're likely looking at [00:29:00] many children per year talking around. , If you look at the statistics, probably banning this would lead to hundreds more children per year having to experience this.

And I just can't justify that over what is ultimately, , an aesthetic play.

I mean, whether you're looking at essay offenders in prison often started consuming porn at a later age, or you look at, as we mentioned before, when porn bans have been removed in countries, the amount of essay that happens drops dramatically. And we're talking like 50%, like, not like small dramatically.

Or you can look at Wiz every. , Percent, I think it was every percent increase in internet access within the United States. SAS dropped by around 7%. , Just across the board, you see this.

And you can go to our other videos where we go deeper into the effects of banning, , various types of pornography. I am not saying I like that this content exists, , but what I'm saying is my end goal is reducing harm to children.

It is not looking like the most conservative guy in the room.

Malcolm Collins: I dunno if, if it's completely fictionalized content

Simone Collins: yeah. [00:30:00] Except that's not what Anna Valence was universally doing. Yes. Some of it was fantasy, but some of it was putting. Yeah. Like, but her thing thing was like the video

Malcolm Collins: game where she was doing that with actual kids.

Yeah. That,

Simone Collins: that's, that that crosses line, like if you are doing this in a 100% synthetic environment, the problem is that she almost is, is like the biggest case, arguing that, you know, any indulgence in this is not okay because. She clearly wasn't able to keep it purely fictional. And that is a problem.

So I don't know.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because she had these psychological licensing mechanisms like POCD that gave her the ability to engage in this stuff. Yeah, that's,

Simone Collins: that's

Malcolm Collins: b******t. Yeah. No, no. I know. It's, it's, it's b******t. But what I'm saying is there's just like one by the way, people are like, oh, well this is a real thing.

No, it's not a real thing. Like one guy made this up and it's published a bunch of articles on it in like 2015. This, this, this does not appear, it appears to be a license for authorizing exposure therapy for something that, that normally you would not promote. But anyway, let's, [00:31:00] let's look at her actual quotes here.

Okay? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Well, and let's be clear, because a lot of people's obsesses, obsessions and compulsions with, with traditional OCD or like main non-autistic OCD or like, I'm really afraid of hurting someone. I'm really afraid of like, no, the, their exposure isn't. Okay, well now let's go hurt people. You know?

Yeah. Just that's not,

Malcolm Collins: no, that's not what you, but anyway, so she says, I've been looking for work in media for the past couple weeks now, particularly games journalism and surprise. Surprise has been a complete waste of my effing time. I. Take a look at the positions available on video games, journalist jobs site.

As of this, article six are posted. Four of them are unpaid Of the two positions that offer compensation, both are freelance and one of them is only offering three to five pounds per SEO article, three to five pounds per article. That's nowhere near a living wage for the work involved in researching fact checking.

Well, fortunately for you, you don't do that. And writing a search engine optimized work of games journalism, but hey, if you're de [00:32:00] that desperate, go get it. Five pounds to write a thousand words about the best Tokyo GUL characters. What is steal? In short, if you work in games journalism and are out of a job right now, you are FD also, if you currently.

Have a miserable job in games journalism, but enjoy eating food. You are effed. And then do, do, do. I'm going to let you know a secret in the media industry. In 10 years, I have written many cover letters and many resumes for full-time jobs. I've never heard back from any of them, not once.

Despite being a prolific writer, reporter, and even published author, no one has asked me for a chat for a call. No interest from Jezebel, none from motherboard, gizmodo ha a rejection email. What makes. More since blowing a whole day, preparing a resume that will never land me an interview or recording audio where I pretend to be a giant woman that eats people.

It helps day me. Made a couple hundred dollars this month.

Simone Collins: No, doesn't take you a whole day to prepare a resume.

Malcolm Collins: I, but like, I understand where she's coming from, right? Like, okay, at least I can get a couple [00:33:00] hundred dollars a month if I do that. Well, this is

Simone Collins: why so many women are on OnlyFans,

Malcolm Collins: clearly.

Right? I mean, obviously it's, it's not a long-term solution for most people who engage in it, which is why people, you know. Don't, don't promote this. But I, I, this I think gives an idea of like where this girl's mental space is.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

This is an individual who bought in to the opposing side of this civilizational conflict that we have been having, the side that was dedicated to cultural imperialism and riping out. Any cultural differences, any differences in the way people see gender roles? Any differences in the way people see sexual taboos or sexual norms, or?

Or what marriage means to them or the future of human civilization. I mean, they, they were unmitigated the bad guys in this civilizational battle, but this person bought into it a hundred percent. , And I guarantee you they thought they were a good person when they were doing it. And now not only are they completely, you know, [00:34:00] unemployable living off of the food scraps of society, but they will likely for the rest of their lives, , be looked at.

, With a degree of derision, as the pendulum continues to swing more and more against the abuses of the trans movement, I could not imagine a fate worse than living in this person's shoes.

But I paid $5,000 to be a woman. This would mean I, I'm not really a woman, it's, I'm just a, I, I'm just a guy with a mutilated penis, basically.

Yes. Oh boy. Do I feel like a jackass? I.

Simone Collins: She's struggling to find work, so she decides to do basically online sex work and complains about it, says she can't get a job, but still manages to become a writer advice.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What I was, one, one of the things I was gonna talk about was this, is she actually did at one point land a job not just as a, as a [00:35:00] journalist, but managing an entire journal team after one of the companies she was worked at was acquired by another company. She quit within a month, said the workload was too high, and then set up a GoFundMe.

Oh.

Simone Collins: Oh. It's not

Malcolm Collins: that she's never gotten the shots in life. Okay. It's that she has thrown the shots away.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So I will note here that, her career choice around, again, not just J Games journalism, but if you look at her games journalism, it's all about trying to move the Everton window on sexual deviancy in ways that is likely psychologically harmful to people.

As we'll get into in the next video on her, where we'll go over the mental damage she's done to her herself, and we will see a picture of a completely destroyed individual. Like we saw with this game journalism stuff, but the industry that they have touched, they also burned down games. Journalism didn't burn down because of the right, it burned down because of writers like her who cared about pushing their message over the truth.

You know, I know if I want to hear the truth, I go to someone like Kirsha. I go to somebody like side Scrollers. I do not go to somebody. Like one of [00:36:00] her articles because you know, she's never worked in the games industry. If you go to Leaflet, leaflet used to work for Riot Games, you know, she designed Luxe and Pantheon, right?

Like she is an OG gamer. She works at like five major gaming companies and now does in part games journalism. And she's interested in a. N fairly neutral, slightly right-leaning version of the truth. This individual is not, this individual is interested in forcing other people, as you could see throughout the Al Lure article, to do what she wants which is, you know, oh, accept this, accept this, accept this.

Right? And so if you look at this background of hers, she's finding it hurts her even more than other people in the games industry. So she writes. It is strange because this was not always the case once. My experience as a sex worker was a vital career asset back when I was a reporter specializing in online censorship, which is funny that now her main job is trying to promote online censorship, sex workers' rights and sex tech.

Being a sex worker was a career benefit. It was a sign that I knew what I was talking about. I offered lived experience, intuition [00:37:00] and digital gonzo journalist vibe that made me trustworthy in and out of the sex working community. It's one reason why, again, I was able to write a book, invited to talk at universities and so on.

Keep in mind, I don't know if her book ever really sold. It was about the early sexual history of Tumblr, but it actually looks like it could be interesting from somebody who was rotted by exposure to that we can see, oh, let's prevent this from happening again. Now writing about adult content, sex work, and online sexuality, as seen as taboo as Google may ding a domain covering these topics.

So, my experience as a sex worker is an additional professional liability, at least in the eyes of your average civilian. Why risk bringing on a sex worker? What kind of baggage does it bring on for a long-term future as an adult content creator? But I also need additional income to support my career. A rookie l tubing.

Lude tubing only pays a couple hundred a month, hence the job search. So this is someone who destroyed their career prospects by engaging in what was normalized was in her [00:38:00] communities. And if you look at even her life, she has completely created a fictional persona that she has to play to be happy.

Somewhere along the way, I stopped playing shooters and started wearing leather. I was having sex I didn't want and doing sex I wasn't into, I was reading books that were certifiably mid because other people said they were based. I was hiding my interest in Nerd S because it wasn't cool to be at home. Real queers touch grass, lathered, lube and effed. So basically this is the type of person who gets so social pressured by these communities that even she sees the damage these communities were doing to her, that she was completely making up who she was, even if all she was doing was hedonism, maxing.

She then says, one day I woke up and realized that I wasn't being honest with myself. I was trying to look punky, because that's what you did when you were a D in Boston. I was trying to hang out in bars, events, and activist spaces that were cool, hip, sexy, forcing myself to go to parties. I didn't enjoy listen to poetry.

I didn't like jerk off writers. I hated to read wear clothes I didn't feel comfortable in. [00:39:00] And for what? What good came of it? Which is really sad to see this, this life that she had constructed. She thought if she always searched for validation, if she always chased the, the dragon of progressivism, the most victimized person in the room, the most ET person in the room, the most degenerate person in the room, that she would achieve affirmation and be satisfied with her life and her life.

If you read her substack, is just a constant. Okay. I think I finally found what'll make me happy and then a few months later, okay, that didn't make me happy. Okay. I think I finally found what'll make me happy. And if you contrast her life. We say our life where we literally live, you know, the end scene in grandma and grandpa turned young again, or the end scene in, in, in Gladiator.

You know, I've got these fields of weed in front of my house. I've got my kids, I've got my wife, you

Simone Collins: know, without everyone being

Malcolm Collins: dead. Yes.

[00:40:00]

But instead of sacrificing and working to build a meaningful career that helped people to build a family, to have kids to work, to make the next generation better than the last, this person in an endless search for self validation and pleasure basically fell to Thea Bytes.

Doors to the pleasures of heaven nor hell. I didn't care, which I thought I'd gone to the limits I hadn't. The center bytes gave me an experience beyond the limits pain and pleasure.

Indivisible. We weren't against you feeling pleasure. We weren't against you being validated. We were trying to protect you from the inevitable

of incessant and without restraint. Indulgence.

These days, the fight often feels like progressives yelling at us. Like, why don't you want CINA bytes hanging around our schools and [00:41:00] recruiting children like everyone should be okay with Cina Bytes. Cina bytes are the best.

Malcolm Collins: But it's like, why do we promote. All the things we promote because it helps people because at the end of the day, while it may hurt you in the moment to say, Hey, don't indulge in that stuff, don't indulge in that stuff publicly.

We've always said like, what turns you on is what turns you on. You don't have a control of that, but don't indulge in it publicly because one, it. Often ends up hurting other people. It often ends up violating other people's consent. And eventually it will come back to you. It will come back and damage you.

And in addition to that, because we were right about all of that, we say don't engage in these lifestyles. Yes, I understand that in the moment. This is the way you wanna see yourself. This is what you think. But as we know from you know, the study gender dis discontentedness and gender non-content w.

Used in 2023 of 13 year olds who identify with the opposite gender by the time they're 23 over nine in 10, identify with their birth gender. This is a phase. This is, this is what the data tells us now. And so when other people affirm this in you, even though it, it, it makes you feel better in the moment, it [00:42:00] ends up causing more suffering than getting married while you're young.

Starting a family and, and, and doing the hard thing, you know, going in and putting in the work, going in and doing the hustle and, and, and doing the unglamorous job that makes your family the money it needs to make. And I think that a lot of people can see that what we're pushing and they're like, yeah, but this hurts in the short term.

But it helps people in the long term.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and then, and I think that that's what a lot of the new right is about. It's like what actually works, what actually helps people. We don't wanna enforce some outdated gender storm stereotype. We don't wanna outdate, enforce outdated sexual norms or morality or taboos.

Where we enforce those things is because systems that you thought were outdated. It turns out, if you look at this all as a sober mind, seem to have had some benefit to the people who pursue them. And we say this even in ways that hurt, you know, some of our followers, you know, I could say something like, if you're a girl and you're not married by the age of 25, you need to be panicking.

It's going to be very, very hard to secure a partner. And this hurts a lot of the [00:43:00] women who watch this, who are single, they're like, it's really hard to find a guy after 25. And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to help the version of you that's still young. And I know it hurts for me to say this, that it's, it becomes almost impossible because guys will play you.

They see your desperation and they will use that. To get you to stay with them, and then they trade you out for somebody younger in a few years. And, and it's horrifying that this happens, but they can get away with it because the dynamics are so in their favor. When you hit that 30 dating market which is, I'll see this with women, it'll be like, well, I'm a nine out 10.

It's like, well, you're a nine out of 10 for a 30-year-old. But the problem is that 30-year-old guys for nine out of tens can date 25 year olds. And, and that's the problem. That's, that's the, and, and when they turn 40, it's the same, right? So the whole system is rigged against you. It hurts to say this, but it helps society in aggregate to normalize this understanding.

Now if you wanna go into other things that, that, oh, sorry. I had also note here, you know, when we talk [00:44:00] about like the. Underage content, a lot of this underage content or I wanted to say the phenotypically young content, a lot of this phenotypically young content that people are complaining about.

There were the recent instance in which somebody did a video of like an anime girl who had this sweet guy and she was in a, a wheelchair, and they're like, this is what guys actually want.

商売。ほんまにしょっぱいで。なんでこんなしょっぱいんや。そりゃよかったな。

ほら、暴れるな。 ね。

ね。

Malcolm Collins: and it was just like helping a girl and all these progressives like attack them. These, and they were like, oh, how can you wanna help a girl in a wheelchair?

Like that's like a fetish, or This girl looks underage. And it's like, no, that's a normal way people are drawn in anime. No guys really do want women who are dependent on the, and that they can help in some, like literally the only way

Simone Collins: age is drawn in anime is, is if they add literal like wrinkles.

And [00:45:00] typically people don't have wrinkles until they're 50 years, 55 years or older. So like, how are you gonna show an anime that a woman. Is an adult. Like you can't, unless you, you make her look chibi. That's how you like, it's like clearly a child, I guess. Yeah. But yeah,

Malcolm Collins: just to make that. But anyway to, to quote from her again here, I found this really interesting 'cause she's talking about a video game here.

Annette's consent is best dubiously obtained throughout the game, but there's an implicit joy that she takes in the submission pass as if Annette surrenders to her disposition. Unlike her twin sister Annabel, she never truly chose to use the perverted app, demon dash, so she can see herself as a victim robbed of her innocence.

Barb's desire are being forced onto her if they're secretly her own. So in dominance, Annette is freed to be a pervert. It's as if Annette is saying. I don't really wanna worship at Barb's feet or I don't really wanna be spanked. Mommy is making me do it. So again, you can see again throughout her work is this talk of violation of consent.

If you look [00:46:00] at writing that she's done, so if I just take a quick, I'm not gonna read like the big fiction she's done that other people have done, like here, she read on her stream you could see here. And what was really sad is you saw in this one article, she's like, oh there's this, you know, the, her whole takeaway from society doesn't like me anymore.

All of these friend groups, I was trying to endear myself. Don't like me anymore. Cis women won't date me anymore. I'm gonna go online to EcoSport. Which is this, this war community, because cis women still date me there. And I'm like, bro, there there are not many cis women in that community. But anyway, if you look at like the things she's writing that people are engaging with because I think understanding this individual sexuality is so fascinating to me that could lead them to , this life of, of this dark place.

Just like. Pure. She, she reminds me of Roger and Family Guy when he dies and like his life flashes before his eyes. And not, not only is he in drag, but, but, it's then just, he makes the most evil choice at literally every stage of his life. Oh goodness. And that's this individual

Anybody [00:47:00] want a piece of this against my will? I won't accuse anyone..

I did it perfectly.

Malcolm Collins: she writes, it's dire, it's urgent.

You must acquire it. A feminization spell. You're eager to transform your body. And you've heard rumors of feminizing magic, capable of shaping your entire form into exactly what you want., Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you, you again see like. This is the type of stuff she's into. But what you see here, what's very interesting is people will say, well, like being trans isn't a fetish for me. What, what is this sin? Why is she writing this? If this isn't a fetish, this is something that is meant to be masturbated to, and it's about feminizing yourself.

[00:48:00] Okay? You can say, this isn't a fetish, but for this individual it clearly is. If you look at the audio that they have they, because they say they're an asmr, like L YouTuber. You can buy. F four a breed, your goddess w***e. T four F. Hi. I promise I'm not the young girl with a kink.

T four, TF one way or another. I'm sucking your girl. D Magical girl. T four T, T four T, T four. I'm not gonna read all that stuff. Fem by a devilish librarian, fem dom, a succubus corners you, strips you and s your pretty thighs. So again, you can see the removing consent from people is consistent throughout these this stream delivery girl returns for oral during the autumn sale.

A so again, here you see a bunch of this an interview with a mind controlling Succubus and her magic girl. This

Simone Collins: does sound fairly typical for Gone Wild Audio to, to be fair. No, no,

Malcolm Collins: no. I am saying to [00:49:00] be fair, but the point I'm making with this stuff is you know, your girlfriend is secretly a plant monster girl and she wants to gem anize your pretty body

Simone Collins: correction gone.

Wild audio niche. Like most of it's like no, no, no, no. The girl next door thinks you're hot. So this is not normal. It's not the most popular content.

Malcolm Collins: The point I'm making is that for this individual, and they've written in their articles that like anyone who identifies as a woman can be a woman.

They, they wrote that in the, in the article. They're not like, oh, you need to look like a woman. Oh, you need to act like a woman. This is very much this violation of a consent form of transness where you don't need to pass. You don't need to do anything like that. Everyone just needs to see me the way I see myself, even if it's against their religion, especially when I can force their kids to do it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But what you can see, and the point I'm making by reading through these is feminization. Is a kink of theirs and violation of consent is a kink of theirs. Hmm. And it's not just like a kink, it's like the core kink of theirs. It's the point. It's the point with that being the case to say that this is [00:50:00] anything other than I.

It, bringing other people into their fetish is just a lie. Right? And this is why I said like, I think trans people would not want an individual like this within their communities. If, if, if there is a form of transness where genuinely no kink is a part of this is just gender dysphoria. Because for this individual, they kink is very much the core driving factor of it.

If you, if you go further you, you'll see stuff. Well, I don't, you don't wanna read all of her. I, I, I downloaded so many of this because I thought that it was, it was so interesting to, to go into like, all of these kinks that she had. Well,

Simone Collins: if there's one thing in a villain is 100%. It is prolific. So,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

And it's been very interesting and fun to, to, for me to learn about, because it's like. Through a mirror darkly, like what happens if. You indulge in this path. Mm-hmm. Where do you end up when you listen to the the lies of the urban monocultural virus when you buy them? A hundred [00:51:00] percent. Because Anna, if you read her like Substack, it's actually like decent writing when it's stuff that she cares about and she's not just trying to attack people.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: She could have been a decent writer. Right. But this is an individual who allowed the brain rot to creep so deep and desperately. Into her mind, no, that she is now unable to find happiness and basically just lives a life of imp poverty, of screaming at her computer. And it's a life that she knows will only get worse from this point forwards as society increasingly is like, okay, this form of degeneracy, that you have a huge public record tied to your real name or your trans name.

You know, how do you get a job with that going forward? How do you get a job when so many people hate you for trying to ruin the lives of multiple innocent people? And, and she believed that these individuals were gonna shoot. She believed that if they did anything that disaffirm her, if they called her out for her PDA file stuff that that meant that they were trying to eradicate her because in her mind, anything that is not affirming.

Is genocide. [00:52:00] Anything that doesn't say, well, you can be whatever you want and indulge in, in whatever you want, is genocide. And that's how she got to the belief that Kyia is genocidal because kyia does not agree with this. Individual's take on trans. I see. Which is, is, is mortifying to me because at the end of the day, our beliefs around gender, gender norms and sexuality are cultural.

Pre predominantly, that's, that's what drives them. You can, you can say, okay, well what's the scientific answer? Unfortunately, the scientific answer doesn't promote trans right now, as we pointed out in a number of our episodes on this. So if you're saying, okay, well then at least people should have the cultural right to do this.

It's like, okay, you should have the cultural right to do this. That's why I'm gendering you correctly. Right? But you shouldn't have the cultural right. To label someone as genocidal because they have a different cultural perspective of gender than you. Which, you know, you're gonna find in Africa,

Speaker 13: No. No. It'll look like to if you want to become a lady, but your man, you have something wrong in your Something wrong. Something wrong in your family.

Speaker 12: Something wrong in you.

Malcolm Collins: which you're gonna [00:53:00] find in Islamic culture, Greece, which you're gonna find in, in Buddhist, you know, conservative Buddhist environments, which you're gonna find pretty much anywhere you go in the world.

They're gonna be like, yeah, this isn't. A, a valid thing.

Even the culture where they're like, oh, because we've talked about this before. They're like, oh, you see transness in different cultures, like Two-Spirit and like this thing in Indonesia, this thing in India. And we're like, no, you don't. Actually. In those cases, it's either young boys who are castrated for sex work, which we consider more like a castrato or twine, gay men.

Which, which, you know, you, in our culture, we don't say what makes you trans is that you appear to be an effeminate man who likes sex with men. Like that's a tweet. This, this appears to be completely unique to our culture. That was the thing that really changed my perspective on trans. I realized that that's when I was like, oh, this is completely unique to our culture.

And it leads to a 50% or around 50% unloving attempted rate. Like clearly that's a toxic thing. Why is it that the more accepting our society has gotten of trans individuals, the higher the trans unloving rate has gotten? Mm-hmm. How, why is it that when you go [00:54:00] within cultures the more accepting a culture is of transness, the higher the unliving rate is of, of trans individuals within that culture?

It'll only make sense. If you, if you're like, okay, well, whatever the way the quote unquote accepting of trans cultures are, treating gender dysphoria or whatever this individual has that leads to more harm. And I don't want autistic kids to die. Like I, in the same way that like an adult woman who is like 30 and I'm like, look, it's gonna be nearly impossible for 30-year-old women to secure a partner within our existing social structure right now.

That hurts them. Right? But it helps the younger version of them. If I was able to get this message to them earlier, and it's the same with someone like Anna Valence, if I had gotten to her at the right time in her life, she might be happily married with kids at a gainful job, contributing to society and, and, and satisfied every time she goes home and, and you know, her, four little kids jump in her arms.

You know, that could be where she is. She could be living the [00:55:00] gladiator life. But she's not, and I'm trying to help people like her not hurt people like her.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or just, you know, living single or whatever and just putting her focus and research into other things that don't hurt herself and other people so much.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If, if she had focused on not indulging in all this de degeneracy publicly and just becoming a good writer

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That, that focused on not slandering people or labeling people, not trying to destroy people's careers, not riding every woke wave, she even admits. What I was trying to find, I remember now was there's a, a, a quote from her where she's like, oh yeah I don't actually want to write articles on Gamergate.

This is early in Gamergate. So you can see this is an individual who likely would've been open to our perspective had it reached her early enough. She's like, I only do it because it pays better and more people read it. You know, so. She caved to all of this stuff early on and in that article she makes fun of Mother Jones.

She makes fun [00:56:00] of other places where she has worked and have paid her to work. Mm-hmm. Because she's like, oh, they're terrible outlets, but they pay. You know, this is an individual who, who already didn't like the life she was living, but was doing it rather than doing the hard thing, which is perfecting her skills outside of the baby stuff.

And that's really sad. I mean, she could do what we do. If you look at our videos, what we do is we do the catchy title cards, which are sort of Beatty. And then in the episode we try to dig into like the actual content right, of, of, of what's happening. Do a deep dive, get you guys information you're not getting anywhere else.

And I think that that's a, a pretty good split the difference, right? You're playing the algorithm, but you're also trying to, to help people see what's really out there. And as I pointed out was this, I mentioned, which hasn't been mentioned by a lot of sources on the right that this article where she has this big fantasy about denying people consent.

She always couches it as a joke. And we've made jokes like that before as well. We just don't go in as much detail and they don't have a lot of correlation with our fetishes. So, yeah, like, we're not getting off on that, but I, I, I want to [00:57:00] stand her side as well. Unfortunately it's just very hard to stand and, and the idea of I am not a pedo. It's like, then why are you doing things with kids?

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: that's the thing that gets me about this, this I'm not a X, I'm not a Y. And what's been really cool is seeing our larger sort of YouTube community come together around this. You know, everyone's been standing kersha, she's explained because of this. Everyone's been standing leaflet over this. And, and YouTubers who I previously wasn't sure what I felt about them, like Ace ended up reporting this individual to the FBI, which I think is absolutely justified.

I would not be surprised if we find really heinous things that this person has done. If you dig a little bit deeper given, given the things that they've justified within their own life, publicly clear, like blind spots, they have, like I'm against phenotypically youthful you know, lude tubers, but I'm not against age plate.

Like what? Like what, what, what? Like, so this is a person who seems to be able to justify anything to themselves. And so this [00:58:00] individual this guy Ace who has a smaller YouTube, I've seen him occasionally mostly just attacking short Fatto taco. And at first I was just like, Ugh. He's like an ultra right curmudgeon.

And I'm like, you know what? No, he's, he's on our team because we've attacked short fighter Otaku before as, as well

Speaker 8: What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

Malcolm Collins: And so I'm like, well, maybe I'm realizing that this like wider circle of YouTubers has a lot more in common. And I think that we need to get better about that, like helping feature each other, helping promote each other and, and, and discussing things with each other.

And I always feel like, Hey, why aren't, why haven't we been on this channel yet? Why haven't we been on the, you know, so I gotta get better at, at, at pinging these people. We do, like for example, I ping Lotus Eaters all the time and for whatever reason he is ever had a son or gotten back to us.

But I assume it's just because, you know, we're not. I've seen him at events, but I'm always afraid to talk to him because I have that look of, is this guy my friend? I feel like I know him really well, but I [00:59:00] don't know from where. And then after the event I'm like, that was sargon of a cod. That's why I thought I knew him.

But at like multiple events now we've, we've gone together. It's spoken at the same time.

Simone Collins: Well, thanks for enlightening me. It is interesting how one person's attempt to cancel another led to a deep dive on them by many people. In, in one of the biggest cellphones at least in this little corner of the internet, the v YouTuber corner of the internet in maybe ever.

So,

Malcolm Collins: well, we've been seeing this repeatedly, like, what we do in the shadows or whatever. That the other guy who tried to cancel somebody this year that we did the piece on.

In Praise of Shadows: so what if he's a conservative? Is that a problem? Which, the answer to that is yes. But the reason that I care is because this does not belong in horror. Or anywhere. I care deeply about horror, and everything that he does has demonstrated so far in his career that he should not be welcomed in our spaces.

Or even, you know, just in public in general.

Malcolm Collins: Every time somebody has [01:00:00] tried to cancel somebody this year, it's been like a ba like punching elastic and their fist flies back and smacks them in the face.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Canceling doesn't work the way it used to, I guess.

Malcolm Collins: No canceling works in reverse now. Mm-hmm. And predominantly in reverse. Now we, we actually even saw this on the right. One of these right wing guys, I wanna say James Lindsay. We've met him at a number of events. But he tried to create this concept of like the woke right, to like further police, like, what's going on, what's in the right?

Okay. And while I do think that we on the right should push pa. Push people out who are just gonna sink our cause. Like, you know, the, the far racist and, and, and antisemites and stuff like that. I think was a fairly big Overton window. Even when people disagree with us pretty severely, we should not be censoring what's being said in our communities if it's promoting the wider agenda.

Mm-hmm. And, and he doesn't think that he wants to, to censor. Pretty significantly what's being said on the right. Mm-hmm. And it's just completely flown back and hit him in the face. Like basically none of the mainstream arguing voices support him in this. And it's been interesting to see that it's not just when the left tries to do this, it's when the right tries to do this as well.[01:01:00]

Simone Collins: Okay. Well that's good because in the end that sanctimonious. Nonsense is tedious and I don't like it, so ha ha. I'm gonna go make Mabo dofu. I'm really excited and I'll see you. I'm gonna, I'm

Malcolm Collins: actually really excited.

Simone Collins: Well, we'll see. If it turns out, I'm gonna try to double up the sauce. So I need to look at what actual scratch Mabo Dofu sauce is, 'cause I know you wanted me to use that pack you got, but you probably also imagine it's too light on the sauce, right?

So. Shall I do that? I don't know the last time you made it by the PAX instructions. It was really good. Okay, then I'll just do that safety first. That'll be easier. All right. An off. I do you actually, actually, I'm, I'm, I'm a couple minutes late for . And the cotton candy machine is, has shipped it

Malcolm Collins: is here. Or shipped? It's shipped. It is shipped. It's not here yet. It is. We wouldn't buy our kids on the cruise, $2 50 cent cotton candy because i's like, that's too expensive. But as soon as we got home, we bought a machine to make cotton candy. One of the industrial ones like you have at fairgrounds as well.

Oh, we bought

Simone Collins: it on point. [01:02:00] Okay. So technically it costs less than $2 and 50 cents because it costs. Nothing but points. I mean, there's obviously the opportunity cost. We could have used those points to buy a necessity, but I just love that what we do is when we see our kids like something, we're like, I'm not gonna buy, you know, I'm not gonna have someone get a fish for me.

I'm gonna buy a fishing boat. Oh, they wanna play on a bouncy house. I won't pay for go to one. I'm gonna buy one that can go in my house. Yes. But no, we've gotten a lot of mileage out of those bouncy hall houses. Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You, you looked at me skeptically when I first got there.

Simone Collins: I did. You're not going outside though that's not getting wet.

It's, you're gonna ruin it instantly. When you do that, every time you take an inflatable or some kind of thing outside, it works one time and then you break it. And I'm not doing it with this.

Yeah, are you seeing everyone watch the movie?

Are you happy I can talk this fast? Hi, [01:03:00] birthday. I can talk that fast.

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