The Sunday Times’ tech correspondent brings on David Barrett, founder of Expensify, to talk about creating a “remote-first” company (3:15), the lounge (6:45), the return-to-office movement (14:15), going public and then getting its shares smashed (17:15), why venture capital is a scam (23:30), why he likes public market investors (30:25), keeping people happy when shares lose 95% of their value (33:35), and the artificial intelligence boom (35:25).

PLUS: The link to our previous episode with Delian Asparouhov, founder of Varda, whose space-factory startup just had its first craft land safely back to earth.

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