This is a free preview of the episode " China Pt. 5: A Socialist Approach to Ecological Development w/ Tings Chak". You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will have access to bi-weekly episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. One of the primary challenges facing Global South countries in the 21st century is the question of sustainable and just development—how do you raise living standards and eliminate poverty, what some refer to as the process of industrialization, without going down the same ecologically destructive and often deadly path that Western capitalist countries went down—the path of slavery, genocide, colonization, and now, a form of neocolonialism that is essentially colonialism in all but name. How can you compete in a global capitalist economy against countries that have no qualms about ethnically cleansing an entire people just so that they can build a "riviera of the Middle East"? Well, this is a massive question that cannot be answered in a single episode, but we can begin to chip away at it and uncover some lessons and explore some evidence-based analyses that can help us to at least understand the alternative approaches that at least some Global South countries are experimenting with—because, despite what the monsters in power want us to think—there are alternatives to capitalism. In this conversation, we've brought on Tings Chak to talk about China's attempts to balance ecological and human development through the lens of a specific environmental project. Tings Chak is the Art Director and Asia Coordinator at Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research and Editor of Wenhua Zongheng. She is the co-author of the recent piece "Reviving Erhai Lake: A Socialist Approach to Balancing Human and Ecological Development" published in Tricontinental. In this conversation, we talk about Erhai Lake—which is the site of a restoration and cleanup project that China has been working on for quite some time now. A decade ago, Erhai Lake was a microcosm of how China's rapid economic development led to ecological devastation. Today, it's an example of quite the opposite—how China aims to move towards its own stated goal of creating an ecological civilization that represents a harmonious balance between ecological and human development. How and why did the Communist Party of China initiate a massive poverty reduction and ecological restoration project across the country, and how does Erhai Lake fit into it? What can be learned from this project by other Global South countries looking for alternatives to the capitalist model of development? And why should we be exploring these questions in the first place? This is just some of what we cover in this conversation between Robert and Tings Chak. Artwork: Tricontinental Further resources: Reviving Erhai Lake: A Socialist Approach to Balancing Human and Ecological Development, by Xiong Jie and Tings Chak Wenhua Zongheng China and CoronaShock Serve the People: The Eradication of Extreme Poverty in China Chinese-Style Modernization: Revolution and the Worker-Peasant Alliance, by Lu Xinyu Without Culture, Freedom Is Impossible: The Thirty-Eighth Newsletter (2022) Culture as a Weapon of Struggle: The Medu Art Ensemble and Southern African Liberation Related episodes: (Chinese) Socialism vs (U.S.) Capitalism Listen to our ongoing series on China Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.