In this eye-opening episode, Malcolm and Simone dive into a fascinating Swedish study that reveals surprising insights about how winning the lottery impacts men and women differently when it comes to marriage and fertility. The study shows that men who win the lottery tend to marry and have more children, while women's fertility doesn't increase, and low-income women often get divorced. The conversation delves into the biological and social factors behind these trends, the importance of men and women working together in marriage, the perils of atomized child-rearing, and the role of income and status in shaping fertility decisions. Join them as they explore the implications of these findings for pronatalist policies and the future of the family.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Okay. I'm really excited. We're talking about this because I saw this and kind of was really surprised.

Malcolm Collins: It's a great graph in terms of providing information that is useful to the perinatalist movement. It's just one of those instances. Where the information is maybe not the information we'd prefer from a palatability

Simone Collins: perspective.

Yeah. And we have to, we have to hat tip. So I got this from Wyvert on Twitter who shared I'm reading his tweet, a remarkable and high quality Swedish study. If men win the lottery, they marry and have children. If women win the lottery, their fertility does not rise. Indeed, low income women get divorced.

You might think more resources means more kids. Yes, with men, not with women, which is fascinating. Totally fascinating.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: So I want to word this a different way because I don't know if you've fully conveyed it. When a man wins the lottery, whether he is poor or wealthy, he is much more likely to have [00:01:00] more kids and he stays with his partner typically.

When a woman wins the lottery, she both does not have more kids and if she is not wealthy, she will often leave her partner. So. From a pronatalist perspective, if you're thinking, where do you do cash handouts? Where do you put money? You do not want to give money to women,

Simone Collins: which is wild because that's where the cash handouts go.

The cash handouts. overwhelmingly go to mothers. When yeah, I, I, I, gosh I don't, I don't even know where to start.

You actually see this in a lot of the old documentation about the charity work being done in Africa, where they're like we're giving money to women because when women have money, they have fewer kids.

Simone Collins: I mean, first I appreciate the information that cash handouts don't work. I think it's very spicy. This idea that like, well, enormous cash handouts. Yeah. Enormous cash handouts. Let's, let's just give cash handouts to men, like men, you know, here's money to [00:02:00] raise kids. What would happen?

You know, let's talk about

Malcolm Collins: like maybe biologically or socially why this phenomenon is happening. Why do men have kids, but women leave their partners? I want to hear your hypothesis

Simone Collins: first. Well, I honestly, I think it's, you could call this trickle down pronatalism. So men. And I think you're very indicative of this, that when they think about having kids, they often kind of think, well, I'm just gonna marry someone and then she'll have and raise the kids, which is totally not what you do.

Obviously, Malcolm, like you are very hands on and raising our kids, but when you were younger. Just thought you were going to have a ton of kids and you weren't really concerned about like how you were going to raise them or how you were going to work that out. Just, you would be very successful and very wealthy and you'd have a lot of kids and it just kind of happens.

And I think a lot of women Turn to men for resources and see men as, as the, Source of resources and stability that enables them to feel very comfortable having kids, [00:03:00] whether or not they maintain a career, which is why I think many of these women who won the lottery left men because they had a different source of and a better source of resources.

So I think the interesting thing, the idea here with triple trickle down pronatalism is if you give more money to men and then They can attract more women and then have more kids because women are more attracted to the men or they're more likely to have

Malcolm Collins: kids. The question exactly. Okay. Okay. Why is it that women when they get more resources, don't just use the resources they have to have kids?

Why is it that they will only have A man's kids for resources.

Simone Collins: Oh I think it's

Malcolm Collins: like, it doesn't make sense what you're saying.

Simone Collins: No, I, no, I I'm bad at articulating things, but I think it's a status thing. Women women seem to be more comfortable having kids when they are pair bonded with a partner who is higher in status than them. Who appears to be the source of resources.

A woman is made. Less [00:04:00] likely to take

Malcolm Collins: a maternal that's a really interesting point you just made

Simone Collins: She's less likely to take a maternal role in life if she sees an increase in appreciation in her status through wealth Because now suddenly the number of bachelors who are actually eligible to her because she has to marry up That's like a very female trait is, is just extremely low.

So now there are fewer men that she can pair bond with. There are fewer men she can marry, and it's going to be really hard for her to settle down with someone and have kids. Whereas with a man suddenly he has a ton more options because now there are more women that who will see him as equal or higher status to them.

Malcolm Collins: So I have a really interesting piece of evidence here that might bolster what you're saying. So my brother's spouse has always said that her goal in her career is to bolster my brother, to make him look, you know, like a bigger deal than, than he might otherwise be. Because I often ask, like, you're doing most of the work.

You have most of the credentials here. Why is he always really.

Simone Collins: [00:05:00] Equal credentials from,

Malcolm Collins: well, they have equal credit. So, so a bit of background here. Both my brother and his wife have MBAs from Stanford. Both of them have degrees undergraduate degrees from St. Andrews, which is a university in the UK. But she is, I'm just going to be honest here.

She's harder working than he is, and more aggressive than he is. Yet, she always frames him as running everything. And I have asked her about this before, and I was like, Why are you doing this? Like, why do you And you do this too, with me, Simone, to an extent.

Simone Collins: I think that's more about, like, gender dimorphism, and what men and women bring to the table.

Men bring Some stuff that doesn't look like man hours, you know, it's more like very, very, very strong.

Malcolm Collins: This is how you are justifying it to yourself. I understand. But if you are a man, you wouldn't say I, who I'm putting in more effort in man hours, is subordinate to you, who puts in less, you being me, who puts in less effort in man hours.

And I do, I genuinely do, you know I put less effort in man hours into everything that we run. Yeah, but

Simone Collins: you [00:06:00] put more value into everything

Malcolm Collins: we run. Well, and that's what you would need to say if you wanted to keep up the charade. It's

Simone Collins: not a

Malcolm Collins: charade. But, Here's what I'd say is that whether it's me or my brother these ultra high value women who are securing I mean, I consider myself an ultra high value male, you know, I'm you are attractive, quote unquote, successful.

You're the real deal. Respected publicly, probably speaking. And some can be accomplished. Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. The question is, is how, how, how are women securing these men? They're creating these men. This is how these ultra high value women get the partners they want if they create their career success.

And then the ultra high

Simone Collins: value women end up staying with their husbands. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Being the woman who's married to the high value man because they've created that high value in the man. [00:07:00] But this then comes to what we're seeing in lottery winners. Where someone like my sister in law or you, they spend a lot of effort trying to uplift their husband because that's what they really care about.

When these women get a lot of money, they want to have children with somebody who is already high status, like that's easier for them or the way that they approach marriage than uplifting their husband in a historic context, this may not have been the case because marriage. And or divorce would have been much more costly.

Like you can, historically, if you were a widower or a divorcee, you couldn't remarry. Certainly not a high value man. And yet many of these women today, and I actually don't think this is true. I think that if you're a divorcee, you will not get a high value man. I'm sorry. You won't.

Simone Collins: What about the woman you married?

Why am I forgetting her name? Wallace Simpson.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Look, it, it happens rarely. Okay. Okay. The point [00:08:00] being that women leave men today to try to look for other men because they think it is easier to get a higher value man now that their status has raised than it is to raise the status of their husband.

Simone Collins: Yeah, or women just aren't comfortable being with a husband who's lower status than them.

Malcolm Collins: But why are they higher status? They just randomly won money. That doesn't make them higher status.

Simone Collins: I mean, it kind of does, like, it just makes it so much harder to be with them. I keep, I know I'm still, I'm still binge watching financial audit by Caleb hammer on YouTube, and I just keep watching these couples and it, you know, I think it's really hard for spouses to respect, especially female spouses to respect male spouses who.

Just aren't contributing at their level and aren't at their level. Cause it keeps showing up in these interviews. I, I, I just [00:09:00] doubt, I doubt what you're saying. And I just think what part, what part? That, that women suddenly think like that just because they have money. They're not higher status than their husband's.

That's just not how it's seen. Mm. 'cause now they can afford all these things. They and their husbands became,

Malcolm Collins: you became higher status than me. Would you leave me? What? What happens if you won a billion dollars through the lottery? Would you

Simone Collins: like, I think we're talking about when, keep in mind, because this also shows up in the Swedish study, it was only.

Lower economic status women who were divorcing. It wasn't a good point. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah. I think once you reach a certain level, it doesn't really matter that much. And you know

Malcolm Collins: that you can use the money to uplift your husband because it might be a competency issue. Like if your husband is a semi successful lawyer and you win a billion dollars, you can do a lot with that.

Simone Collins: Your husband, you have

Malcolm Collins: something to work with that billion dollars. You can make him better. You know, but if he's yeah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. It's their belief in their husband's [00:10:00] ability to improve and properly deploy capital. That is what's at stake here. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of it. Then I want to take this story in a different direction because there's something that, well, actually before we do this, do you think women should be allowed to own property given that this is the

Simone Collins: case?

Yes. 100%. I mean, look, look back at Sparta, like, right. This was a very. Male friendly culture, you could argue and women 100 percent were the property people. I don't know if they technically own the property or whatever, but like they were on it. I don't think this is about property ownership. I do think that what we're seeing is a profound misunderstanding of the social dynamics that need to be.

Play to encourage men and women to have kids. And what men need is resources. And what women need is high status men. And we, we talked about that other sub stack post a while ago, where, where the author theorized that like the real solution to pronatalism is to get rid of [00:11:00] bureaucracies and to generally economically disempowered women and economically.

I'm sorry, I need to

Malcolm Collins: clarify what she means by that statement. disproportionately succeed within bureaucratic environments due to gender differences between men and women. If you get rid of large bureaucracies, you will systemically disempower women in a society, but not necessarily in a bad way, in a way that may lead to them finding more men desirable because women want partners who they see as better

Simone Collins: than them.

Yeah. Basically he was saying we need to give men. The ability to thrive once again economically and, and professionally, because we are not allowing that anymore, really. And besides getting rid of bureaucracy, it'd be amazing. So I was cool with that argument. But yeah, I think that this is tied to that argument that he was making that like a big problem we have now.

Is that men are not given opportunities to be higher status than women. And it is very, very difficult for women to get interested in men who are not high status. We even saw this when we did that [00:12:00] matchmaking experiment where we had a bunch of people fill out a form and put in, you know, like their, their, their criteria.

And what they cared about and their values. And we tried to match people based on their values and criteria. And instead we saw that women had very out of whack expectations. They really wanted an incredibly high status man and the high status man really didn't care that much about status. He cared more about her being kind of young and hot.

So that was a

Malcolm Collins: lot of young, hot people in this world. There's not a lot of height

Simone Collins: that it's meant when guess what? They're more born every single day. They just keep making them. And the more, the older you get, the more there are young and hot people out there. It's an, it's insane. It's, this is a losing battle.

Malcolm Collins: But, but, you know, the, the status that you've taken and my brother's wife taken, which I think is really interesting and I think shows the correct choice for a woman.

Simone Collins: Is to build up her husband.

Malcolm Collins: Marry early, marry the type of guy who is diligent, hardworking, and intelligent, and cares for you, and appreciates what you do for him, [00:13:00] and build him up.

Simone Collins: Well, but right, that, the other element of this, on the guy's side though, which I think we've talked about occasionally, is, To get the fixer upper girl. She doesn't need to be completely politically aligned with you. She needs to be open minded and sufficiently intelligent to have her mind changed if she's presented with compelling evidence and it's better.

I remember you telling me when we were like early dating that it was very. Important for you to date girls who did not wear a ton of makeup, who had not had a ton of work done, who were not really good at styling, because then you knew that you could do it. Buy an appreciated, appreciating asset. If you went after, I know you wanted to fix your upper it's like, but it makes sense, right?

If you're, if you're looking for an appreciating asset on the housing market, I bought

Malcolm Collins: you, I bought you for your.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You, you bought a beautiful

Malcolm Collins: fixer upper. Not your career. Cause you were very early in your career at that point, but your career potential, and your work ethic, your [00:14:00] intelligence and your curiosity.

And I knew in all other aspects, you were a fixer upper, which only meant you were an appreciating asset.

Simone Collins: Right. Right. You buy, you buy the rundown, but old and very sturdy house that is the worst looking house in a really nice neighborhood. Buy a house with good bones.

Malcolm Collins: And you fix it up. Marry a partner with

Simone Collins: good bones.

And the problem is that most guys that we know who are dating want to buy a house in a brand new neighborhood that was either built in a very cheap new construction or was recently flipped. And if you just chip away a wall, like it falls apart, you know, this is none of this is real. It is all either.

Plastic surgery that's going to wear off soon or it's makeup or it's styling

Malcolm Collins: or it's filters. We live in a house made in the 1790s. A lot of people out there are buying McMansions. Like who do you think deals is more house problems? We almost never have house problems. Yeah, this thing's like a rock. And people come and they are impressed with it.

And they're like, wow, this is so regal. You want a woman. Who's like a house from , [00:15:00] the 1790s, not a house from the 1970s.

We'll record a longer video on this at some point, but this really reminds me of the modern controversy about like country girls not being womanly enough.

Because women are defining womanliness by what womanliness was during the age of clueless.

Good morning, y'all. Quick update on the house, because I've been pretty terrible about giving y'all these.

This went viral on Twitter with the caption, This accent needs to be illegal, and women should be banned from doing manual labour like this. There is nothing feminine about American women. American women are literally men. The person giving this white hot take is Samira Khan. In her view, the guys that like Hannah Barron can't be straight men,

lebanese women are literally perfect, and they're actually feminine, unlike estrogen deficient American women

Simone Collins: well, or even worse 1990s, the noughties, they look good. They look great. They look like they're the Instagram models of houses. But I think the important thing to, to come away with here though, is [00:16:00] that men and women.

Need different types of resources to be inspired to have kids and to be comfortable having kids And a well resourced man or a well resourced partner Is a better resource to a woman or better incentive to have children to a woman then Personal money then spending money then subsidies

Malcolm Collins: then here we're going to talk about the second graph Which is to say well then shouldn't we well, let's let's read what the tweet says yes, it's by Bennett's Phylactery

Simone Collins: he says, this is why you get the horseshoe graph.

If you qualify for welfare, someone else pays for the kids. Otherwise you need 200 to 250k to make the math work. About 7 percent of U. S. households. And just to

Malcolm Collins: clarify what he's showing here, it's showing a fertility rate by income level. And it shows that on average a family that is non-white goes back above re fertility rate when they're super wealthy.

Starting at around three, I don't [00:17:00] know, like, like 215 K per year. Yeah. Whereas white families don't go above every population rate again until they're around like 350 a year.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And that both white and non white populations see their fertility plummet. Once they are making between 25 and 50 K a year.

And that is exactly when all the government subsidies for childcare, for healthcare and for food disappear. And it is genuinely astounding how much, at least in the United States, because we had perennialist. org, look at all the state resources for parents. How much is available? To parents who are living at or around or below the poverty line so you can get free, quite commonly free childcare, free food, free medical care.

It is. It's amazing. But that that is. What, what he's pointing out here in a follow up tweet, he writes, this doesn't mean people can't quote unquote afford to have kids. It means they [00:18:00] can't afford to pay someone else to raise them, which is indeed a historical privilege of the aristocracy. So interestingly, it is kind of true.

That what these social service programs are essentially doing for those who utilize them, those with very low income levels, is enabling them to raise children like the aristocracy in a culture that doesn't really support family based child rearing or community based child rearing. So in a world in which child rearing is atomized and made a very economic commodity that everyone has to pay for on a one off basis, the only way That you're going to be able to raise kids sustainably or affordably is by either having someone else completely pay for it, let the government be your trust fund or to have a trust fund, or just make a ton of money.

What's

Malcolm Collins: the, there's some followup about how any country that cares about this population, like women should.

Simone Collins: Oh, you had shared with me another tweet. I did not know if this was connected because it was just a [00:19:00] screenshot that you, you shared with me. But it was someone saying, and this makes me, angry. I just hate this.

I don't hate the person who tweeted it, but I'm not going to say their name because I'm saying that I hate what they said. Feminism is a nation killer because the whole point of it is to extract labor from the woman that should be going into raising children and redirect it to various useless people.

Parasites. And the PSYOP is so good that they even get women to cheer for this outcome. And actually functional nation would exclude women aged 18 to 40 from full time workforce. And you'd see a reduction in house prices, rents, high taxes, wasteful government spending, foreign aid, and all the other useless things Garbage.

So everyone would have the same level of material wealth, except we wouldn't be going extinct. And I'm just so sick of the, the go to conservative response to demographic collapse of like, well, our problem is that we let women work. Because women have been working for f*****g ever. Okay. They've been working and raising kids and they've been doing it with [00:20:00] their communities.

But there's a

Malcolm Collins: great graph of this, which shows that what you really had was that, I'll put it here,

that women used to work about as much as men. And then the rate that women worked went down over a time was technological inventions. And it went up in the seventies. The idea of taking women outta the workforce is an anma to women's history.

Women used to

Simone Collins: work temporary aberration.

Honestly, now that I think about it, I'm a little confused as to how people was like even a base knowledge of history could buy into this system that traditional women didn't work. I mean, we knew in hunter gatherer times, the women did. Steady work that would feed the family. I E gather and men would do the more risky work that would bring in the big kills I E.

Hunt. But even during the early agricultural period, I mean, women worked the farm to do. Do they think that women, and not only that, but when it wasn't farming season, if anything, women worked more than men, because they would often be doing the sewing and stuff like that, which would then be [00:21:00] sold in the local communities.

I mean. W, I guess it was like a period of like 20 years where women didn't really need to work due to technological advances. Maybe 50 years max, but it was short.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And we, you, you and me. Would be so screwed if I didn't work. You, like, why would, imagine if I just turned to you and I was like, Hey, Malcolm, how about you just do all of the work now? And I'm just going to chill here at home with the kids. I'm not going to help us make money.

We

Malcolm Collins: can be fine. Because I'm not as competent as you and I'm not as hard working

Simone Collins: as you. No, no. We just have, we bring, like I keep saying, we bring very different skills to the table and without both of us bringing those skills to the table, we are. Completely economically and professionally hamstringed.

And this is another one of those big shames of the atomization of, of society. And that married couples are 100 percent looking at their careers as being totally separate. And in the end, they both kind of suck at what they do [00:22:00] because they're not really combining their different skills that should be overlapping or not overlapping.

Should we call it

Malcolm Collins: marriage is to cover your blind spots. Yes. Hello. To work together because you are not perfect. No human is. And to look for somebody who covers all of the parts of you. Yeah. That you fail at. And then utilize that in both a professional and domestic sense, you know, as a parent. You covered the things I'm not good at.

I covered the things you're not good at as a somebody who's taking care of the home. You covered the things I'm not good at. I covered the things you're not good at. And professionally, it's the same. Like the idea that you would attempt to tackle any of this alone. I just can't even fathom.

Simone Collins: It's insane.

And yet there's so many people who've just decided that the problem is women getting educated. The problem is women working. When no, the problem is that. Couples are no longer becoming couples. They're not even coordinating on anything anymore. They're not working together anymore. Communities are not working and coordinating anymore.

You know, it also used to be that [00:23:00] communities were stronger.

Malcolm Collins: Like the get in the kitchen, right? Like this famous line, right? Like the woman's role is making a sandwich. It's this was true of poor families historically, like Poor dysfunctional families that had no status in society. This was not true of wealthy families.

Historically, usually the women played a large part in the economic management of the family's assets. Like you are emulating poor trash humans, basically, when you take on these positions, even from a historic perspective.

Simone Collins: What would we call trailer trash before? Oh no, we would just call them gypsies.

Oh God. There were always people in trailers and we still were mean to them.

Malcolm Collins: No, I, we'd call them serfs. Serfs were the original. Not even serfs, because serfs worked. They were, they were probably like low class merchants or something. Hmm. But yeah, I mean, The idea that you would have someone like think about on the frontier, [00:24:00] right?

The type of person who like kept his wife in the kitchen. This was like your severe drunkard, like barely able to handle himself. Glass of whiskey everywhere. He went, you know, falling over, yelling at trees. Like trees,

Simone Collins: that's funny because it's true. No, it is true.

Malcolm Collins: It was like a thing back then. This is not, you're like a competent individual.

You know, you look at like Abigail Adams and John Adams, for example, right? Right.

Simone Collins: These are two very hardworking people who did real work and who collaborated deeply. You know, everything they did was together. It was not separate. Abigail played a crucial role as an advisor and a sounding board to John Adams.

And, and she also ran their properties and farms. And

Malcolm Collins: when he was on his trips doing his like me promoting the podcast, I'm out promoting the podcast. You're running our companies, right? Like. It's, it's, it's the [00:25:00] way that the elite of humanity has always functioned. We just forgot.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But again, we, so, you know, coming back to like, why not, why not give women money?

Why not have women win the lottery or give them subsidies? It's, I just can't really see ever having the comfort to do all of that in isolation by myself. I know a lot of people talk about doing it by themselves and a lot of people end up doing it by themselves, but it's really freaking hard.

Malcolm Collins: It's a perversion of the joint bank account.

It's a perversion of, I'm sorry, the non joint bank account, the separate bank accounts in a married couple, the separate identities in a married couple. You're not willing to combine who you are with somebody else. And you're probably not willing to be married. Well, you're probably

Simone Collins: not willing to give your life to children as well, right?

Yeah, the

Malcolm Collins: Pregnant's Guide to Crafting Religion, when we talk about like our religious structure, we sort of frame life as an iterative movement away from the self. Like you start as a child. This thing that like needs [00:26:00] from its environment around it, needs from its family, you're nothing but a drain on those around you.

Then, but you, you are also singular, then you become a self sufficient individual and like a totally independent individual. Then you become married and you become a partner to someone else. You become part of a holistic team where you are half of that team. Then you become part of a family, right?

Where you are the head of the family or, or one of the heads of the family. And so far as you are guiding the next generation, guiding these next hungry individualists. And then you die and you become a memory and part of the family tradition. And the, this is a journey when properly pursued as a journey away from individualism and towards an ethereal memory.

And the individuals who cling to whatever stage of this cycle. They cling to this individualist stage or they cling to this. I want me, me, me, me, me more, you know, that's what the, the [00:27:00] individual, like a Chris Chan or something is doing. The individual who lives off the state, the individual who lives off society, me, me, me, me, me, always me.

They never really evolved past this childlike stage. Or even the secondary individual, the individual who's always an individual always must be independent. You know, they're always in this sort of teenage. version of themselves or the individual who's always their married partner, you know, not a family, right?

Like they're always in this early married, early thirties version of themselves, right? Anyway.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Huh. So how how palatable do you think this is going to be? You know, give men money. Only give them

Malcolm Collins: money? All, all income should go straight to the man. That's what we'll say.

Simone Collins: Not, but no, see, that's the thing is I am against this idea of financially and legally disempowering women.

That is not the point. Women should have property rights. They should have, you know, they should have access to Yes. Yes. [00:28:00] Yes, I think the problem though is because I mean, you can see it creates a ton of adverse incentives when someone has the ability to with impunity. Make a lot of decisions around property.

And also it creates, so in our relationship, for example, you make the final call on everything you, you, if I say no, you can veto something you, it is ultimately your decision, but the reason why that's powerful and the reason why you are always going to be incentivized to make good decisions is, you know, that in the end, if you make a decision that I'm super not cool with, that's the end of our marriage.

Period. You're gone. Like you have no more Simone as a resource. It's gone. And you don't want that. So you're not going to make decisions that I'm not going to be okay with. You may make decisions that I'm uncomfortable with, or you may ultimately obligate me to do the responsible thing that I don't have the self control to do, which I really appreciate.

And that's usually whenever I'm not exactly on board. It's not because I disagree with you. It's because I don't want to But if you take that away [00:29:00] and there is no out for the women, there is no financial recourse. There is no, there is no way for them to exit. There is less of an incentive to make the right decision.

And I could always trust you, even if you. 100 percent have control of all the property. And I, as a woman had zero rights, I know that I could trust you to make the right decision.

Malcolm Collins: But we have the alternate scenario here. She manages all of our bank accounts, all of our investments. I don't even know where the money is with our crypto and stuff like that.

You tortured me. I'd be like, I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. It's hard.

Simone Collins: It's I, anyway I, I think a lot of people. Could not be trusted with that level of power and oversight, even though I could trust you with it. You

Malcolm Collins: trust me with it because I trust you with all the

Simone Collins: actual stuff. It's true. I have all, I have all the power.

So I guess, yeah, because you gave it all to me, even though you didn't have I gave it all to her out

Malcolm Collins: of laziness, by the way, this stuff is hard. And I don't [00:30:00] like thinking about it. You know,

Simone Collins: I don't necessarily want it either.

Malcolm Collins: Dislike of gambling to the level where like, I hate investment because like, it feels like gambling I'm forced to do to be financially responsible.

What on

Simone Collins: earth? Right? So screwed up.

But you, Hey, you did a gamble in Las Vegas, right? And then you put in, I gambled a dollar. It was very difficult in the slot machine. And we won. It just was on a very

Malcolm Collins: the situation, it did a thing.

And you can pull it a surprising number of times for 1. I thought it might be 1 for one pull, but no, I get to pull it up many times.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I guess now I understand why people can sit in front of slot machines in Las Vegas for so long, because it was getting to the point where we were really ready to go.

But we felt like we had to go through the whole dollar.

Malcolm Collins: Right. So yeah, we've got to pull to the end. Pull, pull, pull. It was weird. Yeah, I don't, I don't recommend gambles. [00:31:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah, I

Malcolm Collins: don't recommend. You know what? That's what I think of the genetic thing, like gambling, stuff like that. It's like, are you programmed to get a big hit from these environments?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, what I'm saying about women and property is that we need. A free market. I'm very much a believer in free markets. If you do not subject people to market pressures, then that the invisible hand work things out in a natural way, because what is a free market, but the human complicated, civilizational level version of, of evolution, you know?

So if you take that away and you, you artificially disempower one class of society, one group, one sex, whatever, then you're going to start to get market inefficiencies. And so we need a free market. I love for you the core

Malcolm Collins: sin is market inefficiencies.

Simone Collins: Well, it, that's what it creates. And that's why I don't like it.

Like we are, like you said [00:32:00] in an earlier conversation, we had very results oriented people. So obviously if wokeism or communism or socialism or whatever it might be, stuff that we're not necessarily super on board with was proven right. We'd be fully on board. Like we're there. Show us, show us how it works.

And we're there. So if disempowering women and sending them back to the kitchen and taking away their bank accounts and whatever it may be created the society that we thought was ideal, that would create human flourishing, that would get us off planet, that would help us overcome all of our shortcomings, 100 percent take it away.

Okay. But that's just not what would happen. And I'm so sick of all these, and it's always guys, but sometimes pick me women but not really pick me women because they're not even capable of making these arguments in a very articulate fashion saying, that's the problem. It's women getting educated. It's women going into work.

And that's,

Malcolm Collins: I love you so much, Simone. And I am [00:33:00] so excited that we have this podcast together and we're about to pass the 10, 000 numbers. So let's see. I don't know.

Simone Collins: Yes. Okay. So please, if you're listening to this and Yes, we have punchable faces or whatever, but if you have enjoyed, or you just want other people to want to punch our faces, here's what you should do.

Go steal someone's iPhone. Cause you probably don't have one cool. People don't have iPhones, do they? Except for their like really rich tech DVCs or people who are trying to front. So go find someone with an iPhone or an iPad, log in to. Apple podcasts, give us a five star review so that more people can find and hate us.

And also if you are on YouTube, please like, and

Malcolm Collins: subscribe.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, you're probably going to end up on Kiwi farms or encyclopedia dramatica. I'm

Malcolm Collins: surprised we're not on Kiwi farms yet. There's not

Simone Collins: enough. There's not enough lol. Cow.

Malcolm Collins: We're not, we're not enough of a low cow on.

I will work harder. I will endeavor to be, need the lollies of cows.

Simone Collins: No, you have to like absolute, actually lose your s**t. So like, you know [00:34:00] the people, people like making fun of that kid who, when you say something to them, then they squeal like a little pig and start freaking out. And I think that's a more common Yeah, we, we

Malcolm Collins: like the negative attention a little too much.

Mm-Hmm.

Simone Collins: or too much. And so it's not fun because it's not fun to bully someone when they're like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I'm hanging out on the QE. This is cool. You guys are paying

Simone Collins: attention. You should, you should talk about this thing too.

It just, then no, then it becomes homework. So I'm, I'm afraid you're kind of doomed on that front and I'm sorry, but it's a, it's a truth.

It's a six hand truth.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, actually, we need one of our fans to create the Kiwi farms page for us. So that it is always actually managed by somebody who doesn't hate

Simone Collins: us? No, no, it has to be managed by someone who actually hates us and things that we're amusing, but it just doesn't work. It doesn't work. I don't think we're ever going to end up there.

And maybe

Malcolm Collins: I will work hard to prove you wrong on that.

Simone Collins: [00:35:00] Well, you're going to have to like. I don't know. I'll roofie you, I guess. And then you'll have to run. You already have! Why am I married to you? We're going to that New York event on Friday. So I will roofie you. I will take away your clothes. And then I will just punt you out of the hotel room.

And then maybe You know, something will happen. I put a body cam on you.

Malcolm Collins: So that they see me running around saying my wife has abandoned

Simone Collins: me. I, I mean, I honestly do not know what it would take, but yeah, I, I think also like a very common element of Kiwi Farms lolcows is that they have a very Big lack of self awareness.

Malcolm Collins: People think I have a lack of self awareness.

Simone Collins: And I think you have enough of a sense of self awareness or I'm so much like you slash I am you. And you're just recording this two times over cross dressed as me, where

Malcolm Collins: I love that conspiracy theory. This is a real conspiracy theory [00:36:00] about us, by the way, but it's

Simone Collins: true because obviously, and why else are we in separate rooms?

Why else are we

Malcolm Collins: in separate rooms? Could be use like makeup and, and, and a different outfit. Yeah. maybe a few years apart with hormones.

Simone Collins: Not really because my face is super deformed but nevertheless I think for example, even Ayla doesn't really have a Kiwi farms page. A lot of people are just like, can you believe her in her surveys?

She doesn't include trigger warnings. Like there's nothing on her there because she's very self aware. So even people who you would think would be great, you know, who say very outlandish things.

Malcolm Collins: I think about Ayla recently, and I almost want to do a full episode on this. Is she's like, is he, is he a Zaki anime?

I don't know if you'll know. He has Aki enemies. This

Simone Collins: is anime. No, no, sorry. No, no, no. He's a Kai. Is that The tapas of Japan. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: That's why I said Iizaki. Anyway. So a character. No, I think it's Iizakai. Iizakai. Anyway, character ends up dying, waking up in a [00:37:00] different world. Ayla, yet again, released her stats on things like showers, rates of sex, rates of going outside, and people are like, Oh my God, like she showers.

What? Like, I don't know, like a few, twice a week or something. Like not as much as you would expect, you know, with a lot of people. And I am just convinced that she is. And Isekai from like a different parallel universe, there was some like fat gamer, anime nerd, red pill guy, right, who got reincarnated as a full all stats character in our reality.

Simone Collins: Max attractive, max smart. Max

Malcolm Collins: smart, max attractive, max everything.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And he's like, Oh God, what do I do with my life? What? I can just have sex for money now. This is awesome. What? I can just like bend my entire life [00:38:00] doing random research and everyone respects me. What? I can just.

Simone Collins: She puts up with a lot of s**t, Malcolm.

A lot of people don't respect her and they don't understand that because she is Well, what I don't understand is that people She's also, she outwholesomes pretty much everyone I know. She is more wholesome.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, absolutely. If you know her personally, she's incredibly wholesome. She's, well,

Simone Collins: she's earnest.

She's honest. She's intellectually humble. She's even, like, she wants to have a family. She supports her family. She's there for her sisters. Like, I'm sorry. Do you do that?

Malcolm Collins: I don't think so. It's the fat guy with the Cheeto dust always dies, jumping in front of a train, saving a girl

Simone Collins: or something. Well, yeah, and he has his harem, and the harem comedy is pretty good.

Because he's just such a nice guy. That's why he

Malcolm Collins: gets reincarnated in many ways. It's the best Isekai reincarnation, the best gift for being this otherwise perfectly honorable character. Honestly, you could make an anime about Aayla's life. Where she is an Isekai

Simone Collins: character. There are like 10 different anime angles on Aayla's life because she's that cool.

And I think it would

Malcolm Collins: [00:39:00] be fantastic anime.

Simone Collins: Any anime about Aayla would be fantastic. She's just, It would be

Malcolm Collins: like the Harry Potter

Simone Collins: messes of rationality. No, the one that I want to watch either the, the, the Food Wars version of Aayla's life, where it's about like, you learn about her research through completely outlandish episodes that involve competitions.

Or I would want to watch the Thermae Romee version of an ELA anime where it's, you know, like somehow, like I want the instructional element of it. I just want that. But

Malcolm Collins: wait, Thermite Roommate on Netflix is terrible.

Simone Collins: I accidentally Not the new one! The original! Obviously

Malcolm Collins: original Thermite Roommate.

People might not know this. It's one of the best animes ever made. The new Thermite Roommate that's like on, I don't know if it's on Netflix. There's some Trash. Couldn't watch it. Horrible. Trash. Trash. Trash. Inpalatable. You have to pirate it, okay? Sorry. No, don't pirate anything. Pirating is illegal. I think you can just watch it

Simone Collins: on YouTube.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I think you can just

Simone Collins: watch where we found it. It's fantastic. The original. [00:40:00] Yeah. Don't you dare? Don't you dare watch the new one? Anyway, I, gosh, I just miss you. I love talking

Malcolm Collins: with you. Might not know this and I should know, like I've been really disappointed in our episode quality. Recently. And it's because the episodes we've been airing recently, we're doing a period where we were prepping for a big backlog because we were going to travel, you know, last weekend I was in New Hampshire, the weekend before that I was in Las Vegas speaking at various conferences and Simone super pregnant and, you know, we're super behind on a lot of work.

So we're just like, Oh, let's prep on weekends. We'll do like. 10 episodes in a day, but it led to us filming episodes where I felt like I had sort of run out of ideas by the end of the day. And that were kind of bad. But we needed to build this backlog if we're going to stick with a daily upload schedule.

And I'm sorry we did that to you guys and hopefully that won't happen again. I know we're building another backlog for when she is having the kid. Cause she's like, I probably won't be able to record for a week or so. But other than that, yeah, I'm, I'm sorry. [00:41:00] We have not been at the quality that I would like to be in terms of a baseness, spiciness and new takes.

Simone Collins: We'll get back on that train. We'll get back on the spice train. The spice must flow

Malcolm Collins: the spice must flow. Oh my God. Simone, you know what you're all about. You are

Simone Collins: like a nerd. I don't even know. Oh God. Oh, all right. Hot dog night.

Malcolm Collins: Let's do it tonight. She's making hot dogs and we cut them up and we put them in a little Hawaiian buns, which are sweet and then they put them into a shallots, which I'm getting today and some fancy sauces, which I collect and I'm very, very, very excited for my little hot dog buns.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So you, you cut the rich person onions. I'll do everything else. You get to go.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah

Simone Collins: It's

Malcolm Collins: on friend as we call shallots rich person onions because uncle roger because uncle roger says that we are we are made of we are Our men of culture are made of culture. Yes [00:42:00] and

Simone Collins: status We learn all of our cooking information from uncle roger as everyone should and well that in food wars Uncle

Malcolm Collins: roger

Simone Collins: God bless.

All right. I love you. I love you too. Malcolm

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