The SFFaudio Podcast #843 – Jesse and Cora Buhlert discuss Mistress Of Mellyn by Victoria Holt

Talked about on today’s show:
Eleanor Alice Burford, two others, gothic romances, multigenerational family dramas, every book focused on a different woman from the same family, to name a doll, Harlequin Romances, her maiden name, historical novels, mysteries, mixed up with someone else?, early lesbian fiction?, this particular book is not very lesbian, specialized in straight romance novels, wrote a really long time, her best known pen-name, her first Victoria Holt novel, an excellent read, a little over 10 hours, a hardcover publication, the book that started the gothic romances, inspired by earlier books, women fleeing, very very good, how good it was, discovered something, aiming for, a phenomenon in the world happening, Jesse gets it now, sell a lot of books, used books, romance novels, they’re addicted, straight up romance novel, ridiculous and silly, the genre, making a distinction, gothics, romance, gothic romance, in comics, she’s interesting, she’s got something wrong with her, neurotic?, what it is, this is like escapism, a fantasy series, Dragonlance, really fun, teaches you nothing, escaping from the world, fantasy is the same thing, learning to swordfight in a book, fun but teaches you nothing, escaping their life, she’s not neurotic, overthinking things, her own experience of the world, what evolutionary purpose does it serve, gothic romances are like amateur detective novels, Tommy and Tuppence, Agatha Christie style, mysteries, cozy mysteries about cupcake bakers, it wasn’t their friend who was murdered, these are detective novels, and the mystery is, an menace, is this man the right person to marry, Jane Austen, the Byronic hero, Lord Byron, Mr Right and Mr Wrong, its a parody of the 18th century gothic, they’re absolutely connected, a descendant, what makes it so much better, hints of the supernatural, she looked like a fey, are you fey?, no wereford, don’t go out on the moors, the little people will pull you into a bog, supernatural threat, all the feelings that she has are justified, the final scene before the afterword, having the rugged pulled out from under me, perfectly red herringed all the way through, she would be the one, the killer, the source of all the weird happenings, totally surprised, skilled writing and fun to try and figure out if this is a suitable man for her, are these feelings I have all in my head, very standoffish, inappropriate kiss, aloof, 1980s, first person, the POV of the woman, the man is the mystery, he’s always flirting with you, go off to Australia, often such a guy, she needs to investigate, the mystery of who am I gonna marry, Philip K. Dick, what’s the difference between men and women, some time in the 19th century, later 19th century, trains, 1860 or up to 1890, described the clothing, men are different from women, women gestate babies for 9 months, a woman needs to be circumspect about the man she marries, lots of money vs. a little money, very little power, she’s poor, a gentlewoman, Jane Austen onward, gentry, find a job, governess, companion to a rich elder woman, worse jobs, not respectable jobs, a streetwalker, a high class prostitute, an actress, she doesn’t think she’s pretty, she is pretty, a romance trope, the heroine never thinks of herself as pretty, we don’t want her to be vain, not relatable, to the female reader, nice qualities, kind to the one kid, the non-verbal girl, a fairy child who got run over by a cart or something, she never married, just a servant to an old woman, telling this story, her great grandchildren, the room with two skeletons in it, snaps her out of her coma, two minutes ago, story’s over, she really strung me along, this book would make a great choose your own adventure, a Jane Austen based humorless one, an Austen scholar, aimed at teenagers, translated from English, because we don’t know he’s a good guy, I went and saw, as soon as she finds the diary, medallion or necklace back, contradicts the official story, turn to page 78, he chokes you to death, he murdered his wife, a mix of two previous famous books, Charlotte Brontë, Daphne Du Maurier, Rebecca, Jane Eyre, Martha, previous wife, mysterious presence, said to be dead but isn’t, are you okay with me spoiling these two, mentally ill, locked up in the attic, died in a storm, a lot of ghosts in this book, provoked him into murder, couldn’t just divorce, the big house burns down, the body of the wife and her sailboat, terminal cancer, the murderer, similarities to Rebecca, both set in Cornwall, an inversion of the most famous Sherlock Holmes story, The Hound Of The Baskervilles, Dartmoor, a Canadian who inherits the estate, Watson is the viewpoint character, the woman in danger is Sir John Baskerville, the neighbors are a brother and sister, an astronomer, the other one likes flowers, like a gothic romance, just a straight up murder mystery, wrote well into the 1980s, probably worth reading, historical, the formula’s older, rediscovered, perfected, Sir John Baskerville falls in love with the sister across the moor, the neighbour astronomer, wanted to inherit the estate, make the baronet close, kill him too, the final distant heir, the girl falls in love, I don’t want my husband to kill you, all very solid, that is not perceived as a romance, an amateur detective, hiding in a cave, investigating this spooky old house, not a gothic romance, what makes it a gothic romance, the possibility of marrying in, what does Connan Tremellyn do for a living?, goes on business trips, could have been red herrings, a rich landowner, tenant farmers, my money is in slaves, my money is in rum, Mansfield Park, do we want to marry him?, she marries the younger son, what makes this book so interesting and significant, investigating along, not knowing right up to the end, the appeal of this, beautiful women fleeing castles at night with a high lit window, this is part of a woman’s mind, I’m dating this guy, he’s physically stronger, he could hurt me, how do I know that he is good?, Joanna Russ, scholarly article, another person’s blog post, neither love stories, adventure stories with passive protagonists, she’s the opposite of that, the actions she takes, she takes this job, then she realizes this kid is traumatized, needs to get back on the horse, why the book is so long, lemme raise this kid, not as brain damaged, teach her letters, worrying about this journal she found, writes a letter to the previous governess, presents that information, she is doing an active investigation, whenever men are giving her gifts, almost a swordfight parrying, verbal techniques rather than physical techniques, great dialogue, all the men are sinister but no men in this book are evil, an evil woman, the wife is coded as evil, slave plantations, Caribbean, she’s mentally ill because she’s mixed race, am I going crazy?, is this a dream?, why is she always second guessing?, that’s the quality of she’s doing the investigation, not taking everything at face value, when presented with the horse, the right instinct, the stabling of this horse, the reason that guy is a bad guy, he’s not thinking things through, what we would think of a little suspect, realistic character flaws, cheating on my first wife, a very elderly husband, I’m disaffected, when I marry you, don’t listen to the rumors, Victoria Holt tricking us very effectively, the formula that birthed the gothic romance, the new explanation, when the elderly sir died, this is why this book is so long, he wasn’t a useless character, he was a red herring, he might have been murdered, suspected poison, is she being used?, sure looks like it, is she gonna go confront him?, at any of the points where she’s questioning what to do, the gothic novel boom had ended by the 80s, not enough overlap, sensuality and kissing, there’s implied sex, on screen there’s kissing that’s it, The Flame And The Flower by Kathleen E. Woodiwiss, half-rape, Heartquest Dungeons & Dragons romance novel, not a true romance, you literally are going on a quest to save your village, bad water in the well, cute guy, to expand the customer base to girl, the most popular German one, The Dark Eye, a German D&D knock off, early sword & sorcery, nerdy guys, more Tolkienesque, specialty import shops, advertised on television, mainstream board game company, was it available in East Germany, it would fit, on a train in 1989, 16 years old, a city partnership, for the fall of the east europe, the other person is just like me, what was then the Soviet Union, Latvia, student exchange, see for myself what its like, 3 days from Bremen, Berlin to St. Petersburg, for obvious reasons, endless three day train ride, two guys had the dark eye, Poland, someone probably did play it in East Germany, didn’t care about board games, gothic romance choose your own adventure, write those extra scenes, end up murdered, shoved into the murder hole, the old priest’s hole, there’s a skeleton in there, yay!, perfectly reasonable to expect, crazy woman locked in the attic, child locked in the basement, buried alive, Edgar Allan Poe, essentially a perfect book, long but justified, a murder mystery, the romance, 8 and half hours in when he asks her to marry, mostly it’s about the kids, common gothic thing, I want to marry you, Mr Darcy is besotted with Elizabeth, dude what are you doing, the only threat is his eyebrows and his gloominess, the mysterious unknowable, mad bad and dangerous to know, Lord Byron left the country, they are stay at homes, having to flee the country, the scandal is so great, Bluebeard, there is a Bluebeard scene in this book, Bros. Grimm, The Castle Of Murder, Fitcher’s Bird, three daughters, take her away, I would like to marry your eldest daughter, third time, the only sister, parents what are you doing, she’s very suspicious, here are the keys to any room in the house, do not go in there, oh and take this egg and carry it with you always, an old woman skinning guts, chopped up in a bowl, egg to drop and get stained, the truth is out, this bluebeard character, murdering his wives, maybe he has sex with him, one way of ending the story, where’s that egg?, oh good, now we can have a good marriage, psychologically, a woman needs to be locked up, his wife was not faithful to him, she is going to be faithful, good at rebuffing, so true, only to give birth to children from that man, Bluebeard’s test, the woman’s test, a mental investigation, some of those memes, man and woman are lying in bed, about the Roman Empire, women need to investigate the man’s head, the baby won’t be supported, the gap between the genders, not knowing what motivates the other, note that folktales, fairytales, warnings, be careful about who you’re marrying, stories written by Hans Christian Andersen, the Brothers Grimm stories are fairytales, orally transmitted, cautionary tales, art fairy tales, Charles Perrault, little mermaid, Copenhagen, put a nail in the coffin, being happy, perfectly grokked, propose this scenario, imagine this novel gender swapped, a lady who has a big castle, she needs a tutor for her son, she’s very standoffish, she’s not sure that her son is her son, that is Jesse’s point, there are things going on in this kind of fiction that allow us to see inside of people, gender flip public domain stories, King Of The Black Coast, My Cousin Rachel, you don’t have the kid in this one, is Jilly Flower the most important character in the book?, she leads things in directions, she’s not, neither is the daughter, step daughter, not a bio-daughter, she’s a bastard, she’s a cuckoo-kid, who is the most important character in the book, the narrator, she’s absolutely not passive, that quote doesn’t make any sense, active in every respect, at the height of the gothic romance boom, Tansy Rayner Roberts, woman and the house, who is the Mistress of the title, mistress has a second meaning, the title of the book can refer to the murderer, it does refer to the child as well, both children, half sisters, slept with everything that moved, a realistic book, really well put together, another part of the universe, why are gothic romances so appealing?, this is a real phenomena, you don’t write novels about men investigating women’s past, weird incel guys, as long as it hasn’t been for the last nine months its probably fine, in the 21st century, always virginal, the servants in this house, the mother of Gilly, walked into the sea, Beyond The Door is awesome, that night at the dinner table, her hand to her mouth, sharp nails, her bosom rising and falling, a cuckoo clock, just like my mother had when Pete was still alive, Carl got it for me wholesale, a funny little sound, what’s the matter with you you’ve got your clock haven’t you, the opening of the story, its in Fantastic Universe, only for her, won’t do it for Larry, smash you, breaks his neck, very near the end of the story, what?!, what is this?, nobody cares except for Jesse, there’s a hidden story inside of this story, like my mother had, when Pete was still alive, never hear Pete again, why is that in there?, if you’re paying attention, there’s a nosy neighbour across the street, suss out whether she was cheating, the neighbour’s last name is Peters, we heard from the nosy neighbour, Larry Thomas, why is Pete the presumed half brother, Doris, it’s all about cuckolding, the wife is cheating on him, he comes home unexpectedly, they were having sex, informing on this household, her husband cheated with Doris’ mom, he murdered him, the same kind of psychology, women are biologically different than men, men just have to hope that women are faithful, that difference makes for a vast exploration of genres of story, pretty much all of them, if we had access to alpha centurian literature, Alien Nation, George Fransisco, retarded guy at work, prefertilizes women, the fertilization ceremony, everybody celebrates, not something that normally happens in our culture, made possible by his contribution, that’s what makes science fiction amazing, that’s what its really about, not just an alien with a ray gun, isn’t that cool?, Nancy Drews, Hardy Boys, she is an amateur detective, something’s gone missing, she has a girlfriend, she’s not dating, teen mysteries, next week, some kind of early advent coffee, 4.5 hours, aimed at kids, this was very solid, one of the best books, let’s talk about Rebecca, it’s public domain status, there’s several movies, the Hitchcock one, fairly recent version, Charles Dance, Diana Rigg, Game Of Thrones, she was the old woman giving really good advice, a British actor, Sean Bean, Sharpe’s Rifles is the one where he doesn’t get killed, Goldeneye (1995), he’s a white ruissian mad at the British, a great backstory, very few good Bond movies after the fall of the Berlin Wall, not really about the Cold War, it wasn’t the Russians, he slept with them, they gave him an Order of Lenin, License To Kill, James Bond does Miami Vice, the Bond movies died with Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, products of the 60s and 70s, the modern ones with Daniel Craig, Newcastle Birmingham accent, part of the promotion of the film requires that you pretend, Sean Connery, the best James Bond movie is the Cannonball Run (1981), plastic surgery, a Jew who wants to be James Bond, they’re all fairly good, George Lazenby, it has Diana Rigg, a very good movie, the guy who plays Jaws [Richard Kiel] is in Cannonball Run (1981) too, some cookies, we have bad food in North America, truck stop bakery, a well lit bakery, American style diner, discovered the cookies, cookies in the background, see you next week.

Posted by Jesse Willis