Episode 36  The Imprint - We Are Creating  Each Other Side note: At the end of this show, Matt grapples with something he caught himself saying about friendship that really bothered him. So we will have to explore a second half of this topic by bringing an expert on, for another show to remedy things. Pearl of wisdom from Bruno’s in Santa Monica – an entity/ parental/protective figure that helps raise the children. This episode is about leadership. Matt explains the concept of servant/leader. We discuss true leadership and what that truly is. We discuss tantrums. In all aspects of life and culture, we are here to take care of each other. We are creating each other. Creativity - creative energies are brewing and are very strong.  I always think about collaboration and creativity; the way we influence each other in conversation, our experience with one another and how they create an imprint; I can be imprinted by your behavior. My behavior could be imprinted on you.  Your behavior towards me can create and impression of you that will be forever imprinted.  It happens in relationships, in business, with leadership, with friendship; all of the ships.       #leader #ittakesavillage #parenthood #friendship #leadership, #business #tantrums #servant #servantleader #despit  #compassion #undercoverboss #tedlasso #ellewoods #legallyblonde #aikido   Transcript [00:00:00] Fawn: [00:00:00] Good morning. Hello? Oh, Matt: [00:00:05] you're gonna have to cut out that first one second. I said evening Fawn: [00:00:08] and now I'm not cutting anything. Oh, dear. How are you guys? Welcome to our friendly world. This is fun. How are you doing? What do you love to, Matt: [00:00:19] what'd you doing? Oh man. I'm feeling energized today. You're in trouble. Fawn: [00:00:23] I, I was, I know, you know what? I, I woke up feeling like I was in trouble. My mind is really preoccupied. I feel not so light in the head, like too many thoughts, too many. Responsibilities too many wants and desires and too many frustrations in my head right now. Matt: [00:00:44] I've been there, but feeling like laser-focused, I'm Fawn: [00:00:48] glad. Okay. I will start with a Pearl of wisdom, Pearl of wisdom, because I usually start by saying it's a nugget of wisdom from Santa Monica. This one is a [00:01:00] Pearl because it has to do with. Transcending time and being a parent, being a grandparent or not that you're a grandparent or parent per se, but  it's the feeling, it's the responsibility aspect of it. It's the aspect of taking care of someone regardless of your age and taking care of them as far as emotional goes. , if you guys have listened to the very, very first it's called the mentor, the mentor is me talking about my mentor and that's the city of Santa Monica. When I was a kid, Santa Monica was always around. I had no idea I was being influenced by this entity. And by the time I was 16, 17. Most of my friends were out of high school. They were in their twenties, they were working professionals. I worked with them and the people that I worked with had other friends. So we all became friends and I was the youngest one in the group. Gotcha. [00:02:00] And one friend was, this was before gay marriage, but they were kind of married. They were together,  to two men in their twenties. , beautiful people and so loving to me. And they really took me under their wing. And because I was having so many problems with my family and there were, there was so much, I was, there was so much I was working on, I was working on my portfolio trying to figure out how to make it as a professional photographer, even back then, as a kid. And they helped me out when they were gorgeous. They were my models because I did these elaborate fashion shoots back then. And, , Michael was,  the higher level tier of this, I don't know if it was a chain back then, a pretty well known hair salon. So he was this really talented hairdresser. And it's really interesting because I always had that , in my field. I always had martial [00:03:00] artists around me and. People that were involved in makeup and hair, you know, because I mean, years later I ended up working for the Aveda corporation. Right. And I was surrounded by that. It was like the professionals in the industry that worked in hair and makeup. So anyway, when I would visit my friends, they lived right on the boardwalk. The Pearl of wisdom comes from a place, a restaurant, an Italian restaurant, and Matt you'll remember, but this restaurant was part of the influence for me when I was a kid, like it was always around and it was Bruno. Remember Bruno's restaurant. Matt: [00:03:41] I was about to ask if it was brewed house, but yeah, of course it must be right there at the base of the, literally the boardwalk, Fawn: [00:03:47] rather. Exactly. It was right on the corner. And the food was lovely, but what was really amazing and comforting was the owner. It was always him, [00:04:00] always working, always cooking. You walk in there. He is, he's waving at you. He's always smiling at you, but he was like a caretaker. He was like a guardian angel for that area. And it, and I just felt like. W, especially at that age, I needed comfort. So my friends gave me comfort, but also Bruno's gave me comfort. Like he was always there and there was just the whole nourishing part of life. That was Bruno's. It was always there. He was always there. Right. So years later, I mean, many years later he was still there. And I remember hanging out with him. And I was hanging out now with now we're, you know, much older. I am anyway, and I'm hanging out with a friend, who's a dad and he has a teenager. And this teenager of his is out of control. Right. And we were always talking about this. I'm [00:05:00] like, why is it the parents look so old? And I remember we were watching opera together. One day we were just sitting in his apartment and we were looking at, this was a long time ago, but we were looking at, uh, a panel and I don't remember what the discussion was about, but they were, they were parents and they were talking about their children and they looked really old to me. So I looked over to my friend I'm like, because they said how old they were. Okay. And I was shocked that they were actually that young because they looked really old handled to my friend. I'm like, why do they look like that? He didn't even skip a beat. He goes their parents. Matt: [00:05:44] Oh my Fawn: [00:05:44] goodness. What do you mean? He goes, it it's stressful. Fun. Like, what are you talking about? And so, anyway, that's when he started talking about.  What he's going through with his son, with his teenage son, like this guy is out of control. , he [00:06:00] doesn't talk he's into bad things, but I don't know exactly what is happening. There's no communication. It's like the tantrums are on another level. When they're at that age tantrums, Matt: [00:06:13] I was about to say, and you would call them tantrums. Fawn: [00:06:15] I now would call them tantrums because I've seen. Tantrums take place, not only with toddlers, but heads of CEOs. I've seen tantrums in politics. I've seen tantrums just in regular business. It is ridiculous. If I can step away from it, it is quite comical, but it's not really Matt: [00:06:36] well when you're emotionally connected. It's really hard to step away. Fawn: [00:06:39] So. Okay. Well, I mean, not just being emotionally connected, but  obviously you have to do business with someone, even if you try to remain unemotional about it and like level headed, it is crazy. Like, are you serious right now? That type of thing. Anyway. So back to Bruno's  , so I was sitting with my friend [00:07:00] who has the son that's out of control. And we're just sitting there trying to calm down and like, just trying to have a nice afternoon. Right. You know, how we would go to Bruno's and we would just sit there and just eat an early dinner before we headed out and did other things. Right. So we're sitting there. And Bruna comes from behind the counter. Like he's he was always there spinning and twirling the pizzas or whatever. And he was always busy, but he came, he came to our table and he's talking to my friend. He's like, Hey, give him info on his son that he didn't have. Oh, snap. And I was like, Oh my God. , this guy kind of like, I felt in a way watched out for me when I was a kid. And here he is, he still looks the same as the same youthful thing that he had. And now he's still looking, he's doing the same things and I'm looking out for this right? For my [00:08:00] friend. Who's the dad of this kid. I was just blown away, but that's a nugget of wisdom right there. That's a Pearl of wisdom, no matter your age,  that's the village, ,  we take care of each other in a way we are creating each other, you know, creativity, creative energies brewing, and very strong.  , I always think about collaboration and creativity, the way we influence each other in conversation, our experience with one another, they create an imprint. I can be imprinted by your behavior. My behavior could be imprinted on you, right? Your behavior towards me can create and impression of you that will be forever imprinted, , it happens in business with leadership, with friendship, all of the ships,  I'm thinking about one instance. If I'm going to talk about [00:09:00] business, I had this experience where this person that I admired suddenly had a tantrum. Matt: [00:09:07] Right? I mean, everybody can have a bad day though, right? Fawn: [00:09:09] It wasn't about a bad day. I could see it brewing. I was watching this person for a while because one, I admired them and two, because I felt like I was proud of them and I was wanting to just watch them to see how they navigate through life. Okay. Navigate through business and they're pretty well known, , they're, they're quite successful, but I was watching , and I was seeing little signs along the way that they could be wavering or they could be, , what's the word? Not necessarily being troubled, but like I could see a few hiccups happening. Right. And it wasn't a parents to people, but I was noticing  little tiny things in the ether here and there. If I can say that, [00:10:00] I was just noticing certain things. And so one day I had a question and it was the same question I had had for a long time. And it was always, , pushed aside like, Oh, we'll get to that later. So we're in business, like, right. It's a business relationship. And I have a legitimate question. I need to get something done. And it was constantly like, Oh, when you get to it, when you're ready, we'll discuss it then. Right. I kept saying, well, I'm ready. Can we discuss it now? Well, let's discuss it at this meeting. Well, that meeting comes up and there was no room for that conversation. So I said, once again, , I really need to figure this out  could we have a discussion or a call or something, but I, I use the word call as in, I didn't mean necessarily it has to be a call, but this person had a major tantrum. And I was so I wasn't surprised because I could feel it coming from months ago [00:11:00] and , I tried to not. Step in the way, because I don't know , what it is about me, but I S I, I tend to get the heat for things. If there's a whole group feeling this way, right. And it's targeted at maybe this leader, that's not doing their job. We feel like they're not doing their job. They're phoning it in. It's not things aren't being done. Right. And if I'm in that group, I get scolded. Because I asked what I think was an innocent question. Like, Hey, can you help me with this? Right. And then all of a sudden I get , the lashing. Is that a word? You know, I get, I get the tongue lashing and I get the whip,  , and everybody else can be like, Oh wow. That sucks. And meanwhile, I'm here shaking. Like what the Matt: [00:11:47] hell? You're very empathetic. So yeah, no, I totally get it. And you're getting now into leadership and how leaders process things. And so often I [00:12:00] think we go out into the world as babes in the woods and we don't know anything. You know, I have a four-year degree in computer programming. Big whoop. I learned some very cool stuff, absolutely things that I still use every day, but from a technological viewpoint. Oh my God. There's, you know, you could fill many encyclopedias with the amount of technological stuff I don't know anything about. And the trick is, is that a lot leader, depending on the style and the type of leader you're trying to be. I think people are very much locked into this whole, leave it to Beaver ward, Cleaver who always had a good answer. And , sometimes as a leader, you don't have a good answer and you need to be able to clearly communicate. I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that. And that's hard for people because when you're seen as a leader, people like to view themselves. People think that they're seen up on a pedestal and we've, we've talked about, [00:13:00] , mentors and things that ultimately, you know, I've never had somebody that I could emulate a hundred percent and that's just what it is. People  ended up being shite on one level or another, and it's really hard to be that hundred percent emulator kind of a person. And, , I'm willing to bet if you go digging for enough dirt, you're going to find it on everyone. Everybody screws up. And it's not about, it's not about how, how you screw up. It's about what you do when you do screw up. Do you double down and,  attack the other person or do you really listen to their criticism or understand what they're saying and say, you know what? I don't have an answer for you right now. I'm going to find one for you. Fawn: [00:13:44] Okay. Which you sent it because I was going to talk about. How we, how we always talk about mentors, . And how you and I grew up looking for the mentor and we never found it. So we had to, we had to pretty much do things on our own because the [00:14:00] parents suddenly didn't have any answers for, I think probably for the age that we were in, like the ages in society, like had changed so much, there's so much information. Everything is constantly new, but then yeah. You made the devils point of, well, it's always been new for the past century and a half. Like everything's changed. It seems that way for sure. But then we had mentors way, way, way, way back during, when the change started to happen. You know, I just felt like back then years ago, like a hundred years ago, there was, even though we, the change had started, like we had so many advances. With technology and we had the car, the phone, the backs, the cell phone, the internet. But no I'm saying how it started. Like we had suddenly there was a car, right? No more horse carriages needed. , suddenly we had washing machines in the house or a telephone in the house. Then we had all of a sudden, a [00:15:00] cell phone you can walk around with. Right. Then we have the internet, you know, all of that, like in a short amount of time, within the last a hundred, hundred 50 years, would you say it would take Matt: [00:15:11] a hundred years? Just keep it a hundred Fawn: [00:15:14] years, but yeah, but like I'm saying. It feels like a hundred years ago, we still have the journeyman and the, you know, the apprentice, the Matt: [00:15:22] dream things were pretty much straight line and odds are, you knew. It actually may be more about 150 years ago, because if you really think about it years ago, a hundred years ago, we were just coming out of world Fawn: [00:15:36] war one. But so do you see what I'm, what I'm getting at back then? There was that respect of like, okay, this person knows their stuff and they did. Right. , they may have had tantrums and other places, but as far as their work. They were seen as , the leader. Like you took care of business, right? Like, think about even the soldiers that went [00:16:00] into world war two and think about the population around the world, what they all sacrificed for. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying I'm advocating war. I'm not, but I, what I am intrigued by is how everyone pulled together for one common cause. And I'm saying there is no more one common cause, and there's no more one. Common kind of like a mentor in any particular field. I feel like. And if there are people out there like that, please let me know guys, our friends that are listening please, because I've been searching for forever and I have not found it. And so what I'm saying is it's not you. I was going to also bring up the mentor thing that you just talked about. And also it's also the capacity thing that we always talk about also. People don't have the capacity to lead. Like what is going on? Why is it that  , our leaders can't handle the job? Like you really, you have [00:17:00] one job to do and you're there to support. Well, do your people, do you have one job? If you're in public service, if you're a politician, you're a public servant, right. Okay, go ahead. You're there to serve, but I feel like. It's just, everybody is in, , the mode of survival. So it's take care of your own, that's it? Matt: [00:17:21] You know, where things get truly interesting. Doesn't it let's talk about politicians, Fawn: [00:17:26] but before that, I just wanted to bring up the whole tantrum thing again. That's what I don't understand. , I'm noticing. So for example, with this person that I worked with habit Dan drum, right? I mean, For net for forever. Now she is imprinted herself as a toddler to me, and the respect is gone. Matt: [00:17:51] Right. And that's a big one Fawn: [00:17:54] because I, all of a sudden I had to put aside what I had to do. [00:18:00] , it wasn't a job. I'm learning something. Correct. So we're in a learning situation and there was no learning happening. It was just phoning it in is, was awesome. Our perspective as the students, right. So it's still a business transaction. Right, right. You're paying a teacher they're supposed to help you. Right. Um, what was I saying? I totally forgot. Tantrum toddler. Well, yeah, forever. They've, they've lost my respect and there you have it and that's it. And really it had to do with communication, but I could tell, I, I had to stop. I had to completely stop that relationship.  It's not that I stopped talking to them, but I had to stop looking at them as teachers. I had to start looking at them as wounded screaming, toddlers, that need help. Right. [00:19:00] So I was no longer concerned about my questions being answered or what I needed to be done. To be taken care of, but now I'm like, wow, I can see her in pain. I can see that. You're frustrated. I can see that. So I'm going to try to erase that frustration for you. Don't worry about me. I'll figure it out. Matt: [00:19:21] Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, no, no, no. You're what, what you're doing in essence is you're being a compassionate parent to this person. Fawn: [00:19:29] Forever. They are now imprinted as someone that is a screaming. Toddler. Matt: [00:19:35] Right. And unfortunately, or fortunately, or unfortunately, and mostly, unfortunately I think you're going to take a look at this person. Who's supposed to be teaching you things as I'm going to take whatever you're offering and run it through my filters and try and understand it. But if I come back to you with a question that's off topic or a question that's going to be challenging, I'm going to [00:20:00] expect perhaps for you to respond the same way, which really kind of hinders that learning process. Fawn: [00:20:04] And by the way, the question I was asking was totally in sync with what we were supposed to learn. Matt: [00:20:11] Well, and that that's the fun part is you absolutely believe that. And obviously this person feels differently about it somehow. So, yeah. Fawn: [00:20:19] And you know, that's where the communication comes in because they could have said. I can't answer that, but they didn't say that. They said, well, I answered that when you get to it, when you're ready. Right. Anyway, I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of it. But what I want to say is it's just interesting. This is all within the realm of what I was saying, that we are creating each other, every relationship, every interaction that we have, right. We are creating something. With each other, we are creating each other. And what is it that we're creating?  Do they know that they're creating that from our perspective that [00:21:00] they're now children and no longer authorities or leaders, they're no longer a leader? Well, it's because you're not able to be like, I, I always say. And it's going back to the other thing we talk about, which is be a good host in the world. The world is your home. And even the strangers that you come in contact with on the street, you were just walking by that person, is your guest, make them comfortable in your home. Right. And if everyone did that, it would be a different kind of thing. Very Matt: [00:21:31] much so. No, no, no. And again, absolutely. Right. I mean, on some level now this. Instructor becomes like a YouTube video that, , you watch and you're like, Hmm, that's interesting. Thank you. And maybe it helps you and maybe it doesn't, but at the end of the day, you've lost a certain essence. So, yeah. So I wanna like, I want to gently steer us now. Um, yeah. I want to talk about,  something that I've come into contact with, which has been, I was in an interview and [00:22:00] somebody threw these two words at me and I was like, what the heck is this? And the tours were. Servant leader. Ooh, what does that mean? And this is where w we, it's almost like we have to walk through, we're walking through a swamp now because it's a tricky, it's a tricky, tricky thing, because once you start adopting a certain leadership philosophy or whatever, I mean, you really, on some level, it needs to imprint on your soul.  You really have to believe it. Like everybody wants to say, Ooh, I'm a transformative leader. Well, what does that mean? What does that not mean? What does it mean to be a servant leader? What does it not mean to be a servant leader and unfortunately, or fortunately the servant leader, a lot of people have glommed onto it and a lot of people have tacked on literary figures, historical figures to it. And, , at the end of the day, I think , it is [00:23:00] what you choose to make it. So saying the original servant leader was Jesus Christ. Well, okay, fine. But if I'm Jewish, if I'm Muslim, if I'm Hindu, does that divorce me from it? Does that make me feel weird about it? The fact that people have said that, um, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Espouse this philosophy, the fact that people have said, Oh, my favorite author, Herman, Hesse, or sod, depending on who you want to talk about it, the guy who wrote Siddhartha, the guy who wrote a Magister loony, he alluded to the whole concept of, of a servant leader in one of his books, the journey to the East, which he wrote right after Siddhartha. But that's beside the point. And basically the philosophy comes from the fact that, , as you ascend the quote unquote hierarchy inside of a business or a, you know, institution of some kind that you become more and more responsible to the people under [00:24:00] you. It's not about gratifying your ego. It's not even about serving your clients, which wow. That sounds more than a little counter. It's about serving the people who report to you and putting those people ahead. People first very important concept and also to collaborate with them compassionately. So people come to a leader, quote, unquote leader, and you can be a leader, even if you're a quote unquote team member leadership has nothing whatsoever to do with your official look at a senior manager in charge of TPS reports. No, a leader is just somebody that people know are going to help them. It's a pretty simple thought. Help them. So it's about when somebody comes to me with a problem, not making them feel stupid because the [00:25:00] instant, I make them feel stupid. They're gone and they should be, I have no interest in talking to somebody who's going to be like, you don't know that, Oh my God. Or having a tantrum on me,  basically, you've lost your leadership as far as I'm concerned, which is kind of a scary world because if you're a teacher, but not a leader because. Theoretically a teacher should be leading a discussion should be leading people towards knowledge, as soon as you lose that, it's really, you can't get it back. First of all, I don't feel. And secondly, , people are going to try and go around. You circumvent you and you're in a very unhealthy kind of situation. Fawn: [00:25:39] Okay. So I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Oh dear. I. I'm thinking about it. And I think you can get it back, but if you keep on with that same tantrum, if you keep on with your rigid view, if you're not flexible, no, there's no way you're going to get that leadership back. Never. And Matt: [00:25:59] the reason why I said, [00:26:00] yeah, never get it back is because that's the rule, not the exception. That is the rule and everybody feels, they are the exception. Yes, you can certainly get it back, but. You gotta do something. You gotta dig deep. That's Fawn: [00:26:14] what I was going to say. That's what I was gonna say. You can't stay in that same spot in, in no matter what you've done, staying with the conviction that you are in the right. As soon as this person that I'm talking about came back with a lashing. I immediately, you know, this is how I've always been because I grew up with a messed up family. I was always trying to figure out their point of view, like, why are they doing this right? Why are they saying this? What have I done?  That's the first place I'll always go to. Right. so I went there again, I'm like, wow. So I understood her perspective completely. But in the end, it was still not okay. Like that was not warranted. That, that lashing that she sent my way,  it was [00:27:00] way out of line. But what I'm saying is it happens everyone's human to be leader. You have to be human, but so one of our favorite shows is Ted lasso.  Remember when Ted. All of a sudden unleashed the fury, the fury, and happy on poor Nate, Nate, the great, like, so here's a Ted lasso character. Who's  the most positive person.  He's a, he's a great coach. He's a great leader. Matt: [00:27:29] Fish out of water. He's in England, he's coaching quote, unquote soccer or proper football. And he was a football coach, like foot, foot Gridiron football coach in Kansas. And he's now in England figuring Fawn: [00:27:41] stuff out, but what a wonderful leader he is, and he never loses his cool except when he does, but he did. Right. And you can say, okay, that's it, man. If I was that Nate character at being like F you Ted lasso. [00:28:00] But first of all, that other character was very special and like angelic. So yeah, exactly. So he wouldn't have, he didn't let that get to him. He understood, wow. Ted's going through something. Right. So he was very understanding. Right, right. He stepped back. But what did Ted do the next day? He came back and he apologized, , he admitted that he was not in the right place. Right. And that perhaps he not perhaps, but he didn't, he didn't use what, what's the word for it? He didn't have the right way to, he didn't double Matt: [00:28:33] down on his Fawn: [00:28:34] Idiocracy. Right, right. He was flexible. He realized. He hurt somebody with his words, with his, not even his words, but his fury just like his face was like a different person. He just roared total animosity at poor this other guy. But you see, he turned it around. Right. And because he was human, [00:29:00] the other person was able to see he's human. That's okay. And he's still the leader. He's still someone I respect, especially because he just admitted to a wrong, Matt: [00:29:13] yes. But again, I feel that's more the exception that proves the rule. I think that typically leaders like to double down because unfortunately, or fortunately, or unfortunately the last, not the last, but one of the principles of servant leadership is that you are the moral authority. So, you know, what's right. Wow. That seems a little too arrogant for me. That's yeah, yeah. That's too much. Fawn: [00:29:36] Yeah, no, no, that, that needs, that's an outdated definition of what a leader should be, because we all have the moral authority. We all have something amazing to offer, Matt: [00:29:48] but by the same token, there have been moments in my career where I have talked to somebody who. Set me properly on the morals of the company or the organization I was [00:30:00] working for, because I remember I was working on a system and I was like, yeah, but if I have access to the system, then I can do bad things. And, wow. So I was talking to my bosses boss, cause it seems like I always tend to talk to my bosses boss, but anyways, smacked me basically psychically and said we don't hire people like that here. And on some level you can say, wow, dude, naive by the same token. I mean, he's, he's basically saying I'm we, , when you work here, you understand that you have this level of trust that you should not abuse. And if we hire somebody who does abuse that trust they're done and, , We're   going to do what we can to ensure that we don't hire people like that. So I'm not going to immediately say you can't do this, or it has to pass through some kind of official, no, because this was an emergency system. And so things needed to go quickly as opposed to, but Fawn: [00:30:55] that's beside the, but this is what I'm talking about. When I say you have to [00:31:00] be a parental figure because a parent needs to be stern. If you tell your child, Hey, don't touch that stove. It will burn you. You have to be very firm about that, make sure that they are aware of that. There's no wavering here, but if I, as a parent have a bad day and I unleash horrible fury where it's not warranted at all, even if it is warranted, he shouldn't do that. We should find another way to communicate, but I am human. So I immediately have to re. Redirect myself and come back and say, what I did was wrong. Please forgive me. Right. Okay. And that's what I'm saying. Okay. There's a difference between teaching, like this is the proper way do not touch the stove, do not steal, do not, do not do bad things with the code as, and then having. Having a [00:32:00] tough time and coming back and throwing your coffee at somebody. Do you know what I mean? That's what I'm talking. I'm talking about being human and it works not in, not just in business, but throughout all relationships, friendships. This is what is key. You cannot be rigid. We have to realize everybody is an authority in some way, and we are here collaborating. That's why I was saying.  We're creating each other , it's a, it's a flow. Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, no. I Matt: [00:32:30] completely understand. Again, back to compassionate collaborators, that's what a servant leader is supposed to aspire to. So they're not, I'm the expert on a hundred percent of things, but I am, I may be understand what the end goal is, and I need to make sure that I communicate that cause again, communication. So always, always going to be probably biggest indicator of success for any host leader. And you can sometimes use these [00:33:00] terms interchangeably,  it's about the flexibility and the understanding and the, and the compassion when you're going through even your communications, but certainly when you're actually,  collaborating with Fawn: [00:33:09] someone. And I think when compassion is left out, you no longer have leadership, you have a despit, correct? Yes. I mean, think about, um, if there's a disaster and a state and a leader suddenly decides to take time off, to get, to get away from things that would never happen. There is no compassion. Like I would not, that's not a leader to me. I need someone to understand the situation of the people, right. So if you're an army leader, who's never, you know, I've never been in the army. So I don't know, but I can only imagine you have to be a really good leader. You know what it's like to be out in the trenches. Right. How can you [00:34:00] possibly lead properly if you don't know what that feels like, if you don't know all the elements that are involved in that, or what's another example besides war, but like, remember a long time ago, there was a show undercover boss Matt: [00:34:15] and they might still be Fawn: [00:34:15] on actually, they were talking about this. There was this one show. Uh, the boss was, , the head of sanitation or something and. He wasn't he or she went undercover and they were driving the truck to pick up trash. And the person, the boss couldn't figure out why all of a sudden, , one of the people would disappear every now and then and hide behind the truck or do something. And so they, the boss, like who was in Cognito asked, and it turned out that this person had to pee inside of a water bottle. So never did the leader of the company realize, wow, this [00:35:00] person performing this job all day does not have a bathroom to go to, right. Something so necessary and basic for human survival. Right. Is that a good leader? I mean, obviously he put himself in that he or she put himself in that situation to understand things that he may not know about, or she may not know about, but really, or yeah. I mean, there are so many examples of this when you're absolutely right. , it feels like when you are not the leader, you tend to have more compassion and more sensitivity because you're exposed to so much information.  , so many of the necessities that are needing to be in place, those, those are what make great leaders coming from that. And having that empathy, that compassion for people and their survival. Matt: [00:35:53] Right? No, no, no, no, no argument whatsoever. And to take us back to Ted lasso for a second, what's like [00:36:00] literally like the second thing he did, he suggestion box. He fixed the water pressure. No, he put down the suggestion box. Right. Right. And even though he got tons of abuse because obviously he's Yankee doodle and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately speaking, he went through, he ignored all the insults and he, he, he passed that one off and he said, there's something we need to feel. Fawn: [00:36:22] Yeah. 99% was insults. Matt: [00:36:25] Right. And those just bounced off. And because that's what you, unfortunately you have to do because as a leader,  sometimes you're not well-liked, but he also said, okay, I don't know what you say by even implementing a suggestion box is there's a lot, I don't know. And I'm going to provide a forum for people to tell me. And at the internet has taught us anything it's anonymous, as you know, can be good. And, , he implemented that and  that showed again leadership and that showed that, , he wasn't afraid to admit that there were things he didn't know, Fawn: [00:36:59] you know, another [00:37:00] great key was he didn't take her personally. Obviously there was a lot of skew in that. Let's just use that as an example, on that football team, there was a lot that was wrong. There was a lot of weird abuses going on and there was a lot of, , inconsiderate things happening at all times. So for him to get a 99%, , insults in the suggestion box was just an example of. The air, , the sense of being that just existed within that culture.  For them to say, when going co-anchor, Rinker Winker careful, constantly. Right? Matt: [00:37:39] Right. I apologize to our British listeners. It's Fawn: [00:37:43] from the show. I know, but still, but for them to her all kinds of insults it, it's just indicative of the, kind of. Feeling of that culture that existed, but he didn't take a personally, right? He didn't, he just like moving on [00:38:00] and not just, well, I'm sorry, but I'm a great lover of TV and movies, but another great example is Elle woods from legally blonde. Here we go. I mean, talk about all kinds of insults being thrown at her, but like looking at that, the brilliance of this movie and the character was he could see her kind of like. Like as if someone's bringing a tiny little cute little belt, she would sh shrug it off and continue Matt: [00:38:27] on. Well, again, I think that they both embody what I consider the pop-up principle, which is I am who I am. , I think that they both have that strength of character in that they know who they are.  If you know that you are strong and you know that you are fit and you know that you were beautiful, if somebody calls you ugly, you're like, wow, I guess you're having a bad day, dude. You know what I mean? I mean, it's, it makes it easier once you come to grips with exactly who you are Fawn: [00:38:55] and knowing that when people are hurling, insults and [00:39:00] tantrums, It's really all about them and their pain, right. Has nothing to do with you. But for some reason you may be a good target for them. Well, because maybe because you do have that leadership within yourself that, that compassion, that empathy. you may feel like a mother to them so they could have their toddler tantrum, Matt: [00:39:21] right? Well, yes, but sometimes you instigate that tantrum. I'm remembering an incident. Are you saying you, as in me, I'm saying that I'm saying you as in me, actually I can remember an incident where. We were going through, we were reviewing code blah, blah, blah. That means I'm looking very deeply at what's going on and I'm asking questions and I'm trying to get to the root of something. And another developer was presenting and he was a father and he was older than me and dah, dah, dah, dah, right. Theoretically more mature. And he just, at one point I was like, so is this what's happening? And he got. And he had a tantrum right in front of me. And because of what I said, because [00:40:00] I think what he wanted to hear was brilliant code. You're a good guy. That's like your Fawn: [00:40:05] fault. That was not your, again. That was not you instigating. I know you were not the instigator pulled it out of him. No, you didn't. Matt: [00:40:14] Babe. If nobody would've said Fawn: [00:40:15] anything, you wouldn't have had, someone would have said something or a pin might've dropped and he would have lost his brick and that as possible, you cannot blame that on me. You sound blaming Matt: [00:40:25] myself for it. But I am saying that I do instigate something. Yeah. Fawn: [00:40:28] That's what I'm saying. That was not you instigating, unless you said, yo, you suck and you did not say that. No. What people have to understand is no that you were not instigating this. It would have happened either way. All right. If it wasn't you, it could have been his wife or his partner, whatever it could have been his dog, it could have been some person on the road driving, you know, it will have gotten unleashed in some other ways [00:41:00] what I'm saying, and that brings us back to capacity. When someone is full, they have no longer the ability to hold something which means understand something to have empathy. There is no room for empathy that that will result in a tantrum or disease. Like they have a heart attack because it's just building up. Do you understand? Yes, you are not the instigator. Matt: [00:41:28] It's not like I'm holding on to this. Fawn: [00:41:29] I'm just saying, I'm just talking for our friends out there too. And for myself, Matt: [00:41:34] you know, hammering home in a woman. No, Fawn: [00:41:36] because I mean, that's totally, no, we cannot assume the responsibility for someone's tantrums. If someone is having a tantrum because they're in pain, it has nothing to do with you. And I want people to understand that in a way I'm also repeating it for myself to remember that. Matt: [00:41:56] Right. Well, no, it's, it's certainly, you know, [00:42:00] people have just a plethora of options to respond to whatever it is I say to them. And sometimes, , once in a blue moon, somebody reacts in the worst possible Fawn: [00:42:09] way. Remember what, okay. All great martial artists say this, but also since they chicken legs would say it. That. Hey, he was, he was decent come. I just said, I just said, Mark, great martial artists say this, including some chicken colluding. I thought you said. And Oh, maybe I did. I don't know. Okay. So he was still great. All right. But since I chicken legs would always say that the best moves are the easiest moves, right? When you're lazy, I'm lazy. So when you're tired, when your muscles are exhausted, you just. You do things better in a way you're more flexible. You're more able to, you're more apt to go with the flow. Correct? That is tough. How else would you describe  all right. So I'm thinking of really old people [00:43:00] and they tend to have more patients. Why is that? Maybe because they're fricking tired. Do you know what I mean? And they can surpass all that BS and say, this is some ridiculousness. I'm not going to participate, but this is what's up. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, no, no, no, I get it. Yeah. So to come to that state of laziness about it, that laziness, like, I don't care about you. I'm not going to do anything laziness as in martial arts aspect of laziness and that you're not going to engage with. Coming back with the same force or if not a bigger forest combat, right. It's not about combat, it's about a flow. And it's about that. Engaging in that. I really want to say the bad word, but not engaging in the messed up stuff. Right. It's about. What's the common thing in Ikea. We did, when someone's attacking you, we let them go on their [00:44:00] way. If they really want to go this way, please help them, allow them to keep going that way. And sometimes even faster. Can you explain that? I'm not saying it right. Matt: [00:44:09] Uh quote-unquote and I Quito teaches us all attacks a or circles and B. They always have a direction, usually it's at your face, but whatever. So if somebody is moving towards your, if somebody is moving with a fist towards your chin, The worst thing you can do is stop that motion from happening. You certainly aren't going to let him hit you on the chin, but on some level, by the time they realized that their emotion was at your chin, which in point of fact, motion being circular, it's probably still, it's probably going, you can extend it up or you can extend it down probably up in that case. By the time they realize that they haven't connected with your chin, their hand is maybe behind their back and they're on the ground. Right, because you haven't said I'm stopping you from doing anything. What you've said is I'm going to let you do this to the [00:45:00] absurd extreme, which is going to end up with you on your Fawn: [00:45:03] butt. And without you being in the way is the obstacle. Right? Matt: [00:45:07] Right. I am not going to hinder that motion. I'm going to extend that motion. Fawn: [00:45:13] So another example would be someone is coming at you with. A fist up punch. You're not going to take your fist and meet their punch with a punch. It will result in an explosion. And both of you getting hurt. Definitely. One of you getting hurt. So what you're going to do is you're  stepping to the side a little bit and meeting that punch and letting that person keep going in that direction. But you're not opposing them. You're on their side. You're by them, your shoulder. So shoulder with them. Matt: [00:45:48] And that's that's that absolutely is one way of doing it for Fawn: [00:45:51] sure. So you're guiding them, right? They're not going to destroy you with their blow by you're going, you're now the guide for [00:46:00] them. And that's what I'm saying about leadership, It's all about you being the guide.  If someone is throwing a tantrum at you. To be a really good leader. You have to be a good mother and a good father and put your stuff aside. Not take anything personally, because this tantrum is happening. Just think about it. If there's a dirty diaper and they're screaming happening, are you going to take that personally? Like I instigated that poop to come. No, the person has poop. And they need a Matt: [00:46:34] change, right? No, no, no, absolutely. Right. And,  taking it to that level when the person is perhaps acting that infant, that with so much infantile , there's no good word. I can't find it.  In those cases, yes. You have to be more than just a servant leader on some level, you have to be the parent. Right. And I would say you're absolutely right in saying a servant leader does [00:47:00] indeed have to bring people back to center, but a parent has to do it even more if you will. Fawn: [00:47:06] Yeah. You have to, you have to find a way to have the capacity enough to be caring enough, to not take it personally and help them. Right. Which now makes me think of this person I told you about. And I said, okay, I'm done with them. Do I care enough to allow for something to develop? Right. Or am I totally done? And I, now I don't want to say the word, but, um, you know, what do I say? Am I done with this person Matt: [00:47:38] completely. Right. And that, that can be a tough thing, particularly in the friendship arena when somebody says something. So, you know, everybody has, I always, like, I was like to describe the fact that it doesn't matter how long you've been at a job, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There are 10 words you can string together. God knows what they are. And maybe it's 20, maybe it's a [00:48:00] hundred, but it doesn't matter. There's a series of words you could string together that would get you fired. In the same way inside of a friendship, there are 10 or a hundred words that you can string together that will end that friendship. Right. You know, odds are, and, you know, uh, again, speaking about rules and not exceptions, cause I'm sure, but he'll be like, but my best friend who knows, maybe you've got something so utterly beyond special, but there are things you can say. , and it's about, , has that person said those 10 or a hundred words, or can you be big enough to ignore or move past that attack? And, , sometimes the answer has to be sadly, no, just to keep the integrity of yourself, if they so invalidate you that, , If they so invalidate, they strip you all the way down. Like I talk about how, , I consider my personality like an onion. If they cut all the way to the heart of the onion, can you [00:49:00] all the way in, can you let that go? And for me it's no, but that's me. I'm, you know, I'm, maybe I'm a fool. Maybe I'm an ass, but you know, on some level I have to keep that sense of self. Fawn: [00:49:14] And, you know, this is, this is our perspective and it's not the end all be all. Like, I really wish we had, whoever wrote Ted lasso that character. I want to talk to them because I feel you, how would a Ted lasso deal with Matt: [00:49:31] it? Right. Like cutting. So in, in, in, and, , they have the luxury of saying, well, yeah, but this is just a character and I can control who, what people say to him and, and what happens to him. And I can show him in the light. I want to show him in. Cause you know what, everybody has a terrible, and Fawn: [00:49:51] that's the brilliance of that character as they show him in the terrible day, terrible situations. Right. But he's still. [00:50:00] Is an exceptional human being he'll break down, but wow. He's still, I mean, I haven't seen the whole series yet, but you have, I really okay. Let's can we find whoever wrote that and talk to them because seriously, you and I, I think we have had enough Hertz where we're like, Hey, if you're going to reach this part of the onion, you're dead to me. But. With Ted lasso. Say that right. Matt: [00:50:28] Great question. Fawn: [00:50:29] This is just our perspective. I wonder what, what it is out there. Let us know guys, do you have anything else you want to say? Wow. Matt: [00:50:40] It feels like we've kind of covered. It feels like we, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm looking at my notes. It feels like we've kind of covered Fawn: [00:50:46] everything. It's just that whatever we end the show, you always say to me, Oh, you didn't tell, let me talk about this. I was going to wind it down and say, all right guys, you listening. I would love to, we would love to know your thoughts [00:51:00] because I mean, this is just our perspective. What's yours. If someone gets to the heart of the onion, Oh, are you done? Should you be done? Should you, would you, would you want to be Matt: [00:51:11] done? Can you look at yourself in the mirror? If you say you're not done and on and on and on, this is, wow. This is intense. And I, you know, for me, I am not Jesus, the Christ. I am not, you know, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. I'm not, you know, everybody has that moment. I think, but that's me. And am I projecting? It's kind of fun. Fawn: [00:51:38] All right. Well, let us know. Can we wind it up? We can wind it up. All right. Reach out to us, our friendly world.com and thank you to all our wonderful listeners. We're so grateful. We're really starting to pop around the world and I'm just in all of you. Thank you for listening to us. Please [00:52:00] send us notes and Matt: [00:52:02] rate our podcast. Yeah. Can you Fawn: [00:52:04] please, um, leave five stars? Can I say it? Am I allowed to say anywhere between no, no, please. Maximum number of stars. Can you please? No. Well, what we're really trying to do is start a movement where we create a compassionate world through friendship, and there are other things that we're working on right. As we speak. So. There are big things that we're working on and we want to work on it on a global sense too, to make this world more compassionate and to develop friendships. True, true friendships. So once again, you know, our website, our friendly world.com, please rate us kindly and, , leave us a review. Reach out to us because we need friends too.  Do you want to add anything by, by what? Well, we're [00:53:00] here. We never have an off, uh, we never go off. We are always having a show every week, a new show every week. That's our commitment. We will, if someday we ever get to have a vacation, we'll still record. We'll still have a show during the vacation, right, babe? Yes. As we love this, we love collecting. All right. We'll talk to you in a few days. Have a beautiful every day. Talk to you later. Be well bye-bye bye.