There's a roiling debate here in California over crime and what to do about it, with progressive prosecutors in the two of the state's most important cities under fire facing recall elections: San Francisco D.A. Chesa Boudin and Los Angeles D.A. (formerly of San Francisco) George Gascón. The public perception of soaring crime is not entirely supported by the statistics, and even where murders and shootings are up, is it fair to blame the district attorneys? How much does their approach to crime-fighting really affect what happens on the street?

For more, KCBS Radio political reporter and State of California host Doug Sovern spoke to John Pfaff, professor of law at Fordham University.