Today my long time outdoor compadre Kenji Haroutunian makes his 3rd appearance on the show. As longtime director of two top-fifty trade shows in the country (and many events and services beyond), Kenji’s experience has afforded him a truly independent viewpoint to best understand the ebbs and flows of business trends, successes, failures and the tools that can be applied these days to make a difference.

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Show Notes

04:27 The pivot from outdoor retail (A16) to trade shows. I don't quite remember how that happened.

I had been managing stores, a store manager for Adventure 16 in L. A. and then in the Valley store, and was back in the L. A. store managing there. And then got a call from Larry Harrison, who was. Put on task by the outdoor retailer team to go find their next account exec. There was a long-time account executive who was leaving, and they're looking to fill that spot. And I said, like, well, what's an account executive? It's not something that I was familiar with and sounded pretty fancy, but you know, long story short, I interviewed down in Laguna Beach with the team. And then, back then, it was called Miller Freeman, who was the owner of the outdoor retailer shows. And I got hired there as a salesperson having zero experience selling space or advertising, and starting in, in earnest, my career in the media slash shows business.

08:00 The Big Gear Show

Big Gear rose up out of what was the paddle sports retailer show. So that was a show launched by a couple of guys from the paddle sports industry who became sort of unhappy with the timing of outdoor retailer. Paddle sports was a big part of the outdoor retailer show, and they passed. They took their boat, went off, and started their own show. Out of that came the desire to be more inclusive categorically. So, instead of just paddle sports, why don't we bring in hike, running, camping, and biking and create a more comprehensive and inclusive platform? And so that's where the Big Gear Show came from. It launched in 2020.

14:29 Outdoor Biz Evolution

Those trade shows were all a bunch of guides, and, you know, we were young kids who worked at the retail shop floors and stuff. It was not as sophisticated then as it is now today.

You're right. That evolution is big. And I think, you know, the infusion of capital market representatives, you know, I, it was very different. You're right. You know, during my time, for example, at the show's helm was during the time when financial investors started showing up in numbers dozens and then like hundreds of people were coming, and we even created an event for them called what's that called, Fund Source? And it was specifically designed for new brands to pitch to investment community people and get valuable feedback and maybe even score an investor, you know, in the, in the sort of mode of Shark Tank. Right. But it was, I think Camber Outdoors is helping to sponsor it.

17:10 Do you have any thoughts on how that shakes out, consolidates, and continues to expand?

I shy away from the word trade show anymore because it's kind of a loaded term.

It kind of almost by default says the old. Way or the old show model that were the outdoor industry anyway, has become passé. And I think that whatever we're going to call the new show model you know, at big gear, we call it B2B2C or just simply like an inclusive platform that makes less of a deal of your categorical status.

You know, interestingly, you know, I, I have a, well, I don't have my badge on right now, but I came in the show and they had sort of parsed the show entry timing by what kind of badge you had. So it was like, you get an eight, if you have this badge, get an 11, if you have this badge

and you're not allowed in, if you don't have this badge.

So I think that determination of who occupies what is really difficult now because. You know, who is a retailer anymore? Who is a guide outfit or influence or media, et cetera. Um, even supplier brands have, have brand, like they have products with their brand name on it, you know, Gore, for example. So it's it's a fuzzier world when you make those determinations. So creating a more inclusive show experience is I think part of the, the future equation that'll make sense and will help to, you know, In concert with several other things that need to happen.

31:48 What, what do you think are a couple of the biggest, we talked about this before we hit the record button, about the state of the outdoor industry today. What do you think are a couple of the biggest challenges facing the outdoor industry today? 

I think there's a lot of challenges. I think losing our neighborhood shops, you know, in the cities, primarily, I think shops and touch points at the trailhead and near put in and at the destinations. That's still relatively strong across the country. What I see is that the urban shops are really getting crushed.

Like they are, their costs are going up. Their inventory and open to buy situations are super stressed and they're just finding it hard to keep going. It's also a time of changeover. Like a lot of the shops like a 16 that were founded, you know, in the 60s and 70s. Those. Company owners are either looking to sell or turn over the younger generation may or may not be interested in running retail stores.

And so they're finding this, this time of change over is very active. And that's true in other, you know, related sectors like fly fishing and surf and others, but I think that's part of the challenge right now. We're still working through the inventory glut that happened from the disruption of the of the pandemic.

So get 1st. Sold, people sold everything they had and then they had nothing to sell. And then the product was getting delayed because factories were closed and then the shipping lanes were delayed because they couldn't have enough dock workers to even unload the ships. And so that just created this big lag time in the industry that we're still working through like that created this over inventory situation that we're still in right now.

37:40 How has sustainability been reflected at the Big Gear Show? What are some of the initiatives you guys have?

Well, I think on the brands and the product side, you could definitely feel it. A lot of. A presence and interest in that re commerce story. For us as a show producer, you know, shows are horribly wasteful historically.

So trying to minimize the flow of that you know, because we have such a small team, I was managing a lot of that myself. What was happening over on the outside festival side, we really wanted to participate in, but we weren't able to do it this year. But they had a composting aspect too. So they really activated a zero waste program that did a pretty good job, but it's pretty expensive because you've got to have people. Staff that are there saying, Oh, wait, that's not a composting thing. You got to put that over here.

And this is, it's sort of pre sorting. So they had staff at each of these 10 stations or however many there were. And so that's expensive because you just got to pay people for all the time that they're there, but very very impressive commitment from outside and their partners on, on the festival side of things, we want to implement. And so we've been paying close attention to. Like the flow of trash, you know, trashable things coming in. We had a space that we dedicated just for cardboard that could be reused storing it so that it was kept dry and viable. And then, you know, the companies that needed them at the end of the show, we had it for them.

So just reusing and being smarter about You know, everything from badge holders, which we didn't have, you know, no badge holders just printed on enough, you know, quality paper that it's going to stay in place and have a, have a badge holder design that is effective. And we only had that for the B2B day.

You didn't need badges or anything to come in with, we had digital waivers, so again, you know, just not piles of paper that you have to keep for years, we used a digital service for that. So. You know, little by little getting smarter as a event producer and bringing those bringing those solutions to bear at the show.

38:37 What are a couple of the brands or products you think are leading the way in sustainability? 

I guess the small brand Stream2Sea they're called they're making a product that doesn't like it's a sunscreen product Skin care product I guess you'd say but even the packaging on it is thoughtfully designed so that it's biodegradable, you know over time not in your backpack, of course, but and they have a system for being able to return that, you know empty or recycle it So just you know little thoughtful things like that.

I think some of the different stove options, you know, I think one of the big stories coming out of the stove and cooking side is. Single use propane, you know, those green ubiquitous one pound propane bottles. And then we had a pellet stove coming from Timber Stoves.

There was quite a bit, actually, especially in one of the highlights of the show was the Founders Market, which was produced by Path Ahead Ventures, REI's program for lifting up. BIPOC and women-founded organizations. Cool. And a lot of those companies are really really carefully curated to bring like really thoughtful, more sustainable solutions to the market, as well as, you know, better solutions for groups that historically haven't been addressed, whether that's different body shapes or just, you know, disabled folks.

But that, you know, that's different than sustainability in a way. It is sustainability, but it's the same. Yeah. Way It's the same.

42:28 With all the talk lately of PFAS and things you know, we're discovering that are maybe worse off than we thought. How do you think, or do you think we can do more or maybe. Do some of it faster because it seems like maybe just, you know, guys like us, we're running out of time, but I think about my niece and nephew in the world, we're going to leave them and, you know, some of these things we've got to implement these programs like last week, and it seems like it takes a lot of energy and thought and conversation and things to get everybody's head around it to implement any thoughts on that.

Yeah, I'm pretty active in California with the California Direct Creation Partnership that I helped found back in twenty-eighteen in addressing these aspects because you know, the way that the legislation first came out was basically saying that at retail, there can't be p fast in any of the products you sell after January first twenty-five or whatever the date was, and this is like, hey.

Hold on a second. We, as the industry, believe in eliminating PFAS, just like we believe in eliminating BPA, just like we believe in using post-consumer recycled ingredients, and just like we believe in circular economy solutions. However, starting with the retail side starts with the horse's tail instead of the front.

Like you've got to start at the supply chain side. Get them to stop using it, and then you can regulate. If that's a word regulation-wise, you can, you know, move down the chain. So you start at the fiber manufacturer, then you go to the fabric manufacturer, then you go to the. Apparel manufacturer, then you go to the wholesaler, then you go to the retailer and then you go to the, you know, the consumer and give them a way to get rid of that stuff or to cycle it in a way that doesn't end up with just plastic in the ocean or in the landfill.

So I think more plastic in the ocean or the landfill. This is the reason why business. And government partnerships, you know, are the really so important to how we move forward, whether it is keeping PFAS out of our bodies and out of our ecosystems or doing a better job of working with tribes and taking that native knowledge and that stewardship mindedness.

Of, you know, thousands of years of indigenous presence and and honoring that all of these things mean disrupting the current flow. And that's hard. You know, if a river is flowing super fast, it's pretty hard to get it to move in a different direction. And that's what we're trying to do. We're changing the culture.

We're changing the entire culture of an industry, like changing our own personal culture. It's hard enough doing it for your family or your community is. Super hard and takes longer doing it for an entire industry that has all these moving parts across the country and across the globe like that's, that's going to take years.

So I think part of this is just learning to keep I had a coach when I paddled out rigor and he had this phrase, you know, we would use because outrigger races are sometimes. Really long like 20 miles 30 miles. Yeah, and it's just smooth power, like keep the pressure on keep applying the pressure. Don't burn yourself out because you've got an hour and a half more to keep paddling.

Don't run out. Don't burn yourself out, but smooth power, you know, and you'll keep keep the rhythm. Keep the power going. That's what we need. We need rhythm and we need, we need gentle applied power. That's. Consistent. Kind of like you and your podcast.

47:02 Where do you see the Big Gear Show in the next three to five years, say? What's that evolution look like?

I think we have to keep adapting and building this new model. And I think that the future of it is going to be more more events. Kind of surrounding the main event. So I guess I think of it as like a constellation of stars or something like we've created the critical mass in the center, and now we're just, you know, you, you mentioned ATT elevate.

Like I know Shannon's thinking about maybe that belongs in orbit with. The outside festival and the CEO summit idea. And I participated in an Asian outdoor leaders group meeting. They know little things that start to build around the core. People bring their sales meetings to town. That's always happened back at the old show, right?

Those are the things that create. The critical mass and get people to say, you know what, I really need to be there. And the more you do that across more sectors, across more job functions and you know, the workforce part of the industry, the more that'll bring the industry to bear. And create that critical mass.

So I think that's the future is continuing to work partnerships. I think partnerships are what fuel that that type of you know, critical mass building.

52:52 What is your favorite piece of outdoor gear under a hundred dollars?

I think last time I, I said headlamps and I still think headlamps are amazing.

56:58 Is there a memorable outdoor adventure or experience that has influenced your work side of the world?

Yeah, absolutely. One of my bigger adventures was skiing the high route across the Sierra from Independence to Fresno, basically.

Yeah. And I, in that experience because I was with Jeff Cooper, Dan Dalbera, and Suniva Sorby, it was great; it was pretty well documented. So I have images from that, and I can tell the story. It's a story that's relevant to people who want to ski the high route, but it's also relevant to a number of different objectives or just, um, inspiration for businesses who are facing challenges as a team or challenges as a marketplace.

And it's even helpful for for our journalists and people like I, I, I use that story was included in Jeannette Stawski's recent book, The Outdoor Leader recent book called The Outdoor Leader. So I have an excerpt in there from this trip that I did, you know, and that, that I learned so much about not just, you know, how to backcountry ski a multi day like big, big objective.

Yeah. Kind of thing, but also about leadership, about following, you know, when the right time is to be following and leading when the, when you're needed to be leading, and that is, It reminds me of kind of this uh, the dynamic in leadership. Like you don't always have to be the big, bad boss. You know, there's times to hand over the boss reins to your up and coming leader or identifying who is, who are your up and coming leaders and investing in them.

And then when the time comes, they have the skills and they have the ability to go out and go for it and take up, take the reins. And I learned a lot about that during this trip where I was not the trip leader. But I had to become the leader for, for at least a while away.

59:44 Do you have any advice for anyone looking to break into the outdoor industry?

My standard answer is for people who have, you know, been asking me this question for decades, I say, well, best way started retail, learn the retail ropes, go with the front lines, talk to people who are just getting into it or need a new piece of gear or need some advice about where to go and what to do. And you'll learn. Where the point pressure points are, where the pain points are, where the opportunities are, where the products are.

Learn More

You can follow up with Kenji at: the biggearshow.com and click contact.

Next Steps

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Keywords

#Outdoor industry, #Big Gear Show, #trade shows, #outdoor events, #diversity in leadership, #sustainable practices, #sustainability measures, #PFAS regulations, #environmental issues, #outdoor gear, #mentorship programs, #conservation efforts, #pandemic impact on outdoor industry, #sustainability initiatives, #re-commerce.

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