In this episode of the Making Sense podcast Sam Harris speaks with Thomas Chatterton Williams about the reality and politics of race. They discuss his book Self Portrait in Black and White, race as a social and biological construct, the prospects of achieving a “post-racial” society, interracial marriage, and other topics. Thomas Chatterton Williams is the author of Losing My Cool and Self-Portrait in Black and White. He is a contributing writer at the New York Times Magazine and American Scholar, and a 2019 New America Fellow. His work has appeared in the New Yorker, the London Review of Books, Harper’s, and other journals. Website: www.thomaschattertonwilliams.com Twitter: @thomaschattwill