This week on Real Talk with Rachael I'm chatting with the hosts of FamilyLife Today, Dave and Ann Wilson. They are also cofounders of Kensington Church, a national, multi-campus church that hosts more than 14,000 attendees every weekend.  Dave and Ann are authors of the book Vertical Marriage: The One Secret That Will Change Your Marriage.  The Wilsons live in the Detroit area where Dave served as the Detroit Lions chaplain for 33 years. Dave and Ann have three grown sons, CJ, Austin, and Cody, as well as three daughters-in-law and six grandchildren. Key Points from Our Conversation: A "vertical marriage" means putting God first before everything else, including your spouse. When your relationship with God is strong, it overflows into your marriage, helping you love and serve better. When things feel off, take time to reflect. Both partners shared that repentance—acknowledging their shortcomings before God—was the turning point that softened their hearts toward each other. Every marriage has peaks and valleys. When you’re at a low point, don't give up. Feelings may fade temporarily, but with commitment and work, love can grow again. Expecting your partner to meet all your emotional and spiritual needs is setting them (and yourself) up for failure. Only God can fill that role. Keeping God at the center takes a daily choice. Start each day by surrendering your life, your marriage, and your family to Him. If you’re stuck in a cycle of conflict or numbness, pause to evaluate your patterns. Are you blaming your spouse or avoiding the real issues? Start breaking the cycle by taking responsibility for your part. Ask the Big Question, "On a scale of 1 to 10, how are we doing in our marriage?" It’s a scary question, but it’s a powerful way to check the pulse of your relationship. Be prepared to hear the answer without getting defensive. Pray beforehand, and approach it with humility and a desire to grow together. Real intimacy requires working through the tough stuff—conflict, misunderstandings, and past baggage. You can’t avoid the chaos. Growth happens when you go through it, not around it. When challenges arise, resist the urge to blame your spouse. Look in the mirror and ask, “What’s my role in this?” True change begins when we own our selfishness and commit to doing the work. Stepping into hard conversations requires bravery. Even if the answer or response feels uncomfortable, it’s the first step toward deeper connection. Don’t give up, even when it’s hard. Marriage is a covenant, not just a contract. Seek help when needed—whether it’s through books, counseling, or community support. Remember, you’re building something that not o