"I need to build something to test the thing." Pablo & Gigi take a walk. Recorded December 2025. Projects & tech mentioned: TENEX (multi-agent coordination on Nostr) Agora (Nostr client for local communities, by Pablo & Leopoldo Lopez) NDK Swift & NDK Kotlin (native ports of NDK) nostrdb (embedded Nostr database) NIP-60 (Cashu wallets on Nostr) Podcasting 2.0 (open podcast ecosystem) #DeMu (decentralized music on Nostr) Olas (rebuilt with TENEX agents) castr.me (Nostr-to-RSS podcast feed) ants (Nostr search) Boris (reading and highlighting) Pyramid (fiatjaf's invite-tree relay) Kevin Kelly's 1,000 True Fans In this dialogue: Agents tried to fix world hunger: made a Google Doc and a React app, nothing worked, world hunger still not fixed "We're behaving like LLM agents: never learn" Everything Pablo builds is a way to test TENEX: "I need to build something to test the thing" Agora: a Nostr client starting from the premise that you only care about your immediate surroundings Invitation-based trust networks: cryptographic proof of who invited whom into a relay, similar to fiatjaf's Pyramid Citizen journalism use case: pseudonymous publishing where a known figure vouches for a source without revealing identity NIP-60 wallet baked into Agora: your key is no longer just identity, it's also money Social key recovery via Shamir secret sharing: select people you can reach (not necessarily trust), hidden behind follow events Identity migration for stolen keys vs. key loss recovery: two different problems, solvable with similar tools "Fiatjaf had the right ideas around community-based backup and recovery" Romantically shitting on paywalls: you cannot box content in, no matter how hard you try What you can monetize is not the content itself but the relationship, the access, the live interaction Twitch figured it out: everything is free, everywhere, always. People pay for something else entirely. Substack's