What will we be like when this thing is finally over? Will we be even more fearful and divided? Or is there a realistically rosier scenario? This is just one of the subjects we explore in a wide-ranging conversation with Rev. angel Kyodo williams. We also talk about the disutility of guilt in the face of all the horror we’re witnessing in the time of COVID, and how to reclaim the word "love" from the land of hopeless cliché. I really enjoyed this conversation, especially how it warmed up as it went. By way of background, Reverend angel is the author of such books as Radical Dharma and Being Black. She is the second black woman to be recognized as a teacher in the Japanese Zen lineage. One of her main areas of interest is how to apply meditation to social issues such as race, climate, and economic inequality. A lot of people think meditation and activism are two separate things, but Rev. angel argues that "without inner change, there can be no outer change." In this chat, we start with big-picture issues, and increasingly move toward more personal stuff. She's one of those people who gets even more fascinating the more time you spend with her. Where to find Rev. angel Kyodo williams online: Website: https://angelkyodowilliams.com/ Twitter: angel Kyodo williams (@ZenChangeAngel) / https://twitter.com/zenchangeangel Facebook: Rev. angel Kyodo williams / https://www.facebook.com/zenchangeangel Instagram: angel Kyodo williams (@zenchangeangel) / https://www.instagram.com/zenchangeangel/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ZenChangeAngel We've been nominated for two Webby awards. If you love and want to support our work, please vote for us via links in the episode description. Vote for us in the health & fitness app category / https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2020/apps-mobile-and-voice/apps-mobile-sites-general/health-fitness Vote for us in the voice category / https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2020/apps-mobile-and-voice/general-voice/health-fitness-lifestyle Other Resources Mentioned: Tonglen Practice / https://www.lionsroar.com/how-to-practice-tonglen/ James Doty / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Doty_(physician) All About Love by bell hooks / https://www.amazon.com/All-About-Love-Visions-Paperback-ebook/dp/B078GL796R Loving Kindness Practice / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB Additional Resources: Ten Percent Happier Live: https://tenpercent.com/live Coronavirus Sanity Guide: https://www.tenpercent.com/coronavirussanityguide We want to deeply thank and recognize teachers, warehouse workers, grocery and food delivery workers, and healthcare workers for the essential role that they play in our lives. For FREE access to the app and hundreds of meditations and resources visit https://tenpercent.com/care Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/rev-angel-kyodo-williams-245