Welcome to episode 47 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This special episode features a precious recording of Thich Nhat Hanh which was previously thought lost. Dating from 2012, it documents an interview journalist Jo Confino conducted with the Zen master in Plum Village’s Toadskin Hut. (Though since remastered, be aware that some background noise remains.) 

The conversation covers a wide range of absorbing topics, from the environment, climate change, and civilizational collapse to consumerism, the simple life, 70 years of practicing mindfulness, new Buddhism, passing on, and sangha as continuation. 

The recording is introduced by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and Jo Confino, who provide details about the context of the interview and the significance of certain places, people, and events which are mentioned.

“Thay is relaxed, insightful, open, and being Thay at his very best.”

Enjoy!

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ 

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List of resources 

‘The Toadskin Hut and Paths of Legend’
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/the-toadskin-hut-and-paths-of-legend/ 

‘Our Hamlets’
https://plumvillage.org/about/plum-village/hamlet/ 

Outrage + Optimism
https://www.outrageandoptimism.org/ 

Brother Phap Linh
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh/ 

Brother Phap Lai
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/br-phap-lai/ 

‘Bat Nha: The Indestructible Seed of Awakening’
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/bat-nha-the-seed-of-awakening/ 

Rains Retreat 2023-24
https://plumvillage.org/retreats/info/rains-retreat-2023/ 

Plum Village International Center in Thailand
https://plumvillage.org/practice-centre/plum-village-thailand/ 

‘New Contemplations before Eating’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/news/new-contemplations-before-eating/ 

Mahatma Gandhi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi 

Hurricane Sandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Sandy 

Stupas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupa 

Mara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon) 

‘The Five Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings/ 

40 Years of Plum Village: ‘Dharma Lamp Transmission during the 40 Years of Plum Village Retreat (June 11-12, 2022)’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/dharma-lamp-transmission-during-the-40-years-of-plum-village-retreat-june-11-12-2022/ 

Shambhala Sun/Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/shambhala-sun-is-changing-its-name-to-lions-roar-2/ 

‘Plum Village Practice in Vietnam – Some Background’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/blog/monastic/plum-village-vietnam-background/ 

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Quotes

“Love has no frontier.”

“When you are grateful, you are happy.”

“Why should they have the courage to think about the suffering of the Earth or the environment? They try not to think about it, like a camel who doesn’t want to realize that there’s a lion ahead, so they’re just looking to the sand in order to see only the sand. So that is the attitude of men; we are afraid, we don’t want to see the truth.” 

“Thay sent a message to the root temple [Tu Hieu Temple] saying, ‘You should not build a stupa for Thay, because Thay is continued out here.’ One person has already built a temple for Thay in Hanoi, so I reminded them to make the inscription outside, on the front: ‘I am not in here.’ And then if people don’t understand, you add a second sentence: ‘I’m not out there either.’ And if they still don’t understand, add the third and the last sentence: ‘I may be found, maybe in your way of breathing or walking. I’m not in here.’ The root temple has received that message. I said I don’t want to waste the land of the temple in order to build me a stupa. Don’t put me in a small pot in there; I don’t want to continue like that. It’s better to put the ash outside to help the trees to grow. That is the meditation.”

“It’s not true that I will die one day, because I have already died many times. And you die every moment and you are reborn in every moment.”

“The foundation of your happiness is understanding and love. So if you have that insight and you live by that insight, you will not be fearful anymore.” 

“We are happy because we are able to have the Buddha and to renew his teachings. He’s deeply misunderstood by many people, so we try to make the teachings available and simple enough so that people, all people, can make good use of that teaching and practice.” 

“Taking a walk and nourishing yourself never harmed anyone.”

“And if this body has 100 years’ mortality, Thay will continue to practice, to learn how to love better, to understand better; there’s no limit to the practice. And I think that is true of the human race: we can continue to learn, generation after generation. And I think it’s time for us to begin to learn how to love in non-discriminative ways. Because we are intelligent enough, but we are not loving enough as a race, as a species.” 

“I think our perception of time may help, because for us, it [the climate crisis] is a very alarming notion – but if Mother Earth suffers, she knows that she has the power to heal herself. If needed, she will take one hundred million years to heal herself. But for us, we think that our time on Earth is only 100 years, and that is why we are impatient. But I think the collective karma, the collective ignorance, anger, and violence of our race, will lead to our destruction.”