In this episode, we delve into the escalating feud between Elon Musk and Donald Trump. Our discussion touches on the origins of their disagreement, including the implications of Elon's resignation from Doge, differing political ideologies, and the tensions surrounding a significant budget reconciliation bill. We also examine the broader impact on the tech right and the Trump administration, the role of JD Vance, and the potential future of the right-wing movement. Additionally, there are reflections on political loyalty, the sustainability of government spending, and humorous tangents on unrelated personal anecdotes. Tune in to get the full breakdown of this high-stakes political drama.

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am actually not so excited to be here with you today. I do not like what's going on right now. Between Elon and Trump, there has been a big falling out, a big fight that's been happening online. I mean, like it has gone. Nuclear on both sides. and, and people may ask, oh, is this the end of the tech?

Right? No, it's not like this is, this is a fight that while I am disappointed in the people involved in it I. I did not expect more for them. If anything, I'm kind of amazed they kept things going for as long as they did. Mm-hmm. And they didn't fall to the progressive nonsense. If anything, it almost feel like this fight happened as soon as the progressive stopped trying to drive them apart because now they could have a falling out without it looking like they were tricked into it by progressives.

That's a fun theory. I, I think that ironically the months and months of progressives trying to do stories like, oh, president Elon and stuff like this ended up with Trump and Elon feeling like they can't break up without making it look like Progressives won. And then Elon leaves his job with the administration, and I'll note here.

He left his job with the administration. Like Doge is still operational. Like my brother, little brother works for Doge. Everything he set up was already on sort of auto when he left. Right. And I'll also note here that just because Elon has decided to who create a, a beef with Trump that does not mean that the tech right has a beef with Trump.

Mm-hmm. This is a personal issue. This is not an issue really. Of of politics. There was a political angle to it that started a lot of it. But this is not something that changes the tech rights opinion. And I'll note when people hear the tech right, they think tech workers, when really, I think a better way to think of the tech in that is the right, that is downstream of the online communities like four Chan and Gamergate and all of that.

That's right. Like yeah. Asma Gold I would see as a more central figure in the tech right than Elon in terms of sort of culture setting and idea generation. Mm-hmm. Like if, if, if somebody like Asma goal or like Nino or us came out and are like, we are anti-Trump now or we are anti MAGA now, like I would be like the tech right has a major issue like correct.

That two really big. Egos who you know, had, had worked together for as long as they did actually. Like, I kind of respect them both more just as they kept it going for as long as they did, because I did not expect it is

Simone Collins: really, they're such strong personalities that kind of I see as only being able to, they can only be one in the room.

And yet there were so many instances of both in the same room, both working together, both sharing the headlines. Yeah, it felt so crazy. And I mean, nothing that has happened recently undoes what Elon Musk did, which was play a pivotal role in getting President Trump elected. And role, I mean, Trump

Malcolm Collins: denies that.

Let, let's, let's put it, what I would say is I don't, I I'm, I, I wouldn't say that Trump would definitely have been elected without Elon's help. I'm saying he might have been, Elon helped solidify the tech right partnership. But the, the truth is, is that Elon, if, if you're talking about like who's the political king of the tech, right?

Like who's actually the tech, right. King, it's JD Vance. It's not you, obviously

Simone Collins: it's the vice president. Yeah. Next in line to the throne. Hello.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Put in place by like Peter Thiel, like he couldn't be more, he's a former vc, former atheist, now Christian like us, former vc, former atheist, now Christian.

You know, and, and

Simone Collins: JD Vance, by the way, is a very active vice president. I think for those who are outside the United States or even in it in the United States in general, a vice president is fairly feckless, not involved. Kind of like, I mean, there was even one, one vice president in American history who basically spent his entire term.

Totally blitzed in New York, not even in dc. You know, typically they have pretty distant offices and they, they play a very symbolic role. But JD Vance's office is in the west wing of the White House. It is, it is down the hall from President Trump. He is actively involved. So this is, he is in history, one of the most active vice presidents.

So not only was he selected and is that a major tone being sent by a now two term president about what the future of the party is going to look at. But he also, in his, from everything from the logistical position of his office to the active role he's playing in the Trump administration, JD Vance absolutely is the, the figurehead of the new right.

And the functional head of the new. Right.

Malcolm Collins: And, and I really appreciate that. Like, I, I'd like to say like. Everything that Elon has done for society and the world and, and you know, in terms of the things he's felt because he is done a lot in terms of the, the spaceship work in terms of his work in, you know, this culture formation.

He isn't, I, I think like if you're even like, come on, most tech white people don't see him as the guy who's like actually leading things. And no, I mean, it, it was never not understood that Elon is a mercurial guy. He, he's not somebody who you want to, he's somebody you want to get stuff done. Not to be the ideological figurehead of a movement in the way that JD Vance is.

JD Vance is almost sort of the opposite here, where he is. If you watch any of his speeches or anything like that, he's incredibly thoughtful. Cunning in terms of how he sort of stacks the deck. And that's something that I really appreciate. And for me, a big part of all of this is it from everybody involved is loyalty is, is a big value of mine.

And so even when because there's been multiple instances in which I feel like the administration has done things that the tech rate would disagree with but like I have been very easy being like, well, the alliance matters more than the individual policy things. Because we, we only together can we fight the urban monoculture.

And, and if we fall apart, America falls apart. Like there the other side is. Demonic in every way a thing can be demonic. You know, they, they sort humans by their ethnic group. They sort humans by their sexuality, they strip humans of their identity and, you know, national pride and ethnic pride and any, any, the pride in their ancestors and what they built their, it's, it's horrifying Right.

To, to see what they've done. And we can all work together and agree that like, we, we can fight for each of us to raise kids our own way. Yeah. But let's go into the details of what happened exactly here.

Simone Collins: Yeah. As you pointed out, first Elon Musk left Doge, IW we would say, well, before this particular TAs, AMIC started amicably

Malcolm Collins: and then unfortunately the news stopped.

Huge. Stopped trying to drive them apart. Yeah. And then what happened?

Simone Collins: Well then. Elon Musk comes out quite publicly against sort of the, the big, very important piece of the big bill, the big, the one big beautiful bill that, that Trump has been talking about since before he was elected. It includes many of his major campaign promises, and it's really important that it is passed now because this is sort of the one period during his four year tenure when it is expected for him to have the majority in the House and Senate.

He needs to get it passed. The, the one big beautiful bill which is, it's, it's a budget reconciliation. It bill, it's, it's, it's a very specific type of bill is also, it's something that can be passed because it's just a budget reconciliation. It's not about like you, like necessarily new stuff, really.

It's just about sort of. How we reconcile the budget, meaning that it doesn't need as much of a majority in order to pass, which is another reason why like, this is such a, a feasible win for the Trump administration and also again, why it's so important because it's delivering on many campaign. Well, also,

Malcolm Collins: it, it, it breaks a number of his campaign promises if it doesn't get passed.

Yeah. And one of the reasons it has to be so, from my understanding at least mm-hmm. Is it, is, is it, it has to be so big is. To, because a lot of stuff is expiring. Yes. And, and this is a bill that, that sort of reaffirms the status quo. Yes. And it may be a, a non-sustainable status quo, but if Trump does begin to cut benefits and stuff like that, that was always like his first and central promise.

It wasn't something I like, but it was something that I signed on for when I chose this alliance. And it was a promise that I believe he absolutely needed to make to get the votes to win. People going on him

Simone Collins: most about Trump in this administration. His, his second term in office has been this ruthless, efficient delivery on promises.

So it would be really weird if he was like, ah, but you know what? To be responsible. And I'm gonna get into in a little bit why I. Being responsible is a lot harder than we could even fathom. But like, yeah. I mean, it would be so weird if he, well, I mean, we've also

Malcolm Collins: gotta talk about like how, you know, Elon calling the bill.

Like, it, it really started with Elon saying a bunch of bad stuff about Trump. And Trump. Yeah. What are,

Simone Collins: let's see, what are some, trying really

Malcolm Collins: hard to not take the bait for a while. Yeah. Before he finally like, went hard. But, but he,

Simone Collins: he calls it literally a grotesque monstrosity filled with excessive pork and quote, a massive, outrageous pork filled congressional spending bill.

Like he. You know, I, that, that was

Malcolm Collins: passed in the dead of the night when Congress couldn't read it.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and even after that, you know, Trump was like, oh, you know, we had a good friendship and everything like that. And then, you know, he, he starts saying, well, you know, Elon Musk's gone crazy or he's wearing thin.

Like, even, even his reaction, I think later was pretty generous, which is to be like, I don't understand why he's acting this way. You know? Like, these are campaign promises I made. Like what am I supposed to do? Right. You know? Mm-hmm. And, and they were campaign promises he needed to make to win. Like the, I think that would

Simone Collins: be a good time too for us to expand on this a little bit.

So what were some of these campaign promises? Yeah. So one of them, for example was. Obviously to maintain the tax cuts that he had promised that, that he had first implemented. So while the Congressional Budget Office points out says that a lot of people think this is deeply unfair, that the bill increases our primary, that is non-interest budget deficit by 2.4 trillion over 10 years with the, the total deficit increase being 3 trillion.

This is only be because they expected that tax revenue of everyone's taxes going up. For the average American, it would've been between two and a half thousand and three and a half thousand dollars a year. So like non trivially, like ouch. For that to happen. So they were basically like, well, we expected that money and because this bill keeps things as they are.

Now you're increasing the deficit. But that was one big thing. Other things that he had promised were no taxes on tips, that that was a big thing which is in there. There are some things aside from the tax cut extension and. Some, some other promises that he had made regarding like Medicare benefits were, which were slightly expanded that I am not so sure about.

So there was a 150 billion defense spending increase. A lot of people are arguing that maybe that's where the pork is, because defense contractors are largely bene, I mean, hugely benefiting from that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they're all like DEI riddled and everything like that. I would not have personally pushed for that, but in, you know, in the scale of government spending.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And it, there's also this really random suppressor tax elimination for gun suppressors. It removes us a $200 tax on gun suppressors gun

Malcolm Collins: owners. Were really happy about that one. I know.

Simone Collins: I mean, like, it's god bless America, right? Like, don't tax our guns. But it's one of those things of like.

Well, clearly the gun lobby put that in. You know, this is not one of those, you know, we're just trying keep things the understand, understand, but you've gotta

Malcolm Collins: make up for this money when it disappears. Right. And that's, that's, that's what this bill is about. And

Simone Collins: this, this, yeah. And I mean, and I also wanna give credit to the bill and that it, it reduces incentives on renewable energy, so that, that's a, a, a cut in in spending.

Of course, some people point to that and they're like, that's more pork because fossil fuels interests benefit from it. There were also Medicaid and SNAP cuts. A SNAP is basically, it's our, it's our food assistance program in the United States. So a millions of people will lose coverage due to stricter eligibility.

One thing that the the guys on the All In podcast pointed out though is that the cuts that they've made to these programs don't even bring them back to pre pandemic levels, which they had, which is what I,

Malcolm Collins: with them

Simone Collins: hiked up. Yes. They, they'd been hiked up insanely when like everyone was outta work and we're just like, we're on emergency mode, spend all the money, which I can understand, but that's over, you know, we're in the new world.

We need to cut that back to pre pandemic spending. So I feel like they could have done a little bit more. So like, well, I, I think that the extent of the financial damage of this bill is distorted in that there was this expectation of tax revenue resulting from a, a tax cut lifting that.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, but he had Trump, this is the thing, the, the thing about what Trump's doing here is he has to make a bill that can pass.

Yeah. Okay.

With, it was in the current political reality that we are living in.

Mm-hmm.

And the thing that makes me feel bad about how this sort of played out is you have Trump attacking. I, I mean Elon is attacking Trump for the size of this bill. Mm-hmm.

Mostly because Trump tried to brand it as a big beautiful bill, which if is a normal Trump thing.

Very Trump, right? Yes. I don't think that Trump likes really likes that a big bill is passing either, but that's how he brand things to get people excited. And, and then he puts in what he can while cutting what he thinks he can get away with. Cutting. Right.

Simone Collins: And they did. I mean, it, it is impressive given how any cut.

To some kind of like, to snap to Medicaid is, is like, voters are mad about that, right? Yeah. Because like the people who come out to these city council meetings, like the people who voted in favor of this bill, the politicians who did are going to get so much heat for this already. There is this one woman who like has gone viral because in some town hall meeting people are like, people are gonna die 'cause of these cuts.

And she's like, well, we're all gonna die. And then she got heat for that. And I'm just, god bless her. No. This

Malcolm Collins: point I'm making is, is, yeah, this is, a lot of people are putting a lot of political capital on the line to make this happen. You know, this was downstream of a lot of negotiations. Mm-hmm. And this is hard.

Simone Collins: Even this is hard.

Malcolm Collins: The, the Trump guys who put this bill together, they didn't, they wanted to cut back snap cards further. I can almost guarantee you, 'cause I like know some of these guys they're not happy that this is, they, they, they limited themselves because this is what they thought they could do to best meet the campaign promises.

A as to why Trump reacted to Elon this way. What else was he supposed to do in the first place other than be sort of snide or then say he's crazy. And then Elon is like, well, then Trump is replaced by a body double. Right. You know, or, or like, but I don't see, this doesn't come off as like Trump has always been an economic populist on, on this sort of stuff.

Another thing, I mean, aside from

Simone Collins: the fact that a president is obligated to follow through with his campaign promises I just wanna point out that, let's, let's just say hypothetically. The Trump administration worked with Congressional Republicans to pass a bill that literally halted all discretionary spendings, so operational, military, et cetera, while only maintaining social security, Benner, veterans benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, and debt interest payments.

So like, just the stuff to keep the people alive, right? Everything else is gone. Gone. Yeah. No building knew anything. No, no research, no, no fema, right? Like nothing. None of that. No. Like weather service, like no. NASA gone, boom, boom, right? We, we would, we would still run a deficit in our budget. Malcolm, it, it would be impossible to balance our budget under those conditions because we.

If we look at our, like 2025 mandatory spending, 1.3 trillion social security, 400 billion veterans benefits, 1.5 trillion to Medicare, 600 billion to Medicaid. Interest on debt is 952 billion. So the total is $4.752 trillion. Okay? That is how much on this super, like only keep people alive? Budget. Okay. But our, our tax revenue is 4.4 trillion, so we, we need 4.75.

We we're getting 4.4. So we would either need to increase our taxes or further reduce these sort of like essential lifeline spending. Programs to even begin to pay down our debt is eventually

Malcolm Collins: gonna fall apart. Like we've said this before, it as well likes, and

Simone Collins: obviously this is clear. I mean like, I think this helps to illustrate too, like with demographic collapse, just how hard this is gonna hit and how unsustainable it's

Malcolm Collins: ratio cascade.

Right now for every 1.8 Americans paying into the tax system, there's one person living off of it. You know, this, this cannot, like, if this gets much worse things are going to start breaking apart. This is what demographic collapse. Causes this is why Doge is so tied to demographic collapse because it has been giving us a wider timeline by dealing with this.

Mm-hmm. But you, you've gotta keep in mind, you can just be like, as a businessman, like, this is not sustainable. Which it's not. So, like, I understand Elon's perspective, but Trump isn't a businessman. And, and I think it took him a while to learn that in politics you're not a businessman. It's not about doing what's practical, it's about getting as much as you can towards what's practical.

And, what happened after this? If, if you look at where this went from this is that really the wheels really spiraled off a after this point. Well, so Trump spread, cut Elon's subsidies and, and contracts with the government, which is a huge source of, of money for his companies. And, and he stated that he surprised Biden didn't do it, seeing how big it was.

No. Oh no.

Simone Collins: You know, this also reminds me of, of a portion you put in the pragmatist guide to governance about girls like high school girls making a school lunch choice and like what happens in any natural dominance, dominance hierarchy where like the alpha gets threatened publicly. The alpha has to, they have to lot, they have to act because if Trump does not lash back out, he is now a weak feted.

Not respect worthy presence. He's Elon's

Malcolm Collins: B, like, that's what everyone would think. If Elon was just able to trash him without him fighting back

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: He would look really bad. He has to fight back.

Simone Collins: Like, there's no choice here.

Malcolm Collins: And he tried not to at first. That's the thing that gets me about all of this.

He was being so, like, he was being snide, but he was being gracious in the way that, you know, he, he, he could but when it became clear that this was like a thing, he, he then started to go all Trump. And then so, so, you know, first he's, he threatens Elon's contracts, right? Like, this is where Trump actually is.

Like, that's mean. That, that, that to me was like, okay, you're, you're getting mean here. Like actively, right? Mm-hmm. And then Elon. Snaps back with the Epstein file stuff. And saying that Trump is, is in the Epstein files and that the truth will come out. And he, he seems to be implying that he may have information people have speculated on, does Elon have information?

If Elon doesn't have information, this is gonna look really bad for him.

Note that Elon has since deleted this tweet.

Malcolm Collins: The reason why I do not believe he has information and I'm gonna tell the story as, as I remember it, but I will check this with gr Oh

Simone Collins: no, I, I, I'll, I'll tell it because I actually looked it up. Okay. And this is really compelling.

Malcolm heard this discussed first on Leo Flits podcast, YouTube channel, whatever, love Lee, right?

Malcolm Collins: YouTuber, yeah. The other new right person. Other tech right person. You know what I mean?

Simone Collins: Yeah. But she she pointed out that if Donald Trump. Knew that Donald Trump had, or that if Jeffrey Epstein had dirt on him, there would probably not be past evidence of Donald Trump slighting Jeffrey Epstein, because you don't slight someone when they have really damaging stuff on you.

However a according to the Grifters Club, which is a book about Mar-a-Lago, great. I mean, it was flattering. Epstein's membership was terminated in October, 2007 after he hit on or harassed a teenage daughter of another club member. The book sites, club members and investigative reporting from the Miami Herald stating that Trump kicked Epstein out after Epstein Arra harassed the daughter of a member, and that this was seen as necessary to protect the club's reputation.

CBS 12 news also reported. That Trump barred Epstein from Mar-a-Lago after allegedly sexually harassing a girl there. So this, this implies, and I mean I think it's really compelling.

Malcolm Collins: This was before any of this stuff was public, right? Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. Trump banned Epstein for his properties, for be any, and he also joked about this on camera in a way that was like, you guys should probably, there was this line of like, Trump being like, he likes him young ha ha like laughing uncomfortably.

Mm-hmm. It seems to be implying like, look, I don't have time to do anything about this, but if you want to, like, you should probably do something about this. Was was very much the impression. I've always, in fact, I am not aware of a single other institution or individual other than Trump calling out Epstein for being into underage kids before the big public reveal.

So I double checked this with AI and it appears accurate. Trump is literally the only human being in the world who had his institutions ban Epstein for being a sex PE before he was publicly caught.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I mean, I can understand why there are conspiracy theories about Epstein and Trump, because Trump had. Promised, I think, to release the, well, it's not

Malcolm Collins: just that he was really close with Epstein and Epstein like called him his best friend at points and stuff like that, but I think Epstein was trying to get Trump and I think Trump wasn't having it.

Simone Collins: Hmm. And Trump hasn't re released the full Epstein files, but my suspicion there is that there is dirt on someone in there that Trump doesn't want to hurt.

Malcolm Collins: Specifically your guest was one of his kids, which I can totally see. Especially, and once Epstein would target

Simone Collins: one of Trump's kids, especially if Epstein was like trying to chase after Trump.

Malcolm Collins: So also you've gotta keep in mind, so we, you know, as people who know a lot of rich people, we know people who have been targeted by Epstein. We know how the whole shtick works. You know, like he'll send young girls to your room when you're like doing something with him. And the problem is, is okay, so suppose you turn.

The girls away, right? Which is the person we know immediately turned the girls away. What can you, what can, what can you do at that point, right? Like, he's still on record as having sent girls to you, right? Like he can still say, oh, I, I sent them to you. So I can understand like if, if, if, if Epstein tried to send girls to like Trump's room or something like that and Trump sent the girls away, or he tried to send it to one of Trump kids' room, like still would you want that coming out, right?

Like,

Simone Collins: yeah. Well, and I think, you know, Donald Trump is fairly comfortable with people coming at him with accusations and it's just happened so much at this point. Like, who cares? I could see him having a very different standard even for baseless accusations when it comes to people that he really cares about.

And it doesn't have to necessarily be family, it could be anyone. So, but I also understand how. Elon Musk could, you know, scrolling Twitter especially if really tired, just be like, oh, you know, this is really cool. Oh, he's really

Malcolm Collins: angry. You know, again, they have to like, and I think

Simone Collins: I, I also wanna go into like how frustrating his position has been.

I mean, one, after he left Doge, like after he went from DC to do other really important work a lot of backers and people who always hated the tech right faction and always hated him personally, started getting in Trump's ear and started turning Trump away from tech rights appointments. For example, Jared Isman, who totally tech right figure was up to head up nasa Trump had, you know, appointed him and he was going through the process of confirmation that he was seen as like clearly gonna get through.

Suddenly he was called, and, you know, Trump, the president has made a change, you know, a strategic change, you know, thank you. But you're no longer the appointee. Like, so people are getting kicked out. And I think that, that there are people who, and obviously Steve Bannon is one of them, like just hate Elon Musk and are whispering in Trump's ear trying to undo really hard work he's doing.

Compounding that is the fact that Elon Musk, I think is very used to going really hard in on a project. Walter Isaacson described it as de bid mode. I think actually quoting Grimes where he just like is really zeroes in on a project and like loses everything else, but also like, gets a ton done.

And. He also, and this shows up across both of his biographies and any history of press coverage of him will pathologically over promise on a project. And he'll eventually deliver. It's just gonna be late, you know, and it takes a while because he takes on the world's most challenging things. And before the, the 2024 election concluded, Elon Musk was out there saying, I'm gonna cut 2 trillion in government spending.

You know, this is gonna be amazing with, you know, doge. And then after the election and Trump had won, he's like, oh, I'm gonna cut 1 trillion in spending. This is gonna be great. And then early 2025 it's, it's 150 billion. You know, it's like going down and down because he is like already, you know, having to contend with so many.

Roadblocks just left and right. I said, it's like,

Malcolm Collins: it's like trying to run a company with your arms and legs tied up, like Yeah. You know, and, and he, yeah. Like he's, yeah,

Simone Collins: normally he's, he's running into his projects, basically wearing an Ironman suit. You know, these are private companies and he runs hard and fast, like he'll set up energy generation plants without the proper approvals.

Like, because that's, that's move fast and break things. That's like how a Silicon Valley mogul works. And that's how someone, you know, a private individual, a a venture philanthropist will change the world. And it's great, but when you enter the government, there are so many controls and there's so much red tape and so much bureaucracy that despite the fact that you can go in with a flame thrower and try to take it out, it is so much more frustrating.

Annoying. Yeah. It's, it's Iron Man suit to having both your arms and legs tied behind your back. So imagine how frustrating that would've been. Now in terms of estimates, it's still expected that Doge is eventually going to save a trillion dollars, which is huge and already. Well, maybe they, so far Doja has reported 160 to 180 billion, but this is.

We're only a tiny bit in, we're not even a year in, we've, we have time unless they sunset when they said they were in the sunset. It's

Malcolm Collins: so incredible what they've been able to do. It's more than I ever thought I would ever see from a government. I am so humbled by the accomplishments of Doge. I think it's one of the biggest political projects we've seen of our lifetime.

Mm-hmm. It, it is, you know, and the people it brought in like the best of the best. Mm-hmm. Like when I say like my, my little brother works at Joe. My little brother's last job was running one of the largest chains of IVF clinics in the United States, which he grew and sold. So he doesn't need to work at Doge.

He's working at Doge because he's a genius and everyone working at Doge ISS a genius. And that's

Simone Collins: how this is with all these, all the people working at Doge, all these appointees, all these people, I mean, like the, the, the guy who was supposed to run nasa, Jared Isman is a billionaire. He. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I

Simone Collins: mean, he, he like is literally losing money by not spending his time on his own projects.

He, he lost six months of his life on this and didn't even get appointed. Very frustrating. But anyway,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. That, that is, I just wanna

Simone Collins: point out how frustrating this must be for Elon Musk. And so I can understand why he hundred million dollars

Malcolm Collins: spent on the campaign. He helped Trump on the campaign trail.

But, but, and, and, and look at where things are now. So now Elon has basically accused Trump of being A-A-A-P-D-A file. Right. Which is not awesome from Trump's perspective. Like Trump has to clap back on this. It's a, he has to, it's not like a small thing. Right. And then, and then Elon says that he, SpaceX is gonna decommission the Dragon spacecraft due to contract cancellation threats.

Like, oh, we're gonna do this preemptively, like one that's really sad if he does. Right. He's really

Simone Collins: sad.

Malcolm Collins: And then, you know, EE Elon is suggesting that JD Vance replaced Trump based on the tariffs, which he's, he's always been against. And I can understand, you know, your tradi, the, the, the, the, a lot of tech, right?

People being against the tariffs, like they don't sit great with me either. The reason why we're okay with them, and we're okay with them is, is America has to prepare for deglobalization. And that China, you know, we need to cut China out of more of our supply chains. And so this is basically a hard economic pill to swallow, to make that happen.

And Trump needs to deliver on his promises to the every man worker, which was a big part of the voter, you know, base for him. And this does actually help them, right? Like, we can pretend it does, but it does, right? Like the cheap goods that were produced in China, you know, now we're rolling up operations.

Like even Simone and I we're recently looking at developing like a band that can. Do simple AI like, text to speech, so you can just talk to it whenever you want. And and then we're gonna like white label this, three different startups. We have so many weird projects that we're working on.

But anyway, this, this, this product, I historically would've gone straight to China to make this product. Right now I'm looking at places I can make it in the us I would not be doing that if not for these tars and if not for, yeah, we,

Simone Collins: we appreciate that we have been incentivized Leslie because we think that's important.

We think every country should be anticipating as, I mean, back to that whole spending thing, right? Governments are about to collapse. Like they cannot afford to government anymore in like 10 years. So we need to anticipate this and every government needs to figure out at least how to build food security and energy independence.

And then. You know, to whatever extent, independence with other things too. There will still be some trade in the future, obviously, but like, we just need to a better safe than sorry. And obviously there, there are ways that the tariffs could have been approached or can still be approached that make it easier for us to ignite the manufacturing industry here in the United States.

Because right now it's like tariffs kind of almost, they're also making it harder for us to just build that infrastructure, which is frustrating. But yeah. You know, yeah, it, it, every, this is frustrating for everyone involved, but I think in the end it's

Malcolm Collins: frustrating 'cause it, it completely aligns with both of their characters.

Yeah. Like, like neither of them isn't being who they are. They are. The writing

Simone Collins: was on the wall for this one. The

Malcolm Collins: writing was always on the wall. It was remarkable. It stayed together as long as it did. Yeah. It, it, it's, it's a situation where you know, I'm not, I'm not coming out of this being like, like this situation happened fortunately, you know, after Elon had left.

The bigger problem with this situation is that it, it allows the, you know, deep state government slime type, old, old, old GOP Inc. People, right? Slime to yeah. On the right. The right has its own deep state. The right has its own, you know, you know, long standing bureaucratic class that hated the tech rights.

Hated them coming in. Oh, what have you done? You haven't worked in government for 20 years. You only built a billion dollar company. You're not

Simone Collins: even that. They just don't like, they don't like our. Politics as well. Yeah. Politics of tech acceleration, pro ai, all this stuff. They're very, and so

Malcolm Collins: then they, they go and they snipe you know, these guys projects and they use the fact that there is a, a feud between Trump and AI to try to make the entire tech right.

Faction look mercurial and our loyalty. Mm-hmm. Which is not the fact, like, it, it, it, you know, we have been completely steadfast in support of the administration from the very beginning. And so has pretty much every other major player I know except for a few who spun out, which are pretty interesting to talk about.

Like we had, richard Hania, who would've been like adjacent to the text right on the show in the early days of the show. And he spun out in an article. Oh, we also had Alex Kta on the show. Did

Simone Collins: we have Alex

Malcolm Collins: Kta? I think so. I

Simone Collins: think we did. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We may not have aired the episode. I may have forgotten to air it anyway.

No, I sometimes forget to air interviews. Oh, you can't air it now? 'cause now she has a completely different political position. Mm. But most of them turned against Trump. You know, and the New York Times we're free to do so, and heterodox doesn't mean choosing a side, you know. No, no, no. But, but that, the New York Times did a piece on it and everything, and a lot of our audience warned us about these individuals.

Like when we had you know, not about Alex Chuda, Alex Chuah, she's not even American. Whatever. Like, I can understand why say a non-American would be upset about America's tariffs. But in, in regard to Richard Hania you know, when he first came on our show like our discord was all, oh, you can't trust that guy.

You know, what, a slime ball, everything like that. No, this is. Now I went to Simone, and Simone remembers it. I was like. Man, like, I don't know what he did to like piss him off. Like I, I'm afraid that I could piss off like our audience. I don't wanna get like a reputation of being like a grifter who's just going with the wind wherever he thinks he can make more money.

I don't wanna be known as somebody who, you know, people can't trust to have sort of a, like, I, I, I will change my political opinion over time, but I try to always explain in detail in a way that is consistent with my character, why my political opinion updated. Like, not in a way that feels. Gery, and I was like, maybe it's just Capriciousness, or maybe it's just that he's been known longer than I am, that he's developed this reputation.

And then so I was like, I don't know, like, are we gonna step on the rake one day? And then he turns on Maga, he turns on Trump. All of a sudden I was like, oh, that's why they were doing that. They had a better read of him than I

Simone Collins: did. And, and I mean, I don't, I don't see someone turning on Trump and, and maga I mean, like, I mean it's, it's frustrating in so far as like, okay, well what do you practically wanna do then?

Because we have to move forward and I'd rather move forward in a less wrong way than a, an extremely wrong way. And I thought that voting Democrat, or I mean voting independent is throwing away your vote in the United States voting Democrat is, I, I would, I thought would be a much more damaging. So I, I, I get it from that perspective, but I'm also like, you know, do we.

I don't wanna be that kind of person who derates someone just because they choose to not support a political candidate or criticize a political candidate. I

Malcolm Collins: disagree with you to an extent. I think, you know, if you're on a team, you need to have faith that the other people on that team will not like we make different opinion.

You and I make opinions the Trump administration is, is is navigating a political tightrope and everything like that. You can't be, because it's a political tightrope that has multiple factions that have divergent needs within them. Mm-hmm. We have to be really careful, like in, in writing the, the prenatal list book that I'm writing right now one of the things that I point out is, you know.

Catholics and us have a completely different understanding of when, for example, like life begins, right? Like we think they're killing kids 'cause they're preventing IVF. And I'm like, well, you know, if you prevent IVF, that's a human who would've been alive. Like, you are responsible for all of the decisions in the timeline that you choose.

Even the ones that affect people who aren't born yet. Like just because the person isn't born doesn't mean that you haven't harmed them. Like if I go back in time and I sterilize my wife, I have prevented my kids from existing, I'm responsible for that. And then they think that we are because of like the IBS stuff.

So like, how do you get over this? Right? And it's like, well, you gotta say, okay, cultural sovereignty. Because at the end of the day both they and we in terms of the laws, we could actually get passed. Have a huge amount of overlap. They're not gonna be able to ban abortion entirely. We're not gonna be able to create a super soldier program in the United States that the, those physicians are not going to win.

So, but we can boas restrict abortion more. We can boast, you know, remove the gender ideology stuff in schools. That's something we both want. We can both, you know. But the problem is, is if you can't trust these people in this alliance to not attempt to jump for the things that are gonna lose the entire alliance po like, like votes just so their faction can get little wins how, how can we trust them?

How can we trust them to not ban IVF if we are gonna push for something like, you know, pushing for entitlement cuts. If we push for entitlement cuts which we already are cutting drastically, but I mean even more Jurassic entitlement cuts. We're, we could lose future elections. Mm. And that's something that yes, we the tech right, really care about, but we've gotta have compromises.

And if they can't trust that we're not gonna turn on them as they try to compromise to, to, to work with the various factions here. Mm-hmm. It, it's very hard to navigate in a fight that I see as like existential. It's a fight for human civilization. It's a fight for against a, a faction in, within the United States.

It divides humans based on their ethnicity and, and, and gender that divides humans based on their, you know, sexual preferences that, that, that has all of these horrifying beliefs. That's, you know, distributing COVID vaccines based on ethnicity and not based on risk, right? Like that is, this is, this is wild to me.

And, and out of all of these things that places Jews at the bottom again you know, we've seen this before, like the people that we're fighting against, we may have differing ideology, but like we have these differing ideologies. You know, Elon's worry about government spending, I think is completely accurate, right?

Like, this is something we need to be worried about. The, the other factions worried about, you know, entitlements and us being able to win elections if we, if we cut like Medicaid or, or, or social security or something like that. That's, that's a completely honest and, and to me when I look at this bill, it looks like a compromise.

And this is why I got really mad was like the Heritage Foundation thing. Like, not, not mad, but I was disappointed in them, to be honest. I wasn't mad at them. I was just like. Come on guys. Because like their prenatal list person did some piece on how you're, like, you're not a real prenatal list if you're doing like IVF and, and if you want humans to improve over generations and if you, you know, want like genetic technology.

And I'm like, come on, this has been core to Americana and Americanism from our inception. This is even when you look at our anti-Nazi stuff, who was the anti-Nazi, but Captain America, a human who was genetically augmented by scientists to improve what humanity is and what a a, an American can be and that you don't want to engage with this stuff is totally fine for me, right?

Like we can work together because then the stuff we can actually get past, we have the same goals. But it's, it's, it's, it's disappointing to see this play out. But it, well,

Simone Collins: especially like to the, the leftist media's glee or even mainstream media's glee, like, literally, because I can't turn it off 'cause I have a Mac, apple News keeps showing me headlines.

And recent economist headlines was this sort of gleeful. Trump has many ways to hurt Elon Musk if he wants to. Like, in case you're getting mad, just, just look at this list. It's just so annoying. Like, everyone's just jumping on this like, yes. Finally they have no more power. And I, no, like Doja is still here.

Doja is still happening. The, the advance is still VP. That

Malcolm Collins: backs down from all of this is gonna look like the bigger man in a big way. Mm-hmm. That, that's what I will say the first of them that is just like, you know what, whatever. I know you can't say I was wrong. I know neither of you can say that.

I would note here that both parties significantly deescalated over the weekend with Elon deleting tweets. Elon wishing Trump well on X, , Trump in turn saying that he was not preoccupied with the feud.

Malcolm Collins: But just, just replying with great, this is no longer a fight for dominance. This is a fight that makes our entire faction look bad. Again, it's not a fight that anyone didn't expect. I, I was shocked when Doge was actually set up. I was shocked every week it continued to operate with the progressive media trying to drive.

Oh yeah. I was so

Simone Collins: sure it wasn't actually gonna happen. Like, it sounded so cool. I wouldn't crazy if that actually happened.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that was one of my like, what? Come on. They never actually make that happen, right? Mm-hmm. Obviously I want American Academy more than Doge and I want the the, the other unpromised voter promise that I'm really upset hasn't been done yet is the one that makes it illegal for tech companies to censor except based on CP and terrorism.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and do have to tell people when they're censoring stuff. That was a campaign promise that was really important to me that I haven't seen action taken on yet. But other than those two, doge was like my top thing and I thought it was like a fantasy thing, right? Like, and. We got it.

It's alive and

Simone Collins: well, guys.

Malcolm Collins: It's, it's the time and money that Elon sacrificed to make Doge happen, I think was Civilizationally saving potentially. But you know, I'm just, was was this particular battle, I've gotta call it like I see it, right? You know. And I, I think reaffirm where we stand, which is you know, with jd, right?

Like if, if JD turns on Trump, that's when, when you can be like, okay, our loyalty becomes a less issue. It's it's

Simone Collins: bad now. It's gone bad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I'd be like, JD knows a lot of what's going on. He's very cunning. I really trust his judgment. If he is turning on Trump, I would say especially I'd say that like, okay, I actually need to think about this now.

Right? Like, does this alliance continue to make sense? And, and which team am I on?

Yeah.

But the Trump and Elon falling out, everyone knew that would happen and you were an idiot if you didn't think this was gonna happen. Eventually. We've always been like, I can't believe that the two, like most powerful people in the world are somehow able to work together.

That, that seems, especially two people with such fiery personas.

Now, you said one of the things when we were talking about this is you're like, yeah, well, all of these old bureaucrats from the old right. Needs to learn the new right. Is eventually gonna replace them. What are your thoughts on that?

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, the, the, the new the new right represents any basically a, a high fertility technophilic culture that

Malcolm Collins: is, well, it's a high fertility technophilic culture that is incredibly focused on cultural sovereignty.

That is the core value system of the new, right?

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: You es us or our kids. Okay. Yes.

Simone Collins: And. That those are the only cultures in our view that are going to have power in the future because what else do you have? Okay, so what what we have is low fertility technophilic cultures, which is basically the urban monoculture that's not going to inherit the future in any meaningful way.

And then you have high fertility technophobic cultures, which while maybe very large in number, are not going to get to call the shots because in the end, the drone swarm is going to, the guy with the drone swarm is going to to call the shots. The, the, the, the families who have genetically engineered kids who don't get diseases and are more impervious to germ warfare and who are incredibly, you know, smart and athletic and pro social and everyone loves them, are, are gonna win and dominate social media and all these other things and sell the products that everyone else buys.

Yeah. So. It's really important that the old guard of the right, that in, in some cases here we are seeing, trying to poison the tech right in President Trump's ear. Get with the fact, the reality that if we're looking at the long game, they really wanna be friends with these guys. And I think the reason why there's this remaining active animosity is the particular people who are very anti tech right, are only thinking for themselves and this current generation and this, this current time and their power and influence today, period.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They, for them this is, it's like it is for the Democrats, it's a complete power game and it's a complete like, oh, let's get was the king, let's get it there. They're not thinking about the long term of the empire. And, and the, the tech right is always thinking about the long term. That's the thing that really differentiates the two.

One of the things that differentiates the two factions. Mm-hmm. And, and particularly the loudest voices here. Yes. I see entirely self-interested. Which is really, really sad. To see that they've been able to gain as much power as they have to be able to cause these sorts of divisions that do nothing but hurt.

The Republican party's electability.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It's depressing. But yeah. We'll see how this plays out. I mean, everyone loves a little drama. So

Malcolm Collins: Well Elon does start a new party. Are you gonna, are you gonna, what would you, what would you do in regards to that? I mean, with all his money and influence behind it?

Simone Collins: Oh. If there's like a new party, kind of like Elon Musk was suggesting that we need a new party.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. I mean, he does have one of the largest social media platforms. A lot of money.

Simone Collins: Listen, we've had a lot of people talk about new parties.

Malcolm Collins: It doesn't work. Yeah, it would just divide the right, like the right, it just

Simone Collins: doesn't work.

Every time, like I, I am sure academics and economists and political scientists have detailed models. I'm pretty sure I've listened to at least like five NPR segments on why it is literally technically impossible to create a viable third party per the United States current political system. So,

Malcolm Collins: well, I also think this is not a conversation worth having.

Well, was this around a new party? Like what did he and Trump blow up over? It was like entitlement and you. Yes, every reasonable person in America knows that we can't keep working with the existing entitlement system. But every reasonable person also knows no one can win a majority of votes fighting the existing entitlement system.

So, you know, or

Simone Collins: agreeing to pay more in taxes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Like while asking people to pay more in taxes, you're gonna pay more and get less. Like, okay, you can, you can show them on a sheet, like this is the only thing that works, but you're not gonna, you're not gonna win an election. Yeah. I mean, I

Simone Collins: think if you sat someone down and had the reasonable conversation and you told them like, well basically the US government is gonna start just printing money like crazy to keep being able to pay for these programs, meaning that money's gonna lose a lot of, it's, its value and we'll see hyperinflation and everyone's gonna have to adjust to live a very, compared to our terms now, austere lifestyle.

You could also tighten your belt right now and live a halfway there o auste lifestyle so that your kids maybe have it a little bit easier. And I think most people are gonna be like, you know what, I think I'm gonna take my chances with the whole printing money hyperinflation thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, that, that is literally what a lot of people are gonna do.

And, and, and, and, and the thing is, is, ah. People just don't think about tomorrow, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and, and what we need to do on the tech right is figure out how to utilize the mindless drone vote to make marginal improvements before the system collapses. We can't do what's logical and rational because we're not dealing with a logical and rational voter base.

Our founders tried to prevent this situation. They tried to create a system where we elected electorates who were smart and rational, and who could think through everything and who would vote on our behalf. That system

Simone Collins: decidedly, and this was something, this is one reason why I have loved the tech, right sabbaticals essentially, that have been taking place in government where these.

Incredible investors, entrepreneurs, you know, billionaires in some cases, you know, people who are very, very successful from the business world are taking stints to do service in the US government is that, that really to me, reflects what the founding F fathers wanted. You know, these are people who had their own lives, their own careers, their own families who did not become an or want to be career politicians who stepped up to serve in the US government and then stepped back down.

And that's George Washington was really trying to set that tone. He was like, I'm not gonna be your king. I'm gonna go off and live in Mount Vernon with my fricking Christmas camel and my farm, and it's gonna be great. And that is what I, I just loved seeing that in this administration of like, maybe we can come back to the system of governance where we have this rotation of brilliant people.

Voluntarily serving in the US government because a place has been made for them and making it better. But I dunno if that's gonna keep happening now, especially since I, you know, I think the great thing about the people who are right now trying to poison the tech, right, and President Trump's ear, is that they are so venomous as people in general, that they're, they're not gonna last very long politically.

Oh no,

Malcolm Collins: they're, they're, they're, they're vile, venomous, snake, deep state slime who will bite you the moment you turn your back. And I, and I think Trump relying on them in his first you know, period in office is why almost nothing got done. Absolutely. And I think that people who show this tendency to betray people who are trying to work alongside them to achieve great ends we as, as, as sort of like a wider faction, we need to have a forgiveness rule.

But if it's a repeated pattern, you know, we need to be like, this is not somebody we can trust anymore. I don't care, you know, how many years you've been working in government, if you turned around and betrayed the collective movement for your individual aims and your factions individual goals in a way that doesn't help when votes or isn't was in the ideological overlap.

You're not, you're out period. Mm-hmm. And I think what people aren't seeing yet is JD Vance hasn't been making calls yet 'cause he's not running the party yet, but he will be eventually. And I think he is significantly more shrewd on that front and will be more aggressive on that front than Trump has been.

And a lot of these people don't understand that they're playing this system with, you know, Trump's like really sharp for, for what he is, right? But also, you know, he's like, what,

Simone Collins: 78 years old,

Malcolm Collins: 78 years old, you know, and he's, he's got multiple factions whispering in his ear that are new to him. He didn't grow up with, he doesn't exactly know, you know, he's new to the Republican party at all, right? Like, this guy is a New York Democrat, you know, coming into this. And, and JD Vance is seeing every venomous self-dealing snake try to manipulate this 80-year-old man.

And while he may not be making moves now, I expect him to be making moves eventually. And I don't think the Democrats have anyone in the lineup who can compete with somebody like JD anyway. I love you to death, Simone. Are we going to try sushi tonight?

Simone Collins: No, because we have to thaw out the meat and grains.

Oh. How long

Malcolm Collins: does it take to thaw the tuna?

Simone Collins: If I take it out now, maybe by Sunday we can try it.

Malcolm Collins: Would you be okay with trying California rolls tonight? We have all the ingredients for that.

Simone Collins: We'd need to get more of the basic ingredient. What's in a California roll?

Malcolm Collins: A California roll is a cucumber and avocado and imitation crab.

Simone Collins: The imitation crab is also frozen.

Malcolm Collins: Oh.

Simone Collins: So why don't we, why don't we do Sunday? And today would you prefer to have Let's do panang. Okay, perfect. I think that's a good choice.

Malcolm Collins: Whatever the other batch you're drawing from it sometimes has like weirdly cooked hard chicken in it.

Simone Collins: I'm sorry, I don't know what caused it.

Maybe just great chicken. Try to cut out all the bits. I think aren't gonna be perfect 'cause chicken is still meat.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we're gonna move more tofu to see if I can get more consistently, because I don't hate tofu.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah, don't say that though. You'll freak out your audience. Oh

Malcolm Collins: no. Soy boy. Malcolm's trying more tofu.

Really bad. He doesn't like the, the, the inconsistent texture. No, sorry.

Simone Collins: Malcolm is going to be butchering calves on our property going forward. So that's, that's the plan.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, not cals the poor. I'm going to be butchering the poor. I would

Simone Collins: not eat the, the, do you know what? Do what? Yeah. What are they eating?

Malcolm? You know, I

Malcolm Collins: only fuel my car with biodiesel made out of elderly people. That is my

Simone Collins: fuel source. And what are they? I mean, like, I, I think there's something very appealing about a cow that has been munching on this, this verdant grass under a field, you know? And I just, when I picture what most people are eating,

Malcolm Collins: oh, you don't trust the health.

You're, you're mom. That's what I'm saying. Me eating the poor because you're like,

Simone Collins: they're just, just full of red dye number 40. And the funny thing is, is

Malcolm Collins: you're probably correct. I, I don't imagine it would be very healthy to eat a homeless person.

Simone Collins: I, I absolutely. It wouldn't. No you, you wouldn't, I mean, like for the same reason.

This is really bad. Yeah. Just you wouldn't

Malcolm Collins: eat roadkill.

Simone Collins: That was what I was gonna say. And I don't know why you knew that.

Malcolm Collins: No, I've thought about it when I drive by, I'm like, that looks like a fresh kill. But then I'm like, ah, but it's a local deer and you know, they've got all sorts of diseases.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like if it was running into the road, like, I don't know.

And like, I don't know what it's, what it's been going through recently, like did it die because it's sick?

Malcolm Collins: No, but here's the thing. This is how, you know, you're from, we talk about being from like the greater Appalachian subgroup and having very different impulses than I think your average American.

And that our impulse, despite the fact that neither of us have ever brought roadkill back in eating it, is when we see roadkill, we're like, huh, I wonder if it's fresh enough. That, that is literally just like a, I mean, our defense,

Simone Collins: as long as it doesn't look mangled, I mean, obviously like if the meat's all.

Smushed and there's like a glass in it that is

Malcolm Collins: No, but it is, it is. Simone. I don't know if our audience, our audience can be like, no, all humans have this impulse or no, this is you. Crazy savage, backwards people. You are the only ones who, when you see roadkill are evaluating it as a source of meat.

Simone Collins: Well people really carefully about like, is this a grass fed cow or not?

You know, is this a free range chicken or not? Like, I think really carefully even just like eating their eggs. Like what am I feeding our chickens? What do they eat? This, this

Malcolm Collins: reminds me of the RFK story that made me like him so much about the bear, the bear

story.

The, the bear had accidentally been hit and killed on the road.

And so he put it in his trunk, took it to, to Central Park and put it in the bike lanes that had just been laid down and everybody, this was only because

Simone Collins: he realized that he couldn't get it in home in time to freeze it and, and eat its meat before he had to fly somewhere, but

Malcolm Collins: he was planning to freeze it and eat its meat

Simone Collins: first.

Yeah. And then he was like, well, crap, now I have a bear and I have to dump it. And there had been a lot of bike accidents in Central Park recently. So he is like, you know what, I'm just gonna find a bike and make it look like this is the kind of accident. It'll be really funny. It didn't come out until what, like 30 years later.

So it kind of worked. The, the a a leading politician had staged

Malcolm Collins: the bear being hit by a bike.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I guess that's, I mean, that's the only place where I guess it kind of goes wrong. 'cause you know, he's making bicyclists look bad and also dumping a dead body. Of a bear, but

Malcolm Collins: I have literally no problem with making bicycles look bad.

Simone Collins: I have respect for, you know, seeing a sad, it, it's really sad that a baby bear got hit by a car. Yeah. But like, trying to make the most of it, you know, like bear meat is interesting. I know a lot of people go through a lot of work to to get bear meat. The, I used to get detained all the time at airports because I was flagged as like a bad person, I guess, when I was a teen.

And so I was always detained in like those waiting rooms where they search absolutely everything in your bag. Why were you

Malcolm Collins: flagged as a bad person? What'd you do?

Simone Collins: I, they have these like anime themed lighters when I was in Tokyo on one trip with my dad, and I've just bought a ton of them. And just taped them all together in my suitcase, which was probably not a good

Malcolm Collins: idea.

Simone Collins: So after that I was always detained and this one time I was detained for like two hours next to these bear hunters with like just a ton of guns and this giant freezer bag. And I'm like, that is dedication. You know, like to, to go through detention. On, I think they were flying to either Alaska or Canada and like, wait that long and carry all of that gear.

It just looked like such a hassle. I, I, I gained a lot of respect for people who want to kill and eat bears in that, in that one day as I did penance for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Anime, lighters are not a crime, but there you go.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, well I love you to ask Simone. Did you grow up hearing about people eating roadkill or is this just a me thing?

Simone Collins: I don't think any of my family friends ate road kill and we lived in a very like dense suburban area, so there wasn't that much roadkill, like any roadkill was someone's pet, so you wouldn't really think about eating it. You feel really bad.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway. Love you to

Simone Collins: death, Simone. I love you too.

Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Good. So you like that last episode we just did,

Simone Collins: like is not the word learned from

Malcolm Collins: Yes. We just did the episode on Joe Money. Google that one. If you guys want to be scarred for a day, I am very scar scarred. We, we this one's gonna come out before the other one 'cause we're gonna rush to get this one out.

But so you guys can look forward to how a complete monster started the, the concept of gender ideology and sexual orientation. And, and I'm not, I'm not like nobody would disagree that this person was a complete monster, right, Simone? After, after doing Yeah. When, yeah, when

Simone Collins: you first said complete monster.

I'm like, ah, exaggeration. I'm sure no monster doesn't do justice to the term super not okay. All levels of ruffled, but I. We'll just move on to this. There are other people. It's an

Malcolm Collins: equally bummy topic. It's what, it's a video we have to do, you know, so.

Speaker: Neck sooner.

Speaker 2: It's okay. Next one. Maybe

Speaker: I'll get it. Get, okay. I'll get it and then I'll play.

Speaker 3: Alright.

Speaker 4: The are. Dirt. The invisible bugs are still in there, right?

Speaker 2: Pretty sure. Yeah. The bugs live on the leaves.

What do you think? Torsten?

Speaker: Mommy,

Speaker 2: did you see birds back there?

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