#235: How To Heal Psychological Wounds And Become Your Future Self Using MUSIC… w/ Susan Drumm
This episode will forever stand out as a game changer for me personally.
I had a major breakthrough in this episode AND I continued to implement after the recording and it’s been INCREDIBLE.
So here’s what happened, and why I’m super excited about this episode:
I’m CONSTANTLY learning new ways to…
- Increase my awareness of unconscious thought patterns (both negative and positive)
- Diminish the power of negative thought patterns
- Amplify the power of positive thought patterns
So when I found out that Susan Drumm was leveraging MUSIC to do this, I was immediately intrigued.
Susan has a book called, The Leader's Playlist: Unleash the Power of Music and Neuroscience to Transform Your Leadership and Your Life
Here’s a teaser of the power of this:
During the episode, Susan helped me uncover that I have a belief that was driving my behavior:
“If I’m not growing, I’m dying.”
This belief HAS served me in many ways, but there is a point where it becomes unhealthy.
In my case, it’s caused me to sit and dream about the future and things I want to learn and do… when I should be sitting and enjoying a simple and present moment with my family.
So in Susan’s model, she has you find a SONG that represents this thinking pattern.
For me, I realized the perfect song that represents this constant drive for growth is the song, “I Don’t Wanna Stop” by Ozzie Osbourne
Now, whenever I catch myself unable to sit still and enjoy a present moment, I can immediately recognize that I’m running the “I don’t wanna stop” track in my mind.
Now here’s where it gets FUN:
Once you catch yourself “listening to the old playlist”, you can shift to listening to a NEW “playlist” that you want to embody.
For me, I was looking for a song that encapsulated the feelings of:
- Being a visionary with big ideas to change the world
- Never wanting to stop creating, building, and making an impact… but doing it from a sense of wholeness and completeness instead of lack
- Being completely present and there with my family during every moment, even if it’s not ultra stimulating like my brain is wired to crave
The perfect song that fit this?
It didn’t exist.
So thank god we live in 2025, I actually used AI to create the song myself.
I created it, listened to it, and promptly started crying because it hit me so deeply.
This song has become the “soundtrack” to this new phase of my life… and a constant reminder to step into creating from wholeness WHILE being completely present with my family.
I had HEARD AI music before, but never quite realized where it fit into my life until this moment.
I’m now in the process of creating entire albums that encapsulate my desired future states, core beliefs, and perspectives on the world.
Stay tuned, because I’ll be sharing a LOT more about this, and releasing music as an artist on Spotify very shortly ;)
Anywho…
This is a FUN episode, and I really hope you implement and take it as seriously as I did, because it was a powerful one for me personally!
Show Notes Generated With The Help of AI!
00:00 - Introduction to Beyond Curious and today's guest, Susan Drumm
Brandon Fong welcomes listeners to a paradigm-shifting episode featuring Susan Drumm, a leadership coach, Harvard Law grad, and best-selling author. He teases three powerful topics: Susan’s leap from Harvard Law to acting, using music to transform belief systems, and how the Enneagram can reveal hidden leadership blind spots.
01:15 - Three big takeaways and a shoutout
Brandon outlines what to look out for in the episode and thanks Jennifer Hill for introducing him to Susan. He then dives into Susan’s impressive bio, highlighting her work with CEOs, Fortune 100 execs, and her unique background spanning law, business, and acting.
04:06 - Brandon reveals his limiting belief: “If I’m not growing, I’m dying”
Brandon shares a personal breakthrough from working with Susan—realizing that a belief that once served him now hinders his ability to be present with his family. This introspection leads to an AI-powered solution: composing music to shift his inner narrative.
07:16 - The “Type 7” energy explosion: Brandon and Susan connect on the Enneagram
Both being Enneagram Type 7s, Susan and Brandon share their enthusiasm and vision-driven energy. Susan identifies Brandon’s visionary spark and they set the stage to dive deeper into her unconventional journey.
08:02 - From Harvard Law to London’s drama school: A career pivot guided by intuition
Susan recounts how she left a traditional law career—even with $100K in student debt—to pursue a degree in acting. Her leap was based on passion and intuition, eventually leading to her career in leadership development.
11:28 - Pattern recognition as a hidden superpower
Susan explains how her legal and consulting backgrounds revealed her innate gift: identifying subtle patterns. This skill became the foundation for her coaching work, helping leaders shift deep-seated mindsets.
16:13 - Why good patterns stop working and what to do about it
Susan emphasizes how the accelerating pace of change renders old success strategies obsolete. Leaders must constantly reexamine their behavior and adapt or risk stagnation.
18:01 - Shoutout to Steven Ringelstein, a pivotal mentor
Susan credits Steven with helping her shift into confident, authentic leadership by balancing masculine and feminine energies. He helped her find her voice and embrace warmth with strength.
21:34 - Music as a neurochemical pattern disruptor
Susan dives into the science: music activates all four regions of the brain and acts like “fertilizer” for creating new neural pathways. This makes it a powerful tool for transformation.
25:01 - Childhood wounds and their hidden influence on leadership
Susan shares how childhood experiences wire belief systems that become leadership blind spots. Her “old playlist” model helps uncover these unconscious beliefs so they can be rewritten.
32:32 - A real client story: Brandon’s old playlist of “I’m not enough”
Susan illustrates how one client’s fear of being disliked hindered his effectiveness as a leader. By identifying his old playlist and creating a new one, he learned to lead with confidence and clarity.
36:17 - Example playlist transformation: From “Adele’s Hello” to “Kind and Generous”
A CMO client’s old belief—“I’m excluded”—was reinforced by Adele’s song Hello. Her new playlist, anchored by Natalie Merchant’s Kind and Generous, helped her shift into appreciation and inclusion.
40:14 - Building your own 2025 playlist for ease and vitality
Susan walks through her personal process of identifying yearly intentions and building a playlist around emotions like ease. She notes the importance of updating playlists as your energy evolves.
44:09 - Enneagram 101: Why Type 7s crave stimulation and avoid pain
Susan unpacks the Enneagram as a system for growth. She explains the strengths and challenges of Type 7s, including their avoidance of painful emotions and drive for stimulation.
48:15 - Brandon’s real-time revelation: Needing stimulation blocks presence
Brandon shares a vulnerable story about how overstimulation hindered his ability to enjoy a quiet night with his family. He recognizes a pattern of avoiding stillness and the cost it brings.
52:45 - The fear underneath: “If I’m not growing, I’m dying”
Susan guides Brandon to uncover a core belief driving his restlessness. They explore how the desire for constant growth masks a deeper insecurity of not being enough.
59:23 - Brandon’s breakthrough: Naming his old and new playlist
After introspection, Brandon identifies I Don’t Wanna Stop by Ozzy Osbourne as his “old playlist” song. He commits to creating a new playlist anchored in the belief, “I am whole and complete as is.”
01:04:27 - Music as a mirror and catalyst for growth
Susan highlights the importance of picking an “anchor song” that reflects your desired identity. Brandon selects his new mantra and begins the shift from external validation to internal wholeness.
Links & Resources:
- Susan Drumm’s book: The Leader’s Playlist: Unleash the Power of Music and Neuroscience to Transform Your Leadership and Your Life
- Susan Drumm’s website & coaching firm: Meritage Leadership
- Susan’s podcast: The Enlightened Executive
- Susan's YouTube channel: Susan Drumm on YouTube