Design genius Jony Ive was Steve Jobs’ chief collaborator at Apple. But Ive didn’t run Apple after Jobs’ death: That role went to Tim Cook, the supply chain guy. Now Apple is a company that’s increasingly interested in making money from services and is less dependent on jaw-dropping devices. And Ive doesn’t work at Apple anymore.

Journalist Tripp Mickle, who covered Apple for years at the Wall Street Journal, has a new book about the fraught relationship between Cook and Ive, and Apple’s transformation after Jobs, and this is one where the title gives away a lot: “After Steve: How Apple Became a Trillion-Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul.” He talks to Recode’s Peter Kafka about all of that — as well as a curious and telling anecdote about a soap dispenser.

Featuring: Tripp Mickle (@trippmickle), New York Times reporter and author of After Steve

Host: Peter Kafka (@pkafka), Senior Editor at Recode

More to explore: Subscribe for free to Recode Media, Peter Kafka, one of the media industry's most acclaimed reporters, talks to business titans, journalists, comedians, and more to get their take on today's media landscape.

About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us.

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