This week, CIO of Bitwise Matt Hougan joins the show to discuss fading the power of the four-year cycle, the accelerating wave of institutional adoption, and whether Strategy selling its Bitcoin is a real risk. Matt also weighs in on the Santi-Haseeb L1 debate, balancing token value with investment, and what he thinks drives the next phase of growth. Enjoy! — Follow Matt: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan  CIO Memo: https://bit.ly/4pK4gmC  Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz  Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel  Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod  — Zcash is encrypted Bitcoin. Your digital bill of rights securing your freedom for the 21st century. Buy, store and spend ZEC privately using Zashi Wallet download today: https://electriccoin.co/zashi/ — Katana is a DeFi-first chain built for deep liquidity and high yield. No empty emissions, just real yield and sequencer fees routed back to DeFi users.Pre-deposit now: Earn high APRs with Turtle Club [https://app.turtle.club/campaigns/katana] or spin the wheel with Katana Krates https://app.katana.network/krates—This Empire episode is brought to you by VanEck.Learn more about the VanEck Onchain Economy ETF (NODE): http://vaneck.com/EmpireNODEAn investment in the Fund involves substantial risk and is not suitable for all investors. You may lose your entire principal investment. The Fund may invest nearly all of its net assets in Digital Transformation Companies and/or Digital Asset Instruments but does not invest in digital assets or commodities directly.Digital Asset Instruments may involve risks tied to investing in digital asset exchange-traded products (“ETPs”), including the historically extreme volatility of digital asset and cryptocurrency markets and reduced regulation and investor protections, as these ETPs are not registered investment companies under the Investment Company Act of 1940 (“1940 Act”) or commodity pools under the Commodity Exchange Act (“CEA”).Investing involves substantial risk and high volatility, including possible loss of principal. Visit vaneck.com to review the prospectus, including the Fund’s investment objective, risks, and fees, before investing.© Van Eck Securities Corporation, Distributor, a wholly owned subsidiary of Van Eck Associates Corporation.—GEODNET is the world’s largest RTK network, delivering real-time, centimeter-level precision for drones, robots, farmers, and first responders. Recognized by the U.S. Congress, this blockchain-powered network supports mission-critical applications across a wide range of industries.Discover how GEODNET is changing the world: [https://geodnet.com]—Uniswap’s Trading API offers plug-and-play access to deep onchain and off-chain liquidity, delivering enterprise-grade crypto trading without the complexity - from one of the most trusted teams in DeFi.Click to get started with seamless, scalable access to Uniswap’s powerful onchain trading infrastructure.https://bit.ly/4pt0Fd0 — Timestamps 00:00 Intro 03:28 2026 vs The Four Year Cycle 05:06 Bitcoin Covered Call Strategy 07:44 The Case Against The 4-Year Cycle 11:14 Ads (Zcash, Katana) 12:31 Will Strategy Sell Its Bitcoin? 16:36 Inside The Institutional Mind 24:24 How Advisors Think About Crypto 27:40 The Best Stories In Crypto 30:23 Ads (Zcash, Katana) 31:39 Risk-First Investing 33:01 L1 Debate: Haseeb vs Santi 36:19 Balancing Token Value & Investment 40:16 Ads (VanEck, Uniswap) 41:58 Zcash & The Privacy Narrative 44:29 The Future Of ICOs 46:55 The Token-Equity Convergence 48:19 Final Thoughts — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.