In this revealing episode, we dive deep into the controversial ties between Hope Not Hate, the British government, and media organizations. We uncover shocking evidence of government funding and intelligence collaboration aimed at suppressing independent voices. Through meticulous investigation, we explore the legal and ethical boundaries crossed by various parties, from undercover journalism to extremist ideologies. The discussion spans topics such as funding misuse, political affiliations, and the impact of modern cultural narratives, providing anecdotes and testimonies from those directly affected. Join us as we navigate the intricate web of political, media, and intelligence connections, and challenge mainstream narratives to reveal the hidden agendas at play.

00:00 Introduction and Initial Revelations

01:00 Deep State and Mind Virus

02:19 Hope Not Hate: Analyzing the Organization

04:02 Evidence and Accusations

08:41 Government Connections and Funding

15:24 Undercover Operations and Personal Accounts

22:59 Media Manipulation and Public Perception

31:10 Concluding Thoughts and Future Implications

55:55 Cultural Preservation and Misunderstandings

56:17 Humor and Left-Wing Media Critique

57:14 Infiltration Tactics and Biographical Questions

58:12 Racism and Cultural Heritage

58:53 Pronatalist Movement and Misconceptions

01:00:22 Undercover Operations and Dehumanization

01:10:04 Scientific Racism and Media Influence

01:11:35 Video Game Controversies and Historical Revisionism

01:30:09 Far-Right Misconceptions and Radicalization

01:35:09 Concluding Thoughts and Personal Reflections

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. We recently did an episode on an undercover reporter who was investigating us for at least a year.

Now, it appears we were wrong, and that this, who we thought was an undercover reporter, might have actually been a spy working for the British government.

 Other people have collected tons of evidence that suggests this already.

Malcolm Collins: But we basically collected the quote unquote final piece of evidence. Then the other people who have been collecting evidence on this organization for a long time. reviewed and it's like this basically seals the case that this is an organization used by British intelligence to try to put out a parallel narrative.

And so we did something that pissed off the deep state. Bad,

Speaker 3: What's it thinking, Colonel?

Speaker 4: It's afraid. It's [00:01:00] afraid!

Malcolm Collins: but it gets worse than that because what we're going to explore here is how the deep state was captured by the mind virus so much that taxpayer dollars could be used through authoritative fascist like, you know, government systems to track down everyday citizens fighting for citizens freedoms.

Fighting for humanity to continue to exist and attempt to F up their lives.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because a lot of the people that hope not hate have doxxed. Their biggest crime seems to just be not towing the narrative. Now, I wouldn't say that I, I, we, I, neither of us would endorse the views of everyone that hope not hate.

As an organization has outed or criticized. However, it does seem like a lot of the people they've outed are, their crime is not towing a leftist narrative.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah so we will, well, other people have noticed this as well.

They claim to be a group that's against anti [00:02:00] Semitism, and yet they have done Nothing on the left right now was the huge amounts of anti Semitism that we are seeing on the streets of London and from the mouths of MPs and yet nothing. So, you know, it's, it's, it's once anti Semitism was normalized on the left, we're like, Oh, we're going to throw that out.

That's not really one of those things we're fighting anymore. But I wanted to say in the, in the, in the words of one of our commenters on this, and I thought that they described this organization very well. And this is somebody from the UK who's had some experience with the organization.

Hope not hate appears to be viscerally hostile to anything or anybody that represents genuine human interaction, humor, and popular democratic pushback to the ruling oligarchy. They're probably funded, I'm guessing here, by global corporations and institutions. It's not, by the UK government. They say they're not, but we have receipts proving they are.

Who dislike agency of citizens and genuine popular democracy because it gets in their way. It seems like their funder's [00:03:00] aim is to maintain the status quo in which all mainstream political parties are captured, controlled, and flat out refuse to represent ordinary voters.

Incidentally, the idiot hope not hate Radical activists probably think you two are monsters, but they're shadowy and cynical funders Won't believe their propaganda vote simone. So basically Bad, I I actually don't have any beef with them as human beings I I think that the guy was probably the guy we

Simone Collins: met with seemed like a nice person He's probably

Malcolm Collins: a well meaning guy who just got wiped, wrapped up in this ideology and doesn't realize that he's fighting for the fascists and the oligarchs now.

Yeah, I think

Simone Collins: that's how it is with many people on the left, is they're pro social, well meaning people. Many of them want the best for humanity, want human flourishing. This undercover reporter still came across as a nice, intelligent guy with thoughtful comments that.

was, you know, he came across as a little racist, which [00:04:00] made us somewhat uncomfortable, but

. What it does appear is there is concrete evidence that this is an arm of the deep state. The deep state is scared of our growing movement, the new right, the pronatalists and then, if Trump wins, Hopefully we can begin to dismantle the Deep State.

Speaker 8: Will thE Brain Bug reveal? Federal scientists are working around the clock to probe its secrets. Once we understand the bug, we will defeat it.

Simone Collins: I, I want to emphasize here though how meaningful this is, because I think we used to joke about the Deep State. Possibly going after people for having the wrong narrative or for not supporting them.

But I never really believed that could possibly be true. It seems that now there's some evidence that this actually is happening. There's overwhelming evidence, but

Malcolm Collins: that's actually not the evidence we're going to go into a ton today because there's actually more evidence about this than, than we're going to go into here, but let's just [00:05:00] start with a writeup.

So this is from raw egg nationalists where he's going through his own research on this., because he was one of the people who was doxxed by Hope Not Hate And I'm, I'm going to be heavily Summarizing this, . I spoke to a number of people who said there must be an intelligence connection at work.

This included people with backgrounds in the military and intelligence themselves. When I told them what happened at the farm shop, they were convinced. No way that was a coincidence. Quote unquote, somebody, meaning intelligence, Must have been, quote unquote, shopping around, information about me, perhaps even just my name, in the weeks before I was doxxed.

If that was the case, Catherine Long probably already knew who I was when she emailed the farm shop. She was trying to get a confirmation, a non intelligent source, for a parallel construction. So, essentially the organization that doxed him did through by asking stores that he regularly shopped at, which implies that they probably already knew who he was.

And they needed a way to show that they knew who he was. That wasn't a very obvious intelligence informant. [00:06:00] I looked Well, or,

Simone Collins: or I should say information obtained through illegal matters. So, Ragh Nationalist pointed out

Malcolm Collins: that It wouldn't be illegal, obviously, in his case. But we found proof that it is illegal and that's what we'll get into later in this.

That's the new evidence we found, is that they are using mechanisms that are only not illegal if they are working directly as spies for the British government. So either somebody at Hope Not Hate is getting arrested, or they work directly for the British government.

Simone Collins: And given that I think Hope Not Hate is not idiotic, I mean they seem to be pretty organized, pretty careful, and it would be insane for them to send incriminating information to us, people that they knew.

would be canceled by them and might have a bone to pick with them. It just seems implausible to me that you would do that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I looked a little deeper into Catherine Long by which I mean, I went on her LinkedIn profile, Ivy league, a grad check seven months [00:07:00] internship in the state department, check USA ID posting in Tajikistan check.

A specialist in Central Asian languages, fluent in Farsi and Targic. Check. Oh yeah, she's obviously a spy. Sorry for people who don't know, spy is heavily recruited to people fluent in those languages for intercepting terrorist networks and communications. So that's all the things you would have been looking for in spy recruitment.

I got no further with her than that, but it was enough to convince me that she is, at the very least, a suitable candidate for an intelligence contact in media. Put another way, she glows. My friends agree. It's been known for decades that Western intelligence services, including the CIA, have intimate links to newspapers, magazines, and the media, planting stories and guiding public opinion, and this continues to present day despite high profile disavowals like the Church Commission report published in 1976.

So for people who don't know, we do now know that There was a period in American history, recent American history, where a lot of quote unquote conspiracy theorists said there's CIA funded individuals at every [00:08:00] major newspaper. And now we know that during that period, that was true. The CIA had a program where they would fund people working at major newspapers to put out their particular narrative.

Which at the time was a fascist right leaning narrative, and now it's a fascist left leaning narrative. Because, well, the leftists have, back then, like the I guess you could say like broader Judeo Christian moral systems, which is what the right was at that time, had more dominance within mainstream society.

So they aligned with that. And right now the urban monoculture, which is the leftist has more dominance in modern society. And so they align with fascistly imposing that. And well, literally jailing anyone who disagrees with it and gains too many followers.

Simone Collins: It's scary.

Malcolm Collins: Then there's Hope Not Hate.

Again, a little digging goes a long way. The group is ostensibly a charity, and therefore a non governmental organization, but its links to the British government are no secret. Hope Not Hate received significant amounts of money from the public purse. From 2019 to 2020, for example, the Hope Not Hate Charitable Trust received 141, 000 of British taxpayer money.

The [00:09:00] Home Office's counter extremism unit has paid tens of thousands of pounds to hope not hate in recent years. And in return, the home office and other government departments have received detailed briefings on quote unquote extremism, particularly in the digital sphere. In the trustees report for 2019, it states in that year, hope not hate quote, briefed multiple departments in the home office on emerging trends in UK hate. As well as briefing the Home Affairs Committee and presented a key note at a home office conference on online hate in Derby. Okay, this

Simone Collins: really, this explains a lot to me because when I looked at their Wikipedia page, it clearly states that they don't receive donations from the government because they are a, they are a, A nonprofit organization and they can't do that.

But if they're making program revenue from the government, that's different. So I guess that's how this works.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And I would like one of our followers to edit their Wikipedia page to make this clear, to say they don't get money from government, but there is, it's in their own tax filings that they do.[00:10:00]

Simone Collins: They're not receiving donations, but they are getting paid for their services. lot. They're getting paid a

Malcolm Collins: lot. And I'm going to put like receipts on the screen here right now. So you can see just how much money is going to them for these sorts of activities. And who is paying it, which is the anti extremism office.

And a great report on this was done by Charlotte Gill. And I'll put her, her tweet on this here. But what's really horrifying about this is that this was done like money was being funneled to hope not hate by the counter extremism organization in the UK in the same year that, and I will quote her tweet here, Kariya Sadal is a Libyan asylum seeker who served a 17 month sentence for Afrian assault, reduced on appeal for beating an emergency worker, was reported to prevent it.

Four times told prison staff. He was part of the Islamic state and wanted to quote unquote blow up. Britain Was the [00:11:00] subject of quote dozens of intelligence reports which showed a pattern of fighting threats to staff Self harming and suspected drug use along with references to extremism in quote But the authorities didn't report him because olivia was deemed quote, unquote unsafe.

So three men were murdered instead two weeks after his release from prison. They, the extremism office did nothing about this. And when we talk about the urban monoculture, who were these three men? They were three gay men. Do you know what Stonewall had to say about this? Just so you understand if you're like, well, I'm gay.

So I need the urban monoculture to protect me. They don't give a. about you. The only people who will still protect you are the conservatives. And that is it. And that is why gay men are on mass. As we've said by various polls, it's either 45 percent or 33 percent of gay men in the U. S. voted for Trump in the last election cycle.

More will this election cycle. It's going to be a solidly red voting block in the near future. Wow. Very obvious. Because this is what the left will do. Organizations like Stonewall said, our thoughts are with those affected by the attack [00:12:00] in Reading on Saturday. It's heartbreaking to hear two of the victims were LGBT, but we can't let Islamophobic, racist and xenophobic rhetoric be used to divide us.

We must stand together to make progress. Meanwhile, you know, one man, gay man responded here. While charities such as Stonewall told us we must not be quote unquote Islamophobic while their bodies are still warm, it's all too incredibly awkward if a Muslim murders three gay men, eh? Let's move along now, nothing to see.

Stonewall couldn't even say gay men, they had to say LGBT.

Simone Collins: Oh, Lord.

Malcolm Collins: That is, it is, it is horrifying how much they are being thrown under the bus.

Simone Collins: That is, that is some major flinging there.

Malcolm Collins: Now, now, remember, they're supposed to be reducing extremism in the UK. They are briefing, UK organizations on who the extremist groups are probably proofing them that we're an extremist group now, right?

You want those

Simone Collins: pronatalists?

Malcolm Collins: You want to know what their founders? We'll we'll we'll do when [00:13:00] people who work with them So a a researcher at hope not hate an anti extremist left wing pressure group has been accused of pushing far left Extremism after a video emerged of him endorsing the communist red army the head of the intelligence group.

So this is the head of the intelligence group for them stood behind a Soviet flag at an event in London in 2013 and said, quote, comrades, brothers and sisters, hope, not hate. co. uk. You are our red army. Oh,

Simone Collins: well,

Malcolm Collins: Kowalicz, a member of the Polish parliament and former government minister, told GB News, quote, Praising the Red Army is the most left wing extremist thing to do, especially after knowing what tortures they did to the peoples of the Siberian gulags, to Poles in Kyiv, killing 22, 000 of Polish officers, and during the Stalist anti Semitic purges, end quote.

And all of this is obviously true, and here I note, you know, talk about them being commies, them making fun of us for being pronatals and saying, look [00:14:00] at how fascist this is, the Nazis were pronatalists. We're not mentioning that the Soviets, the Red Army was more pronatalist than the Nazis ever were, right?

You know, but they're just straight up and, and, and we denounce both of these groups, the Nazis, the Soviets, both equally evil, both massively anti semitic, both killed millions of people, millions of innocent. People and people who identify with either of these organizations, whether they be modern neo Nazis or modern communists, should be viewed in the same light as supporting true evil and as active activists against the democratic Democratic.

Three countries of the world, like the UK or the United States. So they are literally being coached by an extremist organization.

Simone Collins: Good

Malcolm Collins: lord. They didn't fire this guy, by the way.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. Wow. I mean, the one thing, I have one positive note about them so far, which is that they follow our philosophy with non profits, which is that [00:15:00] you should be making The majority of your money over time, and in fact, most of your income from the work you do, and they're making money from selling to the US government, not donations.

And I appreciate

Malcolm Collins: government Simone. It is functionally a donation. It's just done in a way that makes it legal. They're basically just stealing from taxpayers. Like it's, and it gets worse. Hold on. It gets worse. How can this get

worse?

So we haven't even gotten to the spy stuff yet or anything like that, but.

Research from Taxpayers Alliance has revealed that organizations that lobby for changes in public policies within the UK have received around 50, 000 in public money since 2018, including 19 million during the COVID pandemic. Oh, no, wait, not 49. Sorry. I said 50, 000. What I meant was 50 million, 50 million in public, 50 million pounds, by the way, 19 million during the COVID pandemic and nearly 7.

7 million was given to organizations actively fighting against the [00:16:00] government scheme to resettle migrants in Rwanda. So the government, the conservative government was trying to do something to help the people of Britain and the immigrants who had come to their country, fleeing dangerous countries, get them back to safe countries like this guy from Libya.

And they were like, Oh, it's too dangerous to send them back there. So they're like, we'll send them to Rwanda. No, taxpayer money was being used to fight this in the public mind, including Organizations that were doing this that were getting government money, migrant help, Stonewall, refugee action, hope not hate, and InstaLaw.

InstaLaw recently issued judicial review proceedings challenging the legality of the immigration deal while the other organizations signed an open letter criticizing it. The Department of Health and Social Care gave the most of any white wall department over 30 million dollars to five organizations with the Department of.

with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media, and Sport gave to influential campaign groups, including Age UK, Gender Intelligence, Migrants Organize, and Stonewall.

And then these are groups

that [00:17:00] just support Progressive politicians running for office. That's one of the key things they do. And here's an article I'm gonna put on screen here.

A new labor MP is also the director of hope, not hate. So literally the people in office are deciding where this money is going. Wow. Organization that regularly campaigns against conservative elected candidates and is partially funded by the taxpayer and literally doesn't serve its message. Like the first time they go after one of these anti Semites on the left, I will rescind all of this.

But let's see them even for a second infiltrate. They don't even need to infiltrate these lefty groups because they're in them. They're going to their parties. They know they're all rabid anti Semites. As anyone who has gone to any of their events knows hold on. It continues to get worse. So, since Gerardo revealed Hope Not Hate's close labor links, including campaigning specifically against Susan Hall during the mayoral election, it has embedded itself further into the government.

Two of the six trustees of its charitable foundation have now made their way into parliament as labor MPs. Two trustees [00:18:00] department. What it doesn't in there, government whip and Tulley is both a director and member of its board of trustees covering all bases labor mp Sarah Owen is a vice chairman of the group's parliamentary group.

Oh wow. Made up of only labor mps, by the way, no conservatives on this. Another of the campaign organizations directors also happens to be a prominent labor NP and TUC communications director in Tenia brantz, chairman of the trustee of the board, is newly elected labor MP, Gridan Singer Joseph. And,

this is,

By the way, I'm reading from order.

order, order slash order. com more here. The new Hope Not Hate lead organizer admits that he is also a labor campaigner. And it's pushing to get a, quote, good solid majority, end quote, for labor candidate Paul Waugh in Rottenchild via the Hope Not Hate campaign. The organizer says that the group is targeting anyone likely to vote against George Galilei to convince him to vote for anyone else.

We're just trying to get anyone [00:19:00] who's not likely to vote for Galloway. The charity which received taxpayer funds previously getting cash from taxpayer supported Paul Himmelin Foundation, PHF, and City Hall has deep wide links to the Labour Party.

And then here Hope Not Hate's ground campaign also goes into some detail about the MRP polling, which they bought for the constituency, which allows them to accurately target voters who can mobilize. They say it's, quote, not very cheap, end quote, the last time Guaido checked. MRP constituency polling cost around 20, 000. Even if they got a discount, it's unlikely they dragged the cost below the 700 spending limit, in which case Hope Not Hate would be falling foul of clear Electoral Commission rules. So they're just blatantly breaking the law. This has been found out, this has been made public, and no one is doing anything about this or nothing has gone through.

This would make sense if they are [00:20:00] actually partially an arm of the British government. intelligence agency, which will get to more evidence that this is the case in just a second. And I should say an ideologically captured arm attempting to bring down the British state. They are, they are, well, not really bring it down, but support the oligarchical network that is antithetical to British and American democracy.

They are very much what the Kingsmen are. In that, in every Kingsman episode movie, I always say, you know, They're always fighting against somebody who has some like radical idea about how the world might be improved to try to maintain the status quo. Yeah, status quo. Good. I, for example, actually agree with one of the villains of the second one, the president of the United States.

Simone Collins: Wait, what was the president of the United States doing in the second one?

Malcolm Collins: So there was anyone who took it. Right. Right. And he wanted to just let them die so that he could finally end the drug problem in the United States. And it happened. I love the way that they signaled that he was actually evil, [00:21:00] because at first it was like only drug addicts are dying from this.

And then you learned, oh no, one of his staffers was also a cocaine addict. Because she wanted to keep up with her workload. And when a white middle class woman is on the list, you know that it could affect you, urban monoculture.

So you're not supposed to There was even a princess

Simone Collins: on the list. Remember his girlfriend?

So God forbid.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but his girlfriend was a junkie. Like, I think if society had that, like, everybody who did drugs just, like, died one day, going forwards, more lives would be saved and more general suffering would be saved.

Simone Collins: I think you don't realize how pervasive drug use is.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, no, we, we, we as a society, and keep in mind it didn't affect people who were taking like nootropics or like other drugs meant to like control their daily behavior.

This was like people on cocaine or other types of recreational drugs. Yeah, it

Simone Collins: was, [00:22:00] no, it was just one specific drug that they were, that that woman's company was marketing and distributing. So it was just one drug, like a party drug, I think.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, like a party drug. It was, it was not a drug that anyone really had a good excuse to be using for productivity improvement or anything like that.

And, but, but what I mean is you wouldn't just have a disruption of the existing global drug supply network. You would also have nobody doing drugs in the future because everyone would have, like, bigger than COVID would have grown up through this period where it's like, Oh, this is why we actually have to take drugs super seriously.

And I think if you go to our video on the drug crisis that we're going through right now, I can't even name it because it got the video demonetized. You will learn just how bad things are and just the level of suffering that something big needs to be done about this. All right, so to continue now we're gonna go into the actual spy stuff.

Woo.

The links [00:23:00] appear to go far beyond government funding for dull PowerPoint presentations at dull conferences. Jason Za Georgii has a alleged hope Not Hate is a direct front for British Intelligence at home and abroad. IE four M 15 and M 16 in 2017. Georgie was caught in an undercover sting in a New York bar by a Swedish Antifa activist working for Hope Not Hate.

Georgie lost his teaching job at the New Jersey Institute of Technology and subsequently sued the university. He maintains that the sting was on behalf of British intelligence after he left the alt right corporation. In the immediate fallout of Charlottesville. This is where things start to get murky and a bit confusing.

You can listen to Jirajiji explain his allegations at length in this video. And I guess I'll put a picture of it on screen so you can Google it. But there's other evidence that points in the same direction. First of all, hope not hate is a offshoot of searchlight and a quote unquote anti fascist organization.

I love, you know, you should watch our Antifa video. All these organizations are just very clearly [00:24:00] fascist organizations now. Antifa literally calls, it's like, people who go disrupt protests, black shirts, which is also what the original fascist Moush Tlalini called their people who went and disrupted protests.

Their goals are exactly the same as fascist watch are because people, when they're, they're like modern Democrats, aren't fascists. They're kind of different. Watch our Modern Democrats Are Fascists video. Seriously, seriously, seriously watch it if you haven't watched it yet. They are not like fascists.

They are literally a mirror of fascist ideology at the height of fascism. It has just been occluded to you what that ideology actually was, and they've changed which race is at the top. That's it. Which race is at the bottom is still the same. I'll tell you that much. The Jews are not friends to these groups.

Let's continue here. So, from the left wing, Of its ties to the government and intelligence services, including British and French intelligence, but here also, they say they have some Assad intelligence. Working with Searchlight. So this is one place where the Jews accidentally helped these people before realizing that they were going to turn against them and start calling for their extinction.

[00:25:00] As we see people regularly marching through the streets of London do today. We've seen this, right? You and I have seen this. Actually doing the, the what is it, river to the sea chant in the streets of London. So, whew. That was interesting.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that was weird.

Malcolm Collins: Bruce sees former labor MP and now a life peer in the house of lds.

Served as deputy director of Hope Not Hate from 2011 to 2015. Wiki Leaks revealed in 2009 while still a perspective parliamentary candidate. She was described in a confidential American cable as, which was strictly protected by the way, as quote. Code for a protected intelligent asset.

Simone Collins: Okay. So the, the, they're dealing with communications associated with hope, not hate in a way that they would deal with intelligence conversations.

Malcolm Collins: Well, people who are running the organization as as as coded as intelligent assets.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So, I mean, obviously she was an intelligence asset. That's that seems pretty clear to me. [00:26:00] You wouldn't use that code. Otherwise, strictly protect means that the individual is an intelligence asset. And running this organization.

What's funny about this possibility, hope not hate as a direct organ of the British government, is that the group is full of people who are committed to the violent overthrow of capitalism and would therefore count as quote unquote extremists by hope not hate's own definition and that of the British intelligence services and government.

Hope not hate's own quote, head of intelligence in quote, Matthew Collins was caught on film. And this is the thing about the red army that I mentioned earlier in the most recent state of hate report, it targeted Jacob Reese, Mog, John Redwood in Duncan Smith, Danny Kruger, and Miriam creates all conservative MPs and suggested that they were quote, unquote, radicalizing the conservative government through their quote, unquote, opposition to woke politics in quote.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Wow. That, that feels amazing. Extra egregious. I mean, I know you've just listed off a ton of egregious things, but the fact that there are labor [00:27:00] MPs directly associated with this organization, but that this organization is in turn. Attacking the reputation of conservative MPs and they're receiving money from the government.

This is just

Malcolm Collins: like For being in opposition to wokeism, but it gets worse than that. The other thing they attacked them for was, quote, a certain conception of free speech, end quote. Wait, basically they're saying they don't like that. They're promoting free speech. They, they also promote quote unquote, free speech, i.

e. anything. And if you've seen the wacky cases, and I'll add some in post here of people being arrested for like saying completely inoffensive things in the UK, I would

Simone Collins: be terrified to be on social media in the UK.

Malcolm Collins: We should be able to set the rules in the UK and you see mainstream, even progressives fighting against this was like cool.

You know, what's her name? J. K. Rowling fighting against that insane law that came out in Scotland that wanted to jail people for misgendering people. That is absolutely wild that they feel that they [00:28:00] have this level of cultural hegemony. And this is what they mean when they say a certain conception.

So that's what they think makes them a hate group. Conservative MPs. Necessity makes for strained bedfellows. A group infested with radical Marxists can just as assuredly, wittingly or unwittingly, carry out the bidding of the British government, or any government for that matter. The Black Panthers did a fine job of playing useful idiots for the FBI and CIA in the 1960s and the 1970s as part of Operation Chaos and COINTPRO.

But it's also possible to For the goals of each group to be in direct alignment with those official agencies. Left wingers want to make life hard for quote unquote fascists and quote unquote right wing extremists and so do western governments. So why wouldn't they work together? And it would , and all it would take is a little tip off now and then.

Now here's what I want to point out here. I don't even think that that's what's happening here? I think that this is even more conspiratorial. I think that individuals who are in the deep state, who are like, you know, state bureaucrats have these ideologies. [00:29:00] Like, obviously they do. They go to the same parties that these other people go to and they funnel cash their way.

I mean, obviously they're MPs on both sides, right? They're, they're, they're, they're literally the same group. This is literally the same social group. It has just ideologically captured the British intelligence agencies.

Wow.

And if people don't believe that intelligence agencies can be captured by wokeism, I'm gonna put some, like, U. S. Army and CIA recruitment stuff in here right now. So you can see how bad it's gotten even in our own country.

Speaker 13: When I was 17, I quoted Zora Neale Hurston's How It Feels to be Colored Me in my college application essay. The line that spoke to me stated simply, I am not tragically colored. There is no sorrow damned up in my soul nor lurking behind my eyes. I do not mind at all. At 17, I had no idea what life would bring, but Zora's sentiment articulated so beautifully how I felt as a daughter of immigrants [00:30:00] then and now.

Nothing about me was or is tragic. I am perfectly made. I can wax eloquent on complex legal issues in English, while also belting amores in Spanish. I can change a diaper with one hand and console a crying toddler with the other. I'm a woman of color. I am a mom. I millennial who's been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder.

I am intersectional, but my existence is not a box checking exercise. I I am a walking declaration, a woman whose inflection does not rise at the end of her sentences, suggesting that a question has been asked. I did not sneak into CIA. My employment was not and is not the result of a fluke or slip through the cracks. I used to struggle with imposter syndrome, but at 36, I refuse to internalize misguided patriarchal ideas of what a woman can or should be.

I am tired of [00:31:00] feeling like I'm supposed to apologize for For the space I occupied rather than intoxicate people with my effort, my brilliance. I am proud of me. Full stop.

Malcolm Collins: We, interestingly, like the hippies before, are fighting for freedom against a fascist force that's attempting to push a cultural hegemony and keep wars going.

You know, in, in, it's just horrifying. You did

Simone Collins: not just call us tippy.

Malcolm Collins: Well, hey, I just say that we are aligned with the fight that they had previously and I think that we've seen this actually was interesting when I was reading the piece about why the guy who ended up doing all the undercover stuff got into this.

He was like, he was surprised at some of his older, like, hippie friends. Crunchy friends were now beginning to align with the conservatives against the vaccine. And he's like, how does this happen? How are they radicalizing these people? It's like, they're not radicalizing. They just realized the teams have switched.

And now you guys are the ones who control the government. And well, I think

Simone Collins: that's the interesting thing is that people on the inside of this don't [00:32:00] realize the fascists don't realize that they themselves have been radicalized, which is interesting. I think there's this. Lack of understanding of what's going on, even from within the house.

But what is uniquely scary about this is that. I guess you and I are coming online to the fact that this is happening. Apparently this is happening, this has been happening for quite some time. And there's public knowledge of it, and nothing is being done. And how much worse are things going to get? I mean, how much more I mean, we, we, we always get coverage of

oh, sorry. Right. I can't. Oh, I forgot. The

Malcolm Collins: whole conversation here that I just had to delete because YouTube will immediately restrict the video. We have that conversation. So we're not going to have that conversation. But I, and that's also

Simone Collins: crazy. Why, why are we living over? Thought crime world now, where we can't say certain things.

That is Simone I'm, just going to

Malcolm Collins: continue reading and you can sit [00:33:00] there and see that you can't have the conversation you want to have. Thanks so, parallel construction one way or another was almost certainly a part in the doxing of Johnath Keman, AKA Lez, and we met him, right? Although the guardian made no mention of it, Jonathan was aware months before his identity was revealed, that a prominent conservative figure was how shall we say, a penant for intrigue was making a great show of asking his friends for him by name. The implication was that this renowned schemer would soon release Jonathan's name as part of one of his trademark I am a concerned centrist articles that he writes for his online magazine.

And he wanted Jonathan to know this and be afraid. The Grave Amen, parenthetically, was an article Jonathan wrote as Lomez for the Catholic journal First Things. Just as Bill Kristol was outraged that the Claremont Institute had stooped to publish an anonymous raw egg, eating eccentricist 30 times and counting, Bill, so [00:34:00] our concerned centrists simply couldn't believe that a renowned theology journal would publish an anonymously pinned article.

And not just that, an anonymously pinned article About a concept the longhouse taken for bronze age perverts scandalous book bronze age mindset This fervent pants wetter was only dissuaded when an editor at first things guaranteed that jonathan would have a right of reply And so it appears he decided to pass on jonathan's details to someone who could do the dirty work for him instead jason wilson I don't know what all that is about.

That is clearly inside baseball but I will say that it is interesting here that like Bronze Age pervert is not that far right. I know people like paint him as far right because he goes against the urban monoculture, but his actual beliefs seem fairly centrist to me, just sort of unique, just sort of against the grain.

Which is pretty wild that they would be attacked for that. I'd also note here, and this is something we'll do a separate episode on, but if you are conservative and you're thinking about entering the public sphere, Do not [00:35:00] do so anonymously. Do not do so anonymously. It is so stupid.

Simone Collins: I can try reverting that in a more diplomatic way. What we would say is if you consider becoming a Non leftist speaker, don't do it through anonymous accounts.

Don't try to hide it because as much as we respect a lot of people who did that, and we think their takes are fun. Honestly, a lot of people whose takes are a lot more reasonable than even ours have been through severe cancellation events because of the fact that they've tried to hide their identities.

It is nearly impossible to hide your identity, especially now, especially in the age of AI. And through illicit. Legal or illegal means I don't care, you will be found and the mere fact that you are attempting to hide your identity makes you vulnerable and makes you more of a target. Expect that everything will come out, expect that everything will come back to you and your [00:36:00] real identity and don't try to fight it.

I can

Malcolm Collins: think of a great example here of two specific individuals, one who is always public and one who tried to be private. So we're reading this by Ryan Nationalist. So I'll use his as an example. Think about the backlash and the real life consequences Ryan Nationalist got when he was doxxed compared with any consequences Ed Dutton has ever faced.

Ed Dutton is Miles to the right of Roy Ignatianalist in terms of anything he's ever written. And yet, he has experienced significantly less backlash because he never had a doxed moment.

And this is why it's so dangerous. But it also helps make sure, like, individuals like us, that you know you're always being recorded.

Okay? Never say anything you don't want played to your real life boss.

So to keep going here. As the association between Bellingcat and Western Intelligence Agencies [00:37:00] deepened, the group has moved away from its earlier model of, quote, open source, end quote, intelligence, where it only used publicly accessible data. To a model that acknowledges, and I'm putting on the screen here that proves this, a piece of proof of this, the use of the kinds of restricted data, like flight manifests and cell phone records, that only intelligence agencies, hackers, and criminals have access to.

Bellingcat assiduously denied that they work with the government. But they would say that, wouldn't they? Also, the labor baroness on their board is a U. S. intelligence asset, according to their, her Wikipedia. She was named Yeah. And that's the one that we talked about earlier. So she's also one, I guess, Billington.

Okay. So just to understand how bad hope not hate is hope, not hate inflamed the riots by spreading false reports of a Muslim woman being attacked with acid and MP from their own party, from the labor party amplified this with Josh Fenton, Glenn, MP retweeting far right cowards attacking [00:38:00] women when people show you who they are, believe them.

And this is retweeting a hope not hate tweet. Reports are coming in of acid being thrown at a car window at a Muslim woman in Middlesboro. Absolutely horrendous. This is completely they just made something up to inflame the riots because that's what they try to do. They are not an anti, they are literally an extremist group.

And they should be treated and labeled as an extremist group. And in fact, I will go so far that if I find my way into a Trump administration, I will have Hope Not Hate labeled by the State Department as a terrorist extremist group. Alongside all the neo Nazi groups alongside, because they're acting like one.

And they need to be categorized as one and I think if we get a conservative majority in the UK, the UK needs to do this as well so we can begin to ferret out who their collaborators are within our intelligence network.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think that's fair. Especially with government funds being used. [00:39:00] To so flagrantly fund a political agenda that is not shared by all taxpayers.

I just that seems so

Malcolm Collins: Shared by all taxpayers. It's like clearly not a threat to the country They're like half of the country is a threat to the country. That's like what they're getting at They believe that is the most anti democratic thing I could conceivably imagine They are trying to ensure that only one of the two major political factions within their country Can win and are using It seems both intelligence assets and taxpayer dollars to ensure that happens.

That is not democracy. That is fascism. That is anti democratic. That is secret police stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it is crazy to me that that is real. I just can't, I can't believe it's real. And I think it took it, it took us getting involved in something like this for us to actually fully come to terms with the fact that it's real.

It's real. It seems that ridiculous. [00:40:00]

Malcolm Collins: Now here is where we break the case because we collected a certain item when we were working with the guy. Apparently we were much more careful than anyone who had ever worked with him before.

Simone Collins: And I want to point out how meaningful that is because you've alluded to this in other podcasts.

But what people consider or call the far right is one of the most open, transparent, inclusive, kind groups of people that you will ever encounter that I've never received a cold shoulder from these people. The only cold shoulders I've ever really received are from progressive groups which is, I think

Malcolm Collins: it's funny.

I, I, I, what if like, this is just like a classic interview you see, where a progressive interviewer will go up to like a black person or like a flamboyantly gay person at like a, a, a, a right wing rally and be like, why are you here? You must be treated horribly by this group. And they're like, no, actually they've been nicer to me than the leftists ever were.

[00:41:00] And then the reporter's like, see how brainwashed they are.

Simone Collins: It comes as no surprise to me that. That this Chris Morton, who is, this is the identity that the undercover reporter presented to the far right extremists that he interacted with that he was met with. Basically, no criticism. No one really pushing on his background.

No one really questioning him and it is also notable that we even pushed him as much as we did. But I will, I will say this. He did some things that were pretty flagrantly suspicious. I mean, aside from having no online footprint at all.

Malcolm Collins: And his, his resume was like, he gave us a resume to try to prove who he was.

It was like a paper thin,

obviously fake resume. If you went over it, I just didn't check it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Why don't you, you should put it on the screen. Put it on the screen. But also his email was literally the real Chris [00:42:00] Morton at insert domain. com, like common that insert email provider. com the real Chris Morton, as in like the personality.

So at one point this was after no, mind you, after we'd have multiple. Zoom calls with him after we had met with him in person over a private lunch. And after we had him invited him and looped him in to a private dinner with other people, by

Malcolm Collins: the way, which is usually against like legality in terms of like what reporters are, .

Simone Collins: That is true. With a

Malcolm Collins: nonprofit, by the way,

Simone Collins: that is wild.

Malcolm Collins: He's stealing nonprofit money from right wing organizations.

Simone Collins: Anyway. So even after that, you know, we, we already looped him in. So we're, we're also very inclusive and we honestly don't really care if, if someone, and we're just as inclusive to Adversarial journalists, I should say we, we wouldn't have invited an adversarial journalist knowingly to a private dinner [00:43:00] party with other people present because we don't want to put anyone else at risk, but we personally will never, doing

Malcolm Collins: another piece on us.

And you're like, and they've always done hit pieces on us. And you're like, yeah, sure.

Simone Collins: Come over. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, come on. Yeah. The guardian who covered hope not hates most recent exposés that they just put out is, is coming over to our place on Friday. I'm going to hang out with another journalist.

We never

Malcolm Collins: close ourselves off to anyone, but I want to get to the, the evidence here. Right. So anyway,

Simone Collins: after this, after this, but before making additional intros for him, because again, we like the rest of the far right community are very inclusive and open. We're like, Hey, we just want to make sure you're a real person because, you know, you, you really do kind of have a suspicious background.

The real Chris Wharton at email provider. com. So we, we asked and he unprovoked sent us a picture of a passport. And this is when we decided he was safe. Do you know

Malcolm Collins: why we decided he was safe when he sent us a picture of a passport? Because it [00:44:00] is illegal.

Simone Collins: No, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: Simone, I will read perplexities answer to this.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Creating and showing a fake passport to anyone in the UK is illegal and can result in serious consequences. It is illegal to create, process, or use a fake passport in the UK under the Identity Documents Act of 2010. This law makes it an offence to possess a false identity document with improper intention, which would include creating and showing a fake passport to someone, even if they are just a random civilian.

Well, but also just like

Simone Collins: literally I'm quoting the identity documents act of 2010, quote, it is an offense for a person without reasonable excuse to have in person's possession or under person's control, an identity document that is false. So it wasn't just the fact that we showed it to us. Or it wasn't the fact that he showed it to us to mislead us.

It was the fact that he possesses a fake ID. His name is not Chris Morton. His name is. Oh, what is his name?

Malcolm Collins: Simone, we'll get to that in a second. We'll get to that in a second because we're going to go over a big piece about him. But the prison sentence [00:45:00] for this would be a 10 year prison sentence. And you would have a criminal record after doing this and you would also face fines.

So we

Simone Collins: know this can't be his illegal use because if you weren't illegally doing this, if the government didn't provide this to him somehow in a way that made him feel safe, he wouldn't send to people he's about to cancel. A piece of incriminating evidence that could put him in jail for 10 years. Yes, because he knew he was going to Post something about us and he knew that we would have this in our email inboxes just sitting there

Malcolm Collins: I mean even even with all of this and I would note to anybody who's listening to this um If if you are in the uk and you want to test this and prove hope not hate's connection to british intelligence Just press the case.

I mean, we're putting a picture of the email here. We're putting a picture of the passport here. I'll leave it to you guys, but I'm fairly certain that what the case isn't going to go anywhere because it's going to turn out that they're connected to British intelligence. And I would not be [00:46:00] airing this.

If I was not certain of that.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because we don't want to put anyone in jail. We do not want to put anyone in jail. I don't want

Malcolm Collins: to put anyone in jail for just like, he got brainwashed colony

Simone Collins: people. We believe in public wit. Like, I would much rather be publicly whipped than put in jail, for sure. Person.

Person. Like, we're very against jail. So like, I don't want anyone put in jail.

Malcolm Collins: Went to Cambridge, got brainwashed by the cult you know, it's normal, it happens to people, one day you may wake up, you know, and be like, oh my god, I can't believe all the horrifying things I've done, all the people I've been collaborating with, these horrific people who divide humans based on their ethnic group, want to enforce a government ideology on the populace, and put Jews at the bottom, They look a lot like another group that rose to power before, and I was one of their witless collaborators.

They enforced their power on the streets using black shirts, just like the fascists did historically.

They I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I was definitely on the suppressive side. I was the [00:47:00] Nazi! Oh my god! Oh! But he's not gonna have that moment, probably. But I don't I don't He could, you know? He could!

No, I

Simone Collins: I think I think he's a He And he He hasn't been working with Hope Not Hate. Until very recently, this was his first project. Yeah, I don't think he

Malcolm Collins: understood, like, what the agenda is here or anything like that. I just think he had this, like, idea of, I'm going to go undercover, wouldn't this be interesting to understand this stuff better?

Yeah. Write a book on it. Yeah. And he got funding from them. And I don't think he understands the, full agenda at play here. Or the truly nefarious intent of a lot of these organizations in terms of stamping out any sort of diversity in either the UK or the, oh yeah, token diversity. Like let's say like color tone diversity.

But not real diversity, not like diversity of ideas or beliefs or anything like that. I mean, look at how fast they dropped their commitment to fighting anti Semitism as soon as it took over their own party. Look at it

Simone Collins: from his perspective. He was a [00:48:00] journalist. He covered things like the, the rise of the far right a little bit, but he wrote about plenty of other things.

He is looking for good journalistic opportunities. He knew that HopeNotHate had experience working undercover and he planned on going to some, you know, far right extremist conference undercover or something like that, and he saw the opportunity and he jumped at it, and I don't, yeah, I think he's an intelligent person who's doing the best for his career.

He's got a

Malcolm Collins: smile that looks similar to somebody who would have worked in intelligence. And there is evidence that somebody else sent us that his parents are in intelligence British intelligence. Former

Simone Collins: intelligence,

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: Since recording this, they found fairly definitive proof that his grandfather was a spy working for the British government. , specifically the thing that made the connection rather than just a last name. So we weren't sure before was they found, , a business records for a brick and mortar development limited company.

Simone Collins: Yeah, maybe. However, I will not

Malcolm Collins: provide that evidence because that could be seen as doxing of his parents, which to me is super gross.

The only reason I'm even mentioning his name is he has publicly Published with his name that [00:49:00] he was the one who did this if he hadn't done that. I would never release his real name

Because unlike him, I don't believe in this kind of doxxing. I think it's wrong I think it's evil. And I think it's what organizations do when they want to scare people I mean, I think you look at something like raw egg nationalists like raw egg nationalists revealing who he is doesn't like Hurt the brand of Rod nationalists.

He's like a normal, healthy looking, successful guy, you know, all it does is make people like him afraid to speak their mind against the fascists who are taking over our government. That's what it does. So let's continue here during the spring of 2023. And this is written by him, right. Or by somebody writing about him.

Which I, which I,

Simone Collins: this is written. By a former colleague of him at the mill, which is the publication where he worked. Even part time leading into his undercover experience with Hope Not Hate.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. During the spring of 2023, undercover reporter Harry Shuckman sat amongst [00:50:00] a group of far right campaigners in a fortified back

patio belonging to Paul Goulding, a Salford based leader of Britain First, and he was terrified. Shuckman had spent the day pamphleting for the party under a secret identity. His fellow pamphleteers knew him as Chris, while he wore a hidden camera as the group sat around the high walled barbed wire patio of Goulding's second home in Dartford, eating takeaway pizza as twilight fell.

Goulding was start Staring directly at Shulkman's chest. This was a man who had been previously jailed for aggravated harassment. I have never heard anything so dystopian as aggravated harassment. They act like it's aggravated assault. What if he

Simone Collins: chides me? What if he chides me? I'm just picturing him in this backyard patio, eating Pizza Express, which is so delicious.

Just like so scared out of his mind that someone is going to, in an aggravated fashion, chide him for, [00:51:00] like, trying to dox him.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know what

Quote, I felt so uncomfortable. It was like my heart was about to explode. In quote, Shalkman recalls, Golding was looking, quote, dead at my chest, drilling his eyes in, and I felt myself getting very hot.

Like f**k, has he seen it? In quote. Immediately, Shalkman began plotting his getaway. Though he quickly realized, with mounting horror, that he was several doors away from the exit. There was, quote, no way I could escape, end quote, without a very thorough tongue lashing from this man. You naughty, naughty man!

How dare you betray all of your friend's trust and our kindness!

We,

Simone Collins: we got you

Malcolm Collins: pizza! He gave them pizza! That's what they're most like, British thing possible. And then to my horror, and then to my horror, I realized I may be criticized. I may have to face some social consequences for my actions. [00:52:00]

Simone Collins: How embarrassing.

Oh dear. Oh my. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: but I, I mean, I just let, but it's because he has, and you should watch your Antifa video if you don't do this, but the leftists use this social technology where they equate somebody being like, Too many immigrants are coming to our country when more people have moved in, more immigrants this year came into America than there were Americans born in America.

And Elon Musk was like, this is a problem. And I'm like, yeah, that does actually seem like a problem. And people like him would be like, that's a fascist thing to say. And it's like, they do that so that they can, in their mind, connect you with Nazis to dehumanize you without actually showing any ideological similarity to Nazis, whereas along every major political and ideological access, except whites being at the top, they are exactly Nazis politically.

And again, go see our video, Is the Left Actually Fascist? I don't

Simone Collins: know, man. There's a lot of whites at the top of these organizations. [00:53:00]

Malcolm Collins: No, but what I'm saying is that the ideology that Nazis pushed is that humans should be viewed as a striated ethno group system where some ethnic group Oh, and this, yeah, that one particular view

Simone Collins: is absent from these leftist groups, that, that one,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Well, no, I'm saying they, they have this ideology. They have an ideology of like a past greatness that, that, that, that awards various ethnic groups the right to be treated this way. Okay. They have narratives where the reason that ethnic groups that should be high within the system are not high within the system due to oppression of the Jews or other groups.

I mean, that's, that's literally what they argue. You can look at, at, at, you know, you're right. It's still the Jews. They know they forget is Nazis. Weren't mad at the Jews. Because they saw Jews as like lesser than them. They were mad at the Jews because they thought the Jews were hoarding all the money and oppressing them.

That,

that was why they were mad at the Jews. Because the Jews were privileged. It is the same [00:54:00] ideology. Anyway. So, and I just like, they're like hanging out with the good guys. They're like, I don't understand why no one on the good guy side is suspicious of me. I'm not saying that this group, I don't know anything about this Britain first group, but if it's anything like Make America First, it's probably not that bad.

Make America First is a mainstream organization in the U. S. that is just concerned about American culture. And I'm like, let's be clear

Simone Collins: though. I don't, I don't know what they actually stand for. So

Malcolm Collins: I don't know what any of these groups stand for, but I'm just saying the people I've met in Make America First, are generally nice people and when I talk to them, they're generally less racist than this guy was pretending to be less racist than the email hope not hate sent us one of my favorite things about the hope not hate.

Oh my gosh. Racist things. So there was this email when they were going to expose us and they go, in private, we caught you saying you wanted to help exceptional people have more kids. But on your website, you say that you want to help Latin Americans.

How do you square that? Can you believe this? Now, you've got to [00:55:00] keep in mind who we are. We live half time in Latin America. We have a home in Peru. The godson of our firstborn son is Latin American. Okay? We are very, very pro Latin American. Just to be clear, in case

Simone Collins: you're only half listening to this podcast, They insinuated through their questioning with of us that there are no elite people in Latin America.

Malcolm Collins: What? You say you want to help people with good genes, but you also want to help Latin Americans? Those disgusting rat monsters! I'm just like, whoa! I have never heard, and I'm being serious here, I have, I have been around Great Replacement Theory people, I have been around America First people, I have never heard one of them speak that disparagingly about Latin Americans.

Yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, fair. People are like, well, then why do they want to keep them? Cause they want to [00:56:00] preserve like a cultural difference. Like Latin Americans are culturally different from us. And I can understand. I don't agree with all that. And as I said, like we've never supported like great replacement through anything like that.

But like I, I could understand that a non malicious person might have concerns there. But anyway

Simone Collins: Yeah, just just to be clear to the the writer from the mill who did say that we supported great replacement theory No But we've joked about greater replacement theory whereby autistic people will inherit the future because they seem to be oddly pronatalist But that is very different.

That's a joke. It's a joke Great

Malcolm Collins: replacement theory that we tell regularly That you need to be dumb not to get, but you know, these people, they're, they're, I don't think they

Simone Collins: have very much of a sense of humor. So yeah. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: no, I've been to lefty events. There's like no jokes It's like sad and depressing all the time and everyone's always talking about their mental health issues it's why like all their comics are bad.

All their movies are bad. All their everything is bad [00:57:00] They like have nothing All independent media that people watch now is like right leaning whether it's like on youtube or on podcast Like I put a top 10 list of podcasts here It's like all right leaning stuff only the legacy media only the stuff that could be bureaucratically captured has any leftist supporters anymore

That's

But this is, this is on, he went to like this, this master teacher who is going to teach him how to be undercover and infiltrate these groups.

And he said, quote, you need to have biographical questions at your fingertips. In quote, Schultzman tells me, quote, you can't hesitate. Do you have siblings? What's your dad's name? What did you do for your A levels? Where did you go to uni? Where did you grow up? Biographical questions need instant answers.

In quote. And I'm like. No, you gave us like this papers in like child could have written it. Child could have told it was fake resume. We just don't ask many questions. And most people don't ask many questions in these groups because they know they're trying to make the world a better place. Well, and I just loved it.

Simone Collins: Like despite this prep that they apparently had this whole spy [00:58:00] craft a moment, they decided on the email, the real Chris Morton.

Malcolm Collins: I think it's based on the real Donald Trump. I think they were trying to create, like, a

Simone Collins: Oh, they were trying to, like, dog whistle some kind of Trump affiliation?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they Look, I'll just say, like, these This is the type of person who is so fundamentally racist and bigoted that they think that Latin Americans can't be exceptional people.

No, it 80 80. I know, I know. Bothers me. I know that, that, that I, I, I am not okay with like actual racist. They like actually squi me out. And like these guys are like, and people are like, what do you mean? Like actual racist versus if somebody's like, I wanna preserve my country's culture. And I think it's different from the cultures of recent immigrants.

I don't think they're lesser than me. I just. want to preserve my country's heritage. I can be like, I might not agree with you, but that is a reasonable and non racist thing to believe.

Simone Collins: No, that's actually, we would say a good thing and we're going to do a podcast soon where you kind of just, you and I [00:59:00] discussed that, like the fact that we think that pluralism plays,

Malcolm Collins: but if somebody comes to me and they're like, I think Latin Americans have disgusting doo doo jeans, I'm like, whoa.

Buddy, chill out, dial it back. That's not fun. Okay. So, so, let's, let's keep going here. Hammerson suggested that Shulkman, as Chris, present himself. And Hammerson is like the secret spy master guy. He's the guy who

Simone Collins: sent us the accusations for response before this article went live. Because he, he and Chris, sorry, he and Chris Morton, whatever his real name is were the, the people working on this project.

super racist

Malcolm Collins: guy? Cause he's the one who drafted that. I would say Chris didn't say all this racist stuff against Latin Americans. This was this other guy, Patrick.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And it, that it, Patrick is the one who sent us the email.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I learned more about, like originally when we responded to the email, we're like, Hey, maybe they actually want to fight racism and antisemitism and we can work together in some way.

Like I was like, cause I didn't know anything about their organization. And now I know that they're like raging anti Semites who. are really just a [01:00:00] political affiliation trying to stamp out ideological diversity. It should have been clear to me. I mean, given how religiously offensive their attacks on us were that they were just in attacks on mainstream Calvinist police, and yet they're supposed to fight for religious inclusivity.

Yet the concept of the elect, they're like, no, You need to be canceled for your religion.

Anyway anyway, so, that, that he presented himself as someone who's relatively new to the scene and curious what it's all about. Exactly the type of person we would be happy to talk to.

Chris has watched some far right YouTubers who have piqued his interest. Chris is concerned about where the country is going.

Quote, there is a perception in this far Right that an infiltrator will be the most extreme person in the room in quote and I I he was extreme enough to make me uncomfortable. Like I remember after the talk. I was like that guy is like he needs to chill out And so we tried to introduce him to like a bunch of like more chill people at like our dinner parties and stuff like that Because he seemed open to being more chill He seemed like [01:01:00] something who may have like watched one too many at dot and videos And like really bought into all of that You And didn't realize that there was like another side to all of this where you, you can admit that falling fertility rates is the thing, admit that humans have genes, admit that dysgenics is a real problem without spiraling into like racist conspiracies.

But I think that that's just what he was trained to try to learn, but he came across as like really racist. Anyway, but, but again, like the type of racist who was open to deconversion, which is why we took the time to talk to him. But that's not to say there weren't many frightening moments besides the evening at Golding's back patio. Shulkman was once meeting with somebody connected to the pronatalist movement when he took a video call under his real name. Normally he's careful to be logged in only under his Chris accounts while he's undercover.

 I'm guessing. Let's

Simone Collins: not, we shouldn't, we shouldn't name her.

Malcolm Collins: No, they named her in the article.

Simone Collins: I know, but she probably Okay, sorry.

Malcolm Collins: This may have been our female POC [01:02:00] college, like, basically intern at the time. Who is like the sweetest person and they insisted on doxing.

Even though we told them like what are you doing? She has never really worked for us. She's had no connection to our organization for years. You can provably verify any of this. And yet he's scared of this little, Chinese and Persian woman.. Because he's fundamentally a bigot and a coward. That, that's it, right?

He just wants to go out there and dehumanize people. So, I, I just, I don't, I, I, I, somebody who could be like terrified, like, this college kid who I need to dox is gonna, like, what, what kind of a b*****d do you need to be?,

Just imagine being afraid. of this person. Just imagine being afraid of this person.

Like, what? And this person, by the way, in my general experience, is generically left leaning.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: She [01:03:00] just admits humans have genes and they affect behavior. That's it. That was that was the evil thing. Absolutely heartless and I just anyway but let's go further here.

And if you want to understand like what I mean by dehumanizing people and like, like normal people, you guys watch our podcasts, a lot of you see us every day, you know, what I mean. That while they might be calling us far right activists, you know, we are at best center right activists where I think a lot of people might consider a centrist or even leftist, right?

But they're so brainwashed, they can't see this and they work apparently for the British government, but it was also difficult for Schultman to quote, befriend people. So that you can ultimately betray them in quote, it's hard to explain. He says, even those you've were people who had said and done incredibly racist things, anyone who knows us knows that it's just a lie.

They were still people who told Schultman about their friends and loved and love lives and their gardens and their holidays in [01:04:00] Spain, their divorces, their parents getting old and sick. You have to have some, You have to have a heart of stone to not emphasize with them on some level, Schultzman says, even though if they knew who you were in quotes, which is just not true.

I mean, you can see what we say about him. Like we don't have any genuine animosity to him. I just see him as somebody who is brainwashed and is basically working for a fascist government to complete their agenda. And one day he may wake up just like so many Nazi collaborators did and been like, Am I the baddie?

Like, is, is the, is the side with the ethno hierarchy that believes that different ethnic groups are deserving of different levels of human dignity, the side that's taking away people's children, is that the, is that me, me, the bad guy side? The side that controls all government institutions and large companies and enforces its will on a diverse group of people and the other side is just fighting for pluralism and the right to have their own cultural practices.

It's, it's a side that [01:05:00] almost every day holds anti semitic marches through the heart of London. Might, might they be the pack?

Simone Collins: I think what's really interesting too is that a lot of people, including possibly this undercover reporter, are kind of under this like delusional perception that there is some big evil far right community that doesn't really exist.

And he's sitting in these undercover scenarios, terrified of being caught, but I think also maybe feeling a lot of cognitive dissonance because he is trying to see something that's not there. Maybe subtly realizing that he's effectively attempting to disrupt and dismantle the lives and careers of people who are undeserving of such persecution.

Yes. We're totally normal people who are concerned about their communities, who haven't actually said anything insane. And I'd also

Malcolm Collins: point out and we pointed this out before i'll always point it out It's something that people need to be reminded of because it's [01:06:00] one of the biggest lies that the left will tell people Is that 538 nate silver a mainstream u.

s polling organization? Showed that there is not more racism, at least not significantly more racism within Republican voters in the United States than left wing voters. In fact, until Obama was elected, your average white Democrat was more likely to say they would not vote for a black president than your average white Republican.

It is a lie. There is not any disproportionately racist Republican base. No, by that what I mean, I'm not saying that there's no racists who support Republican candidates, but there are not more racists who support Republican candidates than the equivalent racist groups on the left. And I'm, and here I'm talking about not like calling like Black Lives Matter a racist thing.

I'm talking about white generic racists.

Simone Collins: Yeah, sort of the classic definition of racism as understood by the left. And let's be honest, all people are b******s. I mean, people [01:07:00] are messed up. And

Malcolm Collins: I think you're right. I think he had this moment of cognitive dissonance where he realized that these people on the right, weren't saying anything more racist and were likely significantly less antisemitic than the parties he was going to on the left.

But he just had to dehumanize them. He had to categorize them like this. And I think that so many people on the left are like this. They just, it's like a cult, like being a Scientologist. Like you just. You have this one day where you look around and you put it all together and you're like, we were, when I look at the statistics, when I actually look at the information, we were the bad guys from the beginning.

Simone Collins: Well, and keep in mind, realistically, he can't walk this back. He left his job at the mill. He sunk a year, at least into this undercover reporting. He nuked his entire online footprint and removed as many photos of himself as well, off, off the internet, as much as he could. He has put everything into this that I think there's going to be a documentary and a book.[01:08:00]

He, he cannot, he's too path dependent at this point, go back on this. He's also written himself into a political corner, even if he has realized that his side is immoderate. At the very least there is nothing he can do.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. This reminds me of something that was said in the email where they, they reached out to us where they said well, you know, we can connect you with the magazine Aporia that is said human biodiversity is real because you gave them strategic advice to never engage in human biodiversity stuff.

And if they did, you would work with them and.

Simone Collins: No, if they did, then we could not work with them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, if they, if they, if they didn't disengage with HPD, we couldn't work with them. And, and they came to us with this and I'm like, wait, so you in private meetings with other people know that we have told other people that we will never, ever, ever support human biodiversity related agendas.[01:09:00]

And you are still attempting to, to, to say that we are racist. That we are promoting racism, when you know behind closed doors, we are against publicly airing scientific studies and facts that could be used to promote racism. Like, you know that that's not true. You know you are the bad guys in this. But that's, that's what gets me in all this.

Okay, let's, let's continue here. Now that's, I love speaking of a Porya. I hope that this makes a Porya feel at least a bit better. I like most of a Porya's reporting. I think it's really good. Like I don't like the HBD stuff, but I think they're one of the best scientific magazines out there right now.

If you are into science, this might be like the best scientific magazine. I think that I've read minus other HBD stuff. Because I think they really cut to the chase on a lot of things. Are there HDF and other organizations, oh, sorry. Are [01:10:00] the HDF and other organizations succeeding in shifting public opinion?

Quote, disappointingly, end quote. Shulkman says, quote, certain aspects of scientific racism have taken hold in the mainstream, end quote. Oporia's predecessors in terms of white supremacist publishing like Mankind Quarterly were not very well read. End quote. And are, were quite difficult to find. While Aporia's popularity has grown to the extent that a conservative MP, Neil O'Brown, approvingly shared one of their articles on his sub stack last year, quote, the West fertility crisis, end quote.

And you can see, like, that's the type of article of theirs that I love. They do great jobs with those articles. Schultman points out that, quote, Discussions about IQ and genetics are also animating the American presidential contest, end quote. Was Donald Trump recently telling a conservative talk show host that, quote, we got a lot of bad genes in our country right now, end quote.

[01:11:00] Raising the specter of Nazi eugenics. That sounds so like Trump. We've got a lot of bad X in this country. Didn't say bad genes from immigrants. It said we have bad genes in our country right now. Applying general dysgenic selection, idiocracy basically, no more racist than Mike Judd, but not that they're coming from immigrants.

And here what I will point out is the left realized is they're losing. Organizations like Hope Not Hate realize they're getting like 20 re shares with a post like this. They realize that they can spend two years on something and do everything they want, but everyone sees through it now. It's the same way that the big game companies, they'll release a game like Concord, they'll release a game like, and I'm sure this is gonna happen with Assassin's Creed Shadows, where they release the most racist game maybe in history.

Which is about a black guy going around, who didn't exist, going around Japan, killing Japanese people, victimizing, like, innocent Japanese families, who's supposed to be the hero, and they're like, I don't understand why this would be a problem, it's a black person, [01:12:00] they're allowed to kill any other ethnicity, aren't they?

And then everyone else is like, Japan's like, no, and they're like, but it's a historic figure, and Japan's like, did you check that before you, you made this? And they're like, oh, I guess it's not a historic figure, did we just make a game? to like a gangster rap about a black guy murdering innocent Japanese families and think that it was okay because we are so delusionally racist at this point.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: And if you're thinking anyone, even the brainwashed people at the company must have known this would lose them money.

Speaker: It's not about money. It's about sending a message.

Malcolm Collins: What

Simone Collins: you can, you can delete this, but my understanding is it was a real historical figure. And Assassin's Creed actually does have a history even before the whole woke crisis of making very woke countercultural narratives woven within their games consider the colonial American 1. That this was a real historical black figure in Japanese history.

However, it, it, it is very unlikely that he was a [01:13:00] samurai. He was more likely kept around as a curiosity. And they're playing with that as, as a sort of sort of the assassin's creed narrative.

Malcolm Collins: It's essentially a zoo attraction. Yes. A racist atrocity of history. Yes. Not be glorified in a game that they are.

It's revisionist

Simone Collins: history where instead of him being a, zoo animal. They're, they're like, let's make him cool and a samurai. They probably watched, um, Ghost Dog and they were like, what a cool concept. Black, black samurai. And it's a great movie. Ghost Dog's so cool. So I get, I mean, I'm like, I see, I think there's plausible deniability for Assassin's Creed.

I like their aesthetics and I like their historical play. And so I'm hoping they're okay. I just want to say that.

Malcolm Collins: If you were making this game, that the game was fundamentally racist and dehumanizing of Japanese people and their culture. You would have realized this as a random, like, broadly sane human being.

Yeah, they, they could have done

Simone Collins: a, [01:14:00] yeah, they

Malcolm Collins: could have done a lot better. It's not a lot better. They made a game that was racist, that they were unable to see was racist because they personally dehumanized Asians. And this is a crosswalk culture where Asians do not matter. They are not human because they are in the same category as whites and Jews.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I, yeah, no, it's definitely like the, the Jew dynamic of, of you can't be subject to racism. If you're doing really well in society, in terms of like financial outcomes.

Malcolm Collins: Now let's see what they wrote about us in this piece because you'll you'll enjoy this completely fictional narrative here

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: it also went undercover inside the pronatalist movement encouraging people to have more babies Though only the right kind of people having the right Kind of babies.

Yeah. So like people who

Simone Collins: want children

Malcolm Collins: who want children, we are consistent about this. He's implying that like, we mean like white people should have more babies than what we mean is that dinks [01:15:00] probably shouldn't be having kids. And we don't want to pressure them to have kids because they've got bad, selfish, antipro social genes.

We're for, like, pro social, nice people who want to dedicate their lives to the future of our civilization having more babies. And they don't like that they're not in that group, so they have to re categorize everything we say as meaning something else. How

Simone Collins: dare we not coerce them, Handmaid's Tale style, into having kids.

It's their fetish. They're so cute. So I love

Malcolm Collins: they sent us a thing before him where they're like, you don't want everyone having more kids. You just want like exceptional people having more kids. And we're like, yeah, because we like define that by people who are willing to sacrifice their lives for future generations.

As we have said many times in multiple videos. Anyway global figures as powerful as Elon Musk have scaremongered about declining birth rates leading to the collapse of society, but while the pronatalist movement at large paints itself as interested in increasing fertility wholesale, Shulkman's investigations have found that, quote, the quantity of babies being born is less important.

than their genetic quality of their parents, end quote. Schultzman [01:16:00] met undercover with the Collinses. This was his interpretation of our words. Well, and also, it's

Simone Collins: very rich that they would word it that way because if parents in this movement believed that they had high genetic quality, we wouldn't be doing polygenic risk score selection.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, right? Like, this is the weird thing that's always surprising me, where people are like, You're having kids because you think you're genetically superior and you do polygenic selection. And I'm like, those two things are opposites. People who think that they're genetically perfect don't do genetic selection on their embryos.

We do genetic selection for cancer in our family while also looking for little side nuggets. All right. I'm gonna fit. Shulkman met undercover with the Cullenses, a married white couple. We need to have like spooky music. Spooky, scary, white couple.

Speaker 14: This scary skeleton Sends [01:17:00] shivers down your spine

Malcolm Collins: you know, he's a white couple, right? Like he's got a girlfriend.

He's got a girlfriend. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Well, well maybe hopefully she'd better not be white. Well, I don't, I'm just saying.

Malcolm Collins: Who used to be tech workers and venture capitalists, but have now dedicated their lives to becoming the most famous faces of the pronatalist movement. Though they publicly disavow racism and reject the label of eugenicists, they believe that not enough quote unquote smart people are breeding and have endorsed the racist Great Replacement Theory.

Which, one, we have not. Anyone who watches this show knows we do not. We endorse the greater replacement theory, which is a joke around autists having more people, a joke at the expense of great replacement theorists. So this is just factually untrue and fabrication, but should we expect anything else from leftists?

Or from the government at this point? But yeah, we do claim that not enough smart people are having kids because like every scientific study that has [01:18:00] ever been done shows that there's a huge correlation between intelligence and genetics. And that that correlation is also directly correlated to low fertility rates.

I love in the piece on this, they're like, diff genetics. A geneticist wouldn't use that term. They're like, not a geneticist employed within the urban monoculture, but like a sane person who. Who can see the world would it's one of these things It's like one of these lies that the urban monoculture makes everyone tell this like obviously like a religious thing and like not like true um Uh, like, you know as i've always said like when my colleagues at samford are like, oh, well Yeah, I grew up poor and everything like that, but I achieved all of this through hard work and determination And and the you know, the other people in my community didn't like well, I mean your genes probably played a pretty big role and they're like no No, it was just me.

And I'm like, well, you know, you, Mr whatever this guy's real name is who went to Cambridge and who has had an incredibly easy life because of that pretending that this unearned privilege, your genes that you had access to and [01:19:00] other people didn't have access to, that that is something that you shouldn't have to recognize when contrasting yourself with less privileged individuals.

That is disgusting, and you will be remembered in the future very negatively for it. Not accepting and admitting unearned privilege you were born with is horrifying. But let's go further. Reading Shulksman's reporting on the Cullens, because he read his reporting on us, who earlier this year published a podcast episode titled, Would taking away women's right to own property solve the fertility crisis?

Question mark. By the way, the answer, that was a question mark, the answer in the episode is, no, it wouldn't. We said, yes, it may cause a short term, upturned blip in fertility, but it would not serve the question long term. But of course, they lie. Progressives always lie. Here I need to put the clip from that show that you have, where they're [01:20:00] like, yes, we lie all the time now, because we're the party of lying, because we're dehumanize the other party, even though the other party doesn't like that much anymore, and we just say, ah, yes, yes, yes, we are the, the liar, liar extraordinaire.

Speaker 18: are these. Attack, lie, don't get caught. Machiavelli wrote The Prince for the Rulers. Well, we're rewriting it for us.

Malcolm Collins: Made me wonder what he discovered about the links in the far right between white supremacy and misogyny. Quote, the statistics speak for themselves, end quote. He told me he estimated about 90 percent of people he met across various far right networks were men. I let the statistics speak for themselves.

He estimated. Ah. Okay, so he made up a number. Quote, it was six months before I met a woman for this project, end quote. Well, he did come off very incelly. Did he come off as like the most incelly of incels? Like, he's hanging out in like, Ed Dutton's network. I don't, no, no, no, no, sorry, nothing against Ed Dutton, but I bet his [01:21:00] gender statistics are far to the male of our gender statistics.

What?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like he chose who he engaged with. He chose to engage with dudes. There are plenty of women on. There

Malcolm Collins: are plenty of women in the movement. The dissonant right, far right. Probably more than 50 percent women. Like he's just probably misogynist himself and doesn't think of the women that he's meeting with as worthy of talking to.

That's my guess. Look, we keep seeing this misogyny and, and, and, and, and, and rabid racism and dehumanization of other groups in the left, like. It's what do you expect? Right? Like with that Smithsonian thing that we've gone over in so many things, one of their groups was like, well, hard work and honesty and coming to work on time.

These are all white people traits. And it's like, that is violently racist. You're a mainstream government funded left leaning organization. Like that's insane in the United States. It [01:22:00] was put that out. Anyway, quote, the sexism in these groups is absolutely pervasive, end quote, he says, end quote, in different ways, there would be people I met more in the manosphere who listen to pick up artists podcasts, who practice ways they could hoodwink women into bed with them.

Others were more trapped in their outlook, whether venerate women as baby making machines, or whether they saw them as intellectually inferior. Creatures in quote being around a quote a barrage of regressive and violent views It was depressing and disappointing in quote It was actually interesting. When they sent out this stuff to us before this article went live They interpreted a lot of like very normal stuff We said as racist and I think a lot of the racism that he was experiencing was completely within his mind One of the things they wanted to talk on is the collins is said behind closed doors [01:23:00] That black people score lower on IQ tests than white people.

Can you believe they would say this? And then I was like you know, that's just like a fact. And I gave him like the Wikipedia page on like achievement gaps. Like all civil rights organizations are trying to lower this gap. This is the fact that everyone knows. And he's like, and they said that you shouldn't be overly broadcasting this in public.

I was like, yes, that's a fact that every civil rights advocate knows. Right? You were the one who heard that and then interpreted it as blacks are inferior to whites. Not us. We didn't say that. We stated a fact that in your weird, bizarre, dehumanizing brain turned into blacks are worse than whites. And I bet you heard so many facts about women that you turned into horrifying stereotypes about women in your addled, misogynist mind, here's an example.

A conservative [01:24:00] may state a fact women are more interested in being submissive in sexual situations than men are. They consume more content around submission than men do, and even when it comes to things like being choked and sexual violence, they don't. Watch, read A Billion Wicked Thoughts. It covers this very mainstream, very sed I think it's the leftist saying, or the pragmatist kind of sexuality.

It's just like, really clear in the statistics. This stuff is coming from women. Men did not make Fifty Shades of Grey a best selling book. Okay? Now you may hear all of those facts, and hear me say, Men should abuse their wives. That is not what I said. I stated uncomfortable facts that we need to address, but because conservatives are the only people who tell the truth anymore, you can't stand to hear the truth and then say, and now let's find out how we deal with this.

How do we build a culture that works admitting that these facts are true?

Simone Collins: And I think that's the other problem. [01:25:00] I think one of the reasons why groups like hope not hate are flailing so much to find these hate groups to expose these people is they need they need this. This community to exist, because they, they don't actually have the agency or capability to solve the problems they propose to solve, like, like, racial achievement gaps insofar as race is a thing, you know, like, inequality in society, they don't have the wherewithal or ability to solve these problems.

And if these. Hate groups that they need to exist cease to exist or cease to not be real or show themselves to not be the things that they're trying to make them into these people have nothing to do. And then no 1 to answer for, except for themselves as to the, like, why they're their values are not being maximized.

Why their initiatives are failing.

Malcolm Collins: This is why we're an existential threat to them. Which we've [01:26:00] increasingly seen to be the case because we have been very successful at actually stamping out racism in the far right of American politics. If you look at this presidential cycle versus the presidential cycle before, before people had a non racist.

racist way to talk about it's human genetic differences. Which again, don't cluster under ethnic groups in an extreme way. You can watch any of our episodes on this and, and where they do have any clustering there. They change so quickly, you know, with like the Average person in the developed world going to be one standard deviation lower in IQ.

Watch our episode on idiocracy if you want to learn more about that. Like that, like, ethnic differences wouldn't matter if that was the case, right? So, like, none of this stuff matters. And when we fight all of this with facts, When we point out, you don't need to worry about Latin Americans replacing us.

They have like a super low fertility rate. Latin America fell below replacement rate collectively back in 2019 and is falling way faster than the U S Latin America is getting close to Korea levels [01:27:00] in many, many countries. Like the situation in Latin America is bad. And then groups are like, Oh, I used to think I needed to worry about like Latin American immigrants, but I now realize that we're just sending them to cities where they're having their fertility shredded.

Like, they're as much of victims by the urban monoculture as us. And there are a bunch of trad cast families. Yeah, we should work together. And this is partially why Latin American families are moving over and moving over and not just trad cast. A lot of them are converting to Protestant to them, converting to mainstream American culture as they move to the right to defend their children from these.

You know, scary, scary groups. These groups are now realizing, Oh my God. The, the, the scary, like nutter actual fat, like, like, like people with like actually unpalatable opinions on the right was like Nick Fuentes around race and stuff like that. They've disappeared from the public narrative. They're gone.

The racists are gone. They left the building. Now the right is the side of equality. And you can see this in the data, and we [01:28:00] have been for the long time, because you can see that the more right wing a district was historically, the smaller the gap between both IQ and earnings between its ethnic minority population, be they black or hispanic in its white population.

Simone Collins: That's the crazy thing. Is it if you actually want to address achievement gaps, if you're actually looking to what groups are reducing? Achievement gaps when it comes to earning, educational attainment, likely intelligence tests, but this hasn't been looked at. Oh no, it's conservative

Malcolm Collins: groups! Oh no! Oh no, they're the only ones who when a lesbian woman comes to you and says I keep getting assaulted by when, by men claiming to be women on women's dating apps.

Can I please have one dating app where people can't just claim to be trans? And I'm not even saying that trans people can't be on the app. I'm just saying non passing trans people can't be on the app. That was the case in the Australian court case about Oh, Tickle

Simone Collins: vs. Giggle?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, where the woman got sued she had [01:29:00] a, she allowed trans people in the app.

They just had to be passing. They used a face recognition thing, right? Like I can understand why a lesbian would want that. And they're like, shut up, you disgusting woman. Let the men make decisions about what you lesbians get to say is safe. If you say you don't feel safe going to your nightclubs because now there's random men who have learned they can just claim to be trans.

I don't believe that a sex pest would do that. And it's like, why would a sex pest not do that if you give them permission to? I'm not saying trans people don't exist. I'm saying that if you uncritically accept anyone who says they're trans is trans, sex pests will use this to harass lesbian women. You stopped protecting women.

You stopped protecting gay men when you allowed people to use their identity to push agendas and hurt children. And gay men, they don't want this. They're not on board with this, and yet you claim to speak for all of them, when almost half of them don't support you anymore in the U. [01:30:00] S. They were the ones who won all these rights.

They were the vast majority of the early gay rights, LGBT rights, I'm sorry, now activists. But let's continue here. One of the most significant ways the far right is succeeding is in making the more extreme views palatable to the mainstream is by scapegoating migrants during a cost of living crisis and blaming them for Britain's decline.

Did Shulkman come away from his investigation with a better sense of how so many men are getting radicalized? Quote, there are various explanations for radicalization, some of them competing Some of them competing ones, he says, in quote. Though, the one he favors most is called, quote, Significant Quest Series, in quote.

So, keep in mind, he just dismissed that immigrants have anything to do with the cost of living crisis. He's like, this has nothing to do with anything, nothing to do with the economy. Nothing to do with the amount you get paid for a job. The number of people competing for a job has [01:31:00] nothing to do with how much you're earning for that job.

Simone Collins: That is

Malcolm Collins: just a denial of reality.

Simone Collins: He's a journalist, not an economist, Malcolm. Give him a break.

Malcolm Collins: No, he's, he's, he's a psyops guy and not a, somebody who has your best interest at heart. But let's, let's see what he does think is leading people to the right. Or the idea that people's needs for social standing and belonging can lead them to extreme beliefs. Oh, they're just not loved enough. People who are, quote, knocked by a difficult experience, end quote, can lose sight of their own value in the world.

Maybe they've fallen into alcoholism, or their family was torn apart during a divorce, quote, devastating setbacks, quote. Like that, Schluckman says, quote, can shake your feeling of personal significance, and you want to get it back, and some people will seek to get it back in extreme ways, end quote, except we know the mental health staff, you knob, all of the mental health problems are way, way, [01:32:00] way, way bigger on the left.

You guys are barely able to keep yourselves from from sticking a knife in your throat every morning. If you look at left wing white women under the age of 30 in the United States, over half of them have a major mental health problem. The more the urban monoculture infiltrates a group like the LGBT community, the more likely they are to attempt to unalive themselves.

And you can say, well. That's because they're oppressed. Well, if it's because they're oppressed, why has the rate been going up as you guys have gained more power? Why has the rate been going up as their rights have increased? It's because it's not because they're oppressed. It's because your entire social system is killing them.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Just so you understand how severe this trend is. Not only has pew data since the data started recording happiness levels on the Democrats in the United States versus Republicans in the U S always said that Republicans [01:33:00] were significantly happier, but recently an AI was trained to determine people's political affiliation by looking at their face.

, and it dated two composite images.

It could determine it with 60% accuracy. , and the two core things that differentiated right-leaning faces was that they looked happier and the women were more attractive.

Malcolm Collins: It's killing the people it touches. When you tell somebody, You just need to live your life doing whatever makes you feel good in the moment and be affirmed for whatever you want to believe about yourself and never have to experience a single negative emotional stimuli because what are trigger warnings?

What is their panic around Bopgate? Around us saying that corporal punishment is good and the research obviously says it's good if you look at the research that's like modern. A new study came out recently on this. Just keep being vindicated. The Vindicators! If you're wondering why they come to adopt these beliefs when you remove it. Any negative stimuli for them and you just tell them to do whatever makes them happy in the moment.

Be validated for whatever you want to believe about yourself. And then I, somebody [01:34:00] with a degree in neuroscience, who has been published in the field, who has an exhibit still on display at the Smithsonian, who has worked at UT Southwestern, a very respected medical institution in this field. Like people are like, did you work as a neuroscientist?

Yes, I worked in neuroscience for Four years. And then I worked adjacent to neuroscience and brain computer interface for two years. I have extensive experience in this field. If I told you, well, you know, if you actually look at the research and not like the weird lefty capture stuff, I could tell you that if you remove any negative emotional experience for someone, they're going to become hypersensitized to them and freak out whenever they encounter them, which is why things like trigger warnings and removal of corporal punishment and removal of exposing yourself to negative stimuli causes severe negative backlash.

And they're like, Wait, we are the ones causing all the mental pain? That can't be the truth. I'm like, really? Just look at, like, mainstream psychology textbooks, anything other than, like, from the past 15 years or so, and you'll see that, like, we used to always know this. All of the data always pointed this out.

Like, you [01:35:00] shouldn't be doing this. You should not be removing negative emotional stimuli from people, and yet you built an entire cultural ecosystem, because that's what the urban monoculture is, that's dedicated to this. But anyway, what are your thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: I'm really alarmed that this does seem to have government association.

I thought things were kept at least a little separate, some separation of church versus state, because ultimately, you know, the urban monoculture is a religion in the end.

Malcolm Collins: To understand what she means when she says that, when I talk about the areas where they just deny both observable reality and science, You know, I've mentioned a few here.

A great example of this is like trans people in sports. Anyone can look at a picture of Leah Thomas and be like, that person obviously had the same advantage a male would have, maybe slightly diminished rate of hormones, competing in that competition. I can look at the studies. I can look at the difference in her results.

When she identified as a man versus when she identified as a woman and just see yeah She had a huge advantage. And to say otherwise is a [01:36:00] religious belief because it goes against observable reality It goes against common sense and it goes against scientific data,

Speaker 16: Have you actually ever

Speaker 17: met Heather Swanson? Uh, no, I've never competed against her before, no.

Speaker 16: She's not exactly your average trans athlete.

Speaker 17: Honestly, I find that kind of bigoted, David.

Speaker 16: Okay, Heather Swanson is actually joining us now. Miss Swanson, how does it feel to be competing today?

. Now that I can compete as female, I'm ready to smash the other girls.

Malcolm Collins: But continue

Simone Collins: i'm Scared i'm i'm scared about it I I mean just even going through this podcast and realizing there are so many things and examples that we can't even reference at this point because of already how much Things are being censored.

I, I have my doubts about how the future is going to play out now and I am more concerned than before. I think a lot of people who've already been affected by this for a long time are like, I told you so, this is really bad. My hope is that perhaps, With the U. S. [01:37:00] Election, we could see a tide turning.

I think that when they were

Malcolm Collins: already seeing a tide turning, they got rid of the old conservative party and replace them with this. I forgot what it's called the new party, but they're like actual conservatives. Yeah.

Simone Collins: So maybe, maybe we'll see. We'll say, we'll say a market correction of all this. And if that happens, That is is great.

You know,

Malcolm Collins: I don't think no, I think that we're seeing a market correction in terms of public sentiment. I think the public now knows the concentration camps are active. They're up in arms about it, but the cult has stronger and stronger control of it ever did than the sources of power of our society, whether it's government bureaucracy or the bureaucracy of large companies.

The only thing we can do is replace them or recapture these institutions or. Run reconquistas on these institutions that mean people in positions of power need to hire Consultants like us like we're willing to do this for you We have anti bigot. com that we eventually will turn into a consultant website To go through any of your organizations and run dei [01:38:00] remediation remove the individuals who are promoting bigotry hate, racism, sexism, xenophobia and calling it anything other than those things.

Because unlike the classic DEI consultants who promote this type of bigotry, we don't come in and make you lose money, we come in and help you remove people. We come in and help you cut the fat. And we only take money based on how much fat we cut successfully, by the way, without losing you money.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Well, okay. So there's, there's a hope. I don't know. I'm just there. There is a hope about people like us. We need to continue to grow. You guys need to

Malcolm Collins: like and subscribe, like and subscribe. Okay.

Simone Collins: Please like and describe. Yes. That would be appreciated.

Malcolm Collins: You are a great wife. And it's so funny when I hear him be like, Oh, these people are desperate.

I know nobody on the right who comes across as like mentally unwell, like none of the major figures. Except for like the ones who have been sort of isolated [01:39:00] from the movement, like Nick Fuentes, who like doesn't really talk to any of the mainstream players, but like the people that they've been trying to cancel recently, you know, your Johnny anomalies, you're raw egg nationalists.

They all seem like, Super like mentally healthy, happy people with spouses and, you know, like

Simone Collins: we're trying to do good in the world and you're trying to make the world a better place for their kids well and at great personal risk, which makes them more admirable. Because now that that I see. In greater clarity what they're up against And one I mean, I do understand Why they started out trying to be anonymous.

I think maybe when they first started posting they you know We lived in an age where it was maybe possible to be anonymous but I mean now that I I see like how much people are being attacked. I I get it Well,

Malcolm Collins: and you can see how these

Simone Collins: groups

Malcolm Collins: twist reality. So someone like kevin dolan, right kevin dolan You know One of the sweetest guys I've ever met.

Maybe he said something racist in the past. I don't [01:40:00] know. That doesn't mean that that's who he is today. And I would point out that the areas where they have quote unquote caught him for saying racist things, it turns out they were just lying. Like, in the piece where they point out, he said that, they said, Kevin Dolan said Jews were nexus of evil.

They published this twice, in two different pieces. The actual tweet, Said the county of Santa something in Florida. It's, it's the county where Fort Lauderdale is. It's the nexus of evil. And they, we would just say all of Florida is the nexus. Did you know, you didn't know the Jewish population of that county.

They then decided to interpret that through their incredibly antisemitic or racist view of reality as Jews. Now this organization did some other crazy person online decided to, and then this organization uncritically was out looking for the source tweet, decided to just. regurgitate. If it fit their own biases and prejudices, they're willing to regurgitate it.

Now, they've since corrected this, which I appreciate. Let's see if they correct other things, like saying that we support great replacement theory, which we never have. [01:41:00]

Simone Collins: The mill that did that. Yeah, that was the mill. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, great. What they do still have on their side about us, which is just factually untrue is they say, they say bad genes are coming into the country.

They say bad genes are having more kids and bad genes are coming into the country. We have never said bad genes are coming into the country. We have said actually good genes are coming into the country. If anybody has watched like any of our immigration stuff, I think we talk about like the selective

Simone Collins: pressures at play basically to.

To immigrate in, in, in many, many, many cases requires a level of, we'll say, Fitness, you could argue genetic fitness that is quite high and that the, the populations that immigrate are typically the smarter, the educated, the

Malcolm Collins: first squeeze immigrants. I will say, I won't say all immigrants fall into this camp.

You know, when you're talking about refugees and stuff like that,

Simone Collins: and there are different types of immigrants. If you're talking about a population of immigrants that is going somewhere to get completely supported by the government and proceed to not work, right. You're, you're not selecting for [01:42:00] most agentic high achieving people because those aren't those people.

If you are talking about a group of people who through great personal risk came to another foreign land that they weren't familiar with. And then it proceeded to attempt to build a life for themselves and make their own income there and generate tax revenue and build a family there. That is, that's more than I've done.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and I would say that a lot of these people, they just can't handle the reality that most of the right is actually pretty pro legal immigration of high skilled immigrants. 100%!

Simone Collins: Yeah! Even

Malcolm Collins: Trump tried to pass a law that would make it easier for them to immigrate into the country, and the leftist killed it.

Simone Collins: Well, and his current policy is if you get,

Malcolm Collins: A college degree in the U. S. Yeah. Any college degree in the U. S. You automatically get citizen. That is, I don't know. I don't know if it's citizen. I

Simone Collins: think it's like green card or something or like

Malcolm Collins: citizenship. I think it was that severe. It might be green card, but, but I mean,

Simone Collins: he's trying to say like, we welcome outsiders who are willing to contribute to United States.

And I think that's the [01:43:00] big issue. And that's that is kind of the issue with immigration across the world. Is that There, there is a need in many, many, many nations for these people who are willing to immigrate and contribute and build, and there's a lot of damage being incurred by countries who have very generous social services that then subsequently support people who are not willing to contribute.

And that's a, that's a big struggle.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right and I it, it's just sad that it's reached this stage that the, the enemy of, of pluralism, the enemy of freedom, the enemy of, Of fair democratic processes because there is nothing you can say, but it's not pro fair democratic processes.

If it's using money to support one party and attack another party, public money.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: it is the urban monoculture. It is the left and all you guys can do is vote.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Wherever you are in the world, vote, [01:44:00] vote. Well, both vote politically, and also with your pocket book, you know, support organizations, products, services and politicians.

Anyone

Malcolm Collins: who watches this in the Trump administration let us know. We want to work. We want to help dismantle this thing. You don't need to pay us. I just want a future for my children that isn't the fascist dictatorship that the Democrats are currently working towards. Just appointing camel. I, I love that.

Just like, we we don't, you know, we don't do primaries anymore. That's for the oligarchs to decide.

Simone Collins: I will

Malcolm Collins: anyway. Love you so

Simone Collins: much. I love you. And I, I also wish all the best to the real Chris Morton.

Whatever,

Malcolm Collins: whatever his name is. I don't know. Wherever you are, dude. Overly doxxed.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And we, we, we didn't put your fake passport on the internet. Attempting to hurt you in any way. Anyway, we, we. Have very good reason to believe that

Malcolm Collins: there is this connection here. And it's like the best way to do it.

[01:45:00] You know, if, if you actually were just breaking the law, you

Simone Collins: wouldn't have done that if you were actually just breaking the law. Because you're not, you're, you're a smart person and we know that

Malcolm Collins: you went to Cambridge, you wouldn't take that risk. I don't believe that we did. That would take that risk.

And I will say, you know, it's very important that the people we have named in this episode that you don't. You know, find their addresses, find their personal information or anything like that. You know, that's really a bad thing to do. That's what it's a bad. It's a bad use

Simone Collins: of already strapped resources.

Like, when we had CPS come to our house, all I felt was just mortified that. This could be helping someone else. Like they could be helping children who really needed help. And they were sitting there, you know, they had to go through our entire house, go through our fridge, go through everything else, you know, like, and they knew it was fine, but they had to come out because they were, we, you know, people reported us so much.

So yeah, don't, don't play those games. You're, you're not just [01:46:00] hurting the people involved. You're hurting the local government. You're, you're draining resources and goodness knows we don't need any more of that in this world. So. Thank you. And when am I making you for dinner tonight?

Malcolm Collins: Do we, we still have some meat left over from yesterday, right?

Simone Collins: No, I don't think there's, but I can make you more with less penang sauce this time. So I know it

Malcolm Collins: was very good. And I absolutely love your pie.

Simone Collins: And did you want that with cornmeal muffins?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, cornmeal muffins would go great with that.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Cornmeal muffins, so people know this is slow cooked beef with penang sauce, slow cooked until it's like a mush, right?

And then penang sauce, so it's like a forever soup meat with a lot of vegetables in it. And then we're going to put that on cornmeal muffins. And then for dessert, describe the cake you made because it's so good.

Simone Collins: Ooh, we can put the recipe in perplexity for a pumpkin cake because we had bought a bunch of decorative pumpkins and I just cut them open with the kids and we made

Malcolm Collins: Nothing for free at a local [01:47:00] fair.

Simone Collins: Yeah, we got them for free to local fair. So that's perfect freebie pumpkins to make that we have no we we harvest our food from local events and Yeah, just ask perplexity to make recipes for what's in the house. And so we made this with a buttercream frosting because we didn't have cream cheese in the house.

We have lots of butter and it is, they are amazing. So this is for our daughter's birthday. So one of the, and you

Malcolm Collins: made the frosting from scratch too. Yeah. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: I will share the recipe for both. For the pumpkin cake and the buttercream pumpkin frosting, highly recommend. They're really good. And I worked at a cupcake shop for like a year.

I've, I've had a lot of cupcakes and a lot of cake, a lot of cake, and it's really good. So AI makes

Malcolm Collins: great recipes. Yeah. Oh, by the way, final thought before we head out, and I was just thinking like he's met these people, you know, like to say that they went to the far right because they lost all hope or something like that, or like we're alcoholics [01:48:00] or like didn't have a family.

Like he knows us. He knows that we chose to give up careers. Venture capital and private equity, good careers. You have a graduate degree from Cambridge. I have a graduate degree from Stanford to pursue this because we believe it's what's right. You can look at somebody like Elon, what he's given up to pursue this.

You can look at something like he lives a fun life. I mean, maybe it's fun. He worked for like black, right? He worked for some big organization like that. He left to go do this. A lot of us are actually Really high skilled professionals who very clearly left that life and the privileges that came with it to try to make the world a better place.

You don't see this on the left.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Bye. Love you.

Speaker 19: Wait, what are you wishing about? A whoopee cushion. Okay. I'm gonna blow it. Go ahead.[01:49:00]

Speaker 22: Why is

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