In this episode of Discipleship Conversations, hosts Steven Carrizal and Cheryl Russell are joined by Dr. Shawna Songer Gaines, lead pastor at Trevecca Christian Community and author of "Pastor as Midwife." Dr. Songer Gaines shares her unique perspective on how midwifery, one of the oldest vocations, provides a timeless and powerful metaphor for leadership that centers on service, empowerment, and following the lead of others. Reflecting on her research and experiences, Shawna discusses how midwives’ practices of supporting and empowering mothers can transform pastoral leadership, moving away from a centralized, leader-focused model to one that is collaborative and Spirit-led.

Listen in to gain an understanding of how pastors can adopt a de-centered leadership approach, emphasizing the importance of following the congregation's needs, encouraging active participation, and cultivating a supportive community. Shawna's reflections challenge the conventional leadership culture, offering a fresh, theologically grounded perspective that redefines success in ministry. Join us for an enriching conversation that delves into the themes of new creation, the role of the Holy Spirit, and the practical steps pastors can take to embrace a midwifery model of leadership in their churches.

Shawna Songer Gaines is a follower of Jesus, lover of books, runner of mediocre ability (at best), fan of gluten-free bakeries, wife of a hilarious pastor/theologian, mother of marvelously dramatic children, pastor of a uniquely diverse and intergenerational congregation, author of some books and Bible studies, and neighbor in the curiously creative city of Nashville. She currently serves as the lead pastor at Trevecca Community Church of the Nazarene, a congregation in the heart of Nashville, on the University campus. Shawna and her husband, Tim, have a passion for learning from and pouring into the next generation of leaders in the church. She earned her B.A. from Point Loma Nazarene University, M.Div. from Nazarene Theological Seminary, and D.Min. from Lipscomb University.

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