The SFFaudio Podcast #835 – The Aeneid by Virgil [Books IX – XII] read by George Allen (for LibriVox) and translated by John Dryden. This is the third third of the epic poem, books IX to XII(comprised of XII Books) running 4 hours 45 minutes, followed by a discussion of them. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Scott Danielson

Talked about on today’s show:
9-12, some stuff, make more notes, wash over you, the books are not mentioned in the original, somebody’s imposition, one giant scroll, the title names, not consistent, a handy way of telling you which book it’s in, Act 1, Scene 1, here we go, more Shakespeare, a very old book, Shakespeare is old too, not a lot of Christianity in this book, the morality in this book, punishments in their version of Hell, Elysian fields for other people, that underworld stuff, work their way into heaven, doing the penance, so wicked, back in university, The Odyssey, more memorable and more personal, re-read, first read, the end, Dido stuff, superpowerful, the kind of morality you see in Shakespeare, Macbeth, a character named Old Seward, Mcduff, Ross, Scottish guys, in the context, Young Seward, did and said, these are Christian Scotsmen, witches and fate, on the border of our reality, kings and lords, this scene in relief, Act 5, Scene 7, enter Macbeth, what bloody man is that?, good writing, make a hero awesome, maybe bad writing, how Macbeth has just one the battle, how many dudes did he kill, his sword is steaming, just gone through a man or six, straight outta Robert E. Howard, a killing machine, not the wisest man, a great battler, tied me to a steak, bear-like I must fight the course, not born of woman, no man of woman born can hurt you, enter Young Seward, tho thou callest, hotter than any in hell, the devil himself, nor more fearful, abhorred tyrant, THEY FIGHT, thou wast born of woman, swords I smile at, stuff happens, winning the battle, he’s the bad guy, Scene 8, Old Seward, so great a day is cheaply bought, your son has paid a soldier’s debt, unshirking station, then he is dead?, your cause of sorrow, for then it hath no end, had he his hurts before?, did he suffer?, aye on the front, stabbed in the front not the back, as many sons as hairs, so his knell is knolled, gonna cry, found out his only son died, stabbed in the front, stabbed in the back, running away from the field, plucked untimely from his mother’s womb, fate plays a big role, the twisted words of the witches, the martialness, the warriness, 1500 years before, book XI, just war, people getting killed, Camilla’s Finest Hour, imagining in ten years what you’re going to remember, definitely Dido, the underworld, the most interesting things, lotsa battles, heroic war, not the very very end, with Aeneas killing Turnus, makes that decision, does he make a decision, no mercy please, let me have it, thinks about it for a second, considering mercy, sees the arms, his belt, let’s him have it, avenging Pallas, hilt deep in his enemy’s heart, a groan of outrage down to the shades below, we were set up for that, this paragraph, Turnus Attacks, War Rages On, The Trojans Advance, Turnuns Vs. Aeneas, Enemy At The Gates, Captains Fight And Die, Camilla’s Finest Hour, The Sword Decides All, poetic rather than functional, the ending sums up the last half of the book, prolonged fight against Turnus, local guy, teams, alliances, rivalries, prepped, John Dryden, last 2 stanzas, the lofty chief, recreant thus, I know my death deserved, think o think, thou has a father once and hast a son, or of thy vowed revenge, my body void of breath, thine the royal wife, kill me if you have to, think of your father think of your son, this is awesome, I deserve it all, care for a parent’s grief, stripped of life, victor and vanquished, go no further down the road of hatred, particularly good or evil, bad guy vs. opponents, he’s from that place, the interloper, the insurrectionist, the foreign invader, he’s from Asia, this guy’ from Europe, I have a fate, it’s my destiny, our destiny, you’re not just the lord of whatever, or soon will be, Duncan gives him too more lordships, gets into his head, Lady Macbeth all excited, I would make a great king, read the witches properly what will happen, not what should happen, histories, tragedies, comedy, a comedy ends with marriages, everybody marriages, Julius Caesar, Twelfth Night, A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream, the gods are fighting, Juno, Jupiter’s like whatever lady, the fate, set at Rome’s founding, two fates going on, the history, the destiny pushed on Aeneas and his people by the gods, a weirder character, Macbeth is evil, murder people, including children, local people, we don’t like those people, allied, this girl they’re rivaling over, in parallel with parts of The Iliad, chases Turnus around ten times, Achilles, we really ought to be reading The Iliad first, sulking in their tent, more compressed, in the shadow of that, chasing happens, they’re connecting it to their origins, secretly we’re Trojans, reverse the history, we can’t be the defeated people, an Empire now, losers who had to run away, second to last stanza, our dude, you won the battle, pity the family of those who die, you know what it is like to lose people, give my dead body back to my family, despoil the body is worse, not let him be burnt properly, in the second to last stanza, the Trojan seemed to stand, rolled his eyes, his manly soul with more compassion melt, oh oh oh, these words have struck me, a casual glance, the fatal spoils that haghty Turunus, the anime version of this, traitor!, clad as thou art, Patroclus wears the armour of Achilles, the desecration of a body, fuckbuddy cousin, a graceful offering, at the word, deep in his bosom, disstained his arms around, the disdainful soul came rushing through the wound, walking out of the movie theater, mercy, the girl is yours, can’t we live in peace, it would be nice to be… the camera zooms in on the belt, drives the blade between the shoulder blade and his neck, stabbing the heart, a killing blow, not fade to black, straight cut to black, how would you feel, we’ve seen that, SEVEN (1995), not a good feeling, goad him into it, couldn’t hold himself back, a student watched Seven recently, never want to see it again, what’s coming, it’s horrible, manipulative, Brad Pitt, what’s in the box stuff, what does that make of Brad Pitt’s character, movie logic, a Seven 2, you’re not Aeneas, the streaming blood disdainful, dis-stain, contempt, the arms are the weapons, the battle dress, claiming to be mad about, a local king’s prince, the disdainful soul, that’s amazing, we’re supposed to think, a traitor in some way, Turnus is a hothead manipulated by the gods, you won, let this war be over, you’re gone, I kill you, let my hate win, the reason Macbeth is bad, murdered children in their beds, plagued by visions, the famous dagger scene, Is this a dagger I see before me?, allow the possibility that it is a cross, an invisible dagger, remind you of this killing, or Jesus, repent, a Christian layer to that, not just a random dude, the founder of Rome, an original sin for the culture of Rome, making slaves of people, slavery is preferable to genocide, especially the men, probably pretty bad, they’re valuable, you sell them, you can’t be manumitted by death, the bond put upon you by being the end of a losing people, a national epic, an Imperial Epic, this can’t be the way it ends, choosing to end it here is the surprising thing, the shock and horror of it is huge, the hotheadedness, nothing to do with destiny, personal action, foment a secret rebellion, he’s the rival mirror to Aeneas, really great, flaring up in fury, decked in the spoils, escaped my clutches, never, not as visceral, awesome, make you pay the price, blazing with wrath, hilt deep in his enemy’s heart, lifebreath fled with a groan of outrage, the disdainful soul, the Romans think this is completely justified, Arthurian rules, realistic, not justified, a modern hero did that, 24, Keifer Sutherland, running around, no bathroom break, no snack, torture works, he’s just going to torture a guy, are you seriously going there?, we don’t torture people, there’s no white hat here, they’re the bad ones, they’re the ones who hide behind women and children, our team vs. their team, the reason we’re good is we do good things, good guy bad guy is just gone, the Romans don’t have good guy/bad guy, they have pious, dutiful to their fathers, dutiful to the gods, humans killed, a spectacle, a lot of pathos comes out of the deaths of these humans, major takeaways, this death, just beautiful when Camilla dies, protected by Diana, the huntress, goddess of the moon, Book XI, she lost her grip on the reigns, slipped down to the ground, neck drooped limp, a groan of outrage down to the shades below, 8 stanzas from the end, tugs at the spear, stands fixed in the deep wound, fighting like a superhero, the wingshaft predestined to the deed, the yew, the far distant horns on either side, the fatal arrow flew, zing!, sounding dart, felt the point with his heart, the conquering damsel, amazed by the language, high vocab, their leader lost, more on their speed than on their strength rely, take their wounds behind, he doesn’t care that his son is dead, only that he was brave, the slackened bow, the rotten ground, the rampires, the trembling matrons, rend heaven with female shrieks, a mingled multitude, then in a fright, the vanquished cry, tis terror all within, slaughter all without, the Latian virgins valiant with despair, poles sharpened, drew her bow with a vengeance, down or up, Cynthia’s maid, she wrenched the javelin with her dying hands, the steely point remains, agonizing pains, the Romans love gore, broken glass, Die Hard (1988), steps on the broken glass, one “fucker” per movie, pg-13, the bad guy who is bad, deceitful, not a gore movie, no nudity almost, fake swearing, stylized, no gore, the Romans loved gore, Ben-Hurchariot scene, guy gets run over a few times, the gore is a feature, she staggers in her seat with agonizing pains, up to her face, a gathering mist o’erclouds, he swims before my sight, fly with speed, my charge succeed, the town relieve, another breath/soul things, sliding sunk upon the plain, her open hand forsakes the rein, she pants, the lingering dude, I’m still alive, I’m quite burnt, 17 bad guys he shoots, this is the opposite, short and more short she pants, Miles Dyson in Terminator 2, lets go of the explosive, she’s panting in her death, the mind her passage from her body flees, plumey crest, her struggling, to Stygian sound retires, awesome, they fight, Donalbain is slain, the level of camerawork here is hardcore, hardcore gore, increases the tragedy, increases the pathos, women described as beautiful, beauteous, that’s even worse, Book X, plucked it out, advancing on the margin, the clowns, an omen of the fight, he first in open field defied the prince, opened wide, Lichass, from his naked mother, sacred to Pheobus, from biting steel freed, pulled out of his mother with pincers, not far from his was Gyas, with monstrous bulk, no valour nor herculean arms availed, toiled, writhed his dart, received his doom, beardless bloom, cur’d his love of boys, seven bold, his mother’s care, turned aside, spears being chucked, Cydon, courted Clytius, a pedophile, obscene lust, the united force, a random little thing, not how the Greeks are doing it, Achilles the great hero has a boyfriend who’s his cousin, the Romans: pedophiles should be killed, random list of guys getting shot, you can miss so much, moral progress, you could make the case, human sacrifice is bad, animal sacrifice is less bad, giving up meat for lent, gambling or smoking, no animals were hurt, you can make the case, regressions, we don’t do torture, enhanced interrogation, the Philippine war, in the text there, Nietzsche, slave morality vs. master morality, turn the other cheek, the reason that the Romans are ripe for takeover by Christians, a lot of slaves, mad at moneylenders, the Prince of Peace, take control of the Roman Empire, instead of having their piety be how many sacrifices, their obedience to the moral code of Jesus, not a slur against Christianity, popular among the slaves, they know what suffering is, the power of the story of Jesus, a lot of attention, the force argument, we have better weapons, better organized, the right, just a fact, why this book is so weird compared to Shakespeare, strongly obvious, Odysseus’ goodness comes from being tricky, knows how to get stuff done, journey home, dudes courting his wife, killing spree, he’s good at it, not very Christian, very good, do The Iliad some day, Beowulf, Sir Gawain, the Saga of the Volsungs, all the dwarfs that are in the Hobbit, Fafnir, Smaug, a talking dragon there is, digging a lot of this older stuff, Ballantine Adult Fantasy books, The King Of Elfland’s Daughter, The Charwoman’s Daughter, The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson, The Blue Star by Fletcher Pratt, The Sundering Flood, The Tritonian Ring by L. Sprague De Camp, most of them are old, The Wood Beyond The World, it’s got a map!, mountains, rivers, a sea eventually, Paul would not like the geography on this, Lilith by George MacDonald, a port city, put in a request, 10 hours, what’s Lilith about?, considered among the darkest, most profound, a cosmic sleep that heals tortured souls, a Christian universalist, sold, a lot of good George MacDonald, new to him, Reading, Short And Deep, The Green Door?, Odd John, Christmas break, 2008, waiting for us for all these years, duties at church, eucharistic minister, wine for the kids, assume that it is red wine, less magical, less substantial, less transubstantial, going through some Simak, Project Pope, shocked at how good it was, idea idea idea, selling me, let’s book it, the Pope part of it, gonna become infallible, feed me nothing but facts, Special Deliverance, A Choice Of Gods, fund with doubles, two short stories, Cordwainer Smith, Leigh Brackett, A Game Of Rat And Dragon, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, Frank Herbert and Tolkien vs. Asimov and Clarke science fiction, rettitled Dragon Queen Of Venus, find and replace, this is just a French Foreign Legion story set on Jupiter, why is this terrible, why does this work?, a young lady who likes dressing up vs. a CIA agent who wrote Psychological Warfare and loved cats, a fun talk, easier, Dick and A.E. Van Vogt, men’s magazine stories, didn’t love Gods Of Mars, not a series guy, editing today, The Idiot, a short story about a robot, left it off the schedule, Partner’s Payoff, WWII veteran, get robbed, coffee, more editing.

Posted by Jesse Willis