Sean Illing is joined by John Gray, political philosopher and author of the new book, The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism. They discuss Thomas Hobbes and the origins of liberalism, the current state of democracy, and the very uncertain future of the global liberal order.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: John Gray, author and political philosopher

References: 

The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism by John Gray (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes (1651)

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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