As day jobs go, one could do a lot worse than composer. Classically trained at Yale, Ellis Ludwig-Leone spends much of his time writing music for institutions including the New York City Ballet. By night, he’s the principal songwriter and ostensible leader of San Fermin, whose indie-inclined chamber pop has earned a steady following and critical acclaim for more than a decade. Next month, the will release Arms, a rawer, more immediate album dealing with – among other topics – art and the end of relationships. Ludwig-Leone joined us to discuss the two sides of his songwriting life. Transcript available here.

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