In this conversation recorded live at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Kelly explores two fundamental human drives with panel moderator Dave DeSteno (host of the podcast How God Works) and author of the new book Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose, Jennifer B. Wallace - our deep need to feel valued and our instinct to create. Jennifer shares her research on "mattering" and why so many people today feel invisible, while Kelly makes the case that creativity isn't a luxury but essential for our wellbeing. Together, they uncover why showing genuine interest in others matters more than praise, how economic pressures are driving perfectionism in families and the surprising ways that making things with our hands can change how we see the world.

Kelly and Jennifer Wallace will be together in person, in New Caanan, CT on October 29th, 2025. We'll add the link for the event here in the show notes as soon as it becomes available.

Special thanks to our friends at the Aspen Ideas Festival.

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