Steve Hewlett talks to James Harding, editor of The Times and Alan Rusbridger, editor of The Guardian. Harding reflects on his evidence to the Leveson inquiry this week, Rusbridger on the falling sales which have forced The Guardian to reduce "pagination." Supplements have been folded into the paper and the sport has returned to the back page instead of being in a separate mini-paper. We also hear why Associated Press has opened up a bureau in North Korea and we discuss the growing controversy over intellectual property on the internet. The producer is Simon Tillotson.