Our friend Rock is here!!!!!!!! We met recently and it feels like a family reunion! This week on Our Friendly World with Fawn and Matt, we veer away from what most people in the podcast world normally talk to Rock (Rockwell Felder) about. Rock is not only the co-founder and CFO of SquadCast, co-host of the podcast “Between Two Mics”. He’s a martial artist, a beautiful and kind human being, and a sweet friend! How do we deal with conflict in life (friendships, work, life…) We discuss martial arts as a means of communication, harmony, connection, and peace. Our talk is more than it seems. We discuss conflict resolution in today’s world; physically, spiritually, as well as emotionally. We start with a quote from Rickson Gracie (“Sometimes, you don’t have to win, you cannot win. But that has nothing to do with losing.”) and share thoughts on winning, losing, learning, and growing in life; at work and in relationships. Rock shares his experience with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, on and off the mat. Matt shares his philosophy on learning Aikido and living his practice at work. Fawn shares how she got out of a hairy situation at a Hollywood club and how she got out of a bad situation. We share different ways to flow with conflict. Thank you, Rock! You are such a lovely guest!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rock’s info: Twitter: https://twitter.com/rockwellfelder?lang=en LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rockwell-felder-cpa/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rockwellfelder/ Podcast: https://squadcast.fm/between-2-mics/ Website: https://squadcast.fm/       #Squadcast.fm #podcast #between2mics #CFO #Nuggetofwisdom, #SantaMonica, #Aikido, #crosstraining, #martialarts, #BrazilianJiu-Jitsu #RicksonGracie #wrestling, #respect, #honor, #losing, #winning, #beingagoodstudent, #communication, #family, #goodteammate, #kindness, #conflictresolution,       TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Fawn: [00:00:00] Okay. Hello. Welcome to our friendly world.  Nugget of wisdom from Santa Monica. And thank you, Matt, for reminding me, because I totally forgot about this. I had a completely different nugget today. nugget of wisdom.  I cross-trained, for a while, Matt was a pure heart, strict Aikido but I cross-trained. And I went through so many different schools at the same time. Matt: [00:00:28] You did wing Chun. You did the same time. Fawn: [00:00:33] You did keep some of it away from some of the teachers because they would punish me. Matt: [00:00:37] Probably go, do I get on the corner? Fawn: [00:00:42] That's true. I would get sent in the corner, like a bad student because one of my teachers in the beginning found out I was going to this Aikido school at the same time. So he was, , Not happy. Well, he was never mind. It doesn't matter. Okay. So in one of the schools, we were training, we were, , [00:01:00] sparring back and forth, and then it was time for a demonstration. In this particular school, we really cross-trained. I mean, it was a little bit of everything. Like if any situation comes up, whatever you get thrown, you gotta  roll with it. And we were really delving into Brazilian jujitsu. And  also  pure, like old-school wrestling, you know, just wrestling. One day the S uh, teacher, so, well, I was gonna say, like, there were three. In commands. I don't know how to say this, but there was obviously the founder of this particular school and he was out of the country for half of the year. And then there was his partner that would take over. And on this day it was the guy that's like underneath, like the major Maurice. Remember Maurice, Maurice was white. Maurice [00:02:00] was like this, a grand champion world champion karate person. Anyway, I'm not, I'm not being very technical, excuse me, but whatever , we were learning or particular move that when you're on the ground, the teacher was telling us, okay, now I'm going to do a lock. And when I have someone in this position, there is no way there is no possible way this person can get out of it. That's just the way it goes inconceivable . So, and you know how you have your like best friends in school? Mine was this guy who was chosen, Matt: [00:02:40] wasn't he like a collegiate wrestler? Fawn: [00:02:41] Yeah, he was. So he knew a little something about locks and being down on the ground completely, completely. But he was so, um, uh, what's the word when they're not like egotistical, he was so humble. Yeah. And just such a sweet person. Anyway. [00:03:00] So of course he got chosen because whatever. So he got chosen and he's on the ground. And now they're both in a ball, the teacher and my friend, like in a ball. And then the teacher was so happy. He's like, now look at this. There's no possible way Antonio could ever get out of this lock. And then Antonio, I remember it perfectly. Antonio just looked at me and he,  we had this communication between us because we were  sparring partners, but he just looked at me and I'm like, Oh, like I knew something was gonna happen. So he smiled at me while he was all wrapped up in a knot. Like it looked like to me like, Oh , he's not, Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. Sorry about the language. But it definitely looked like, okay, Antonio is not going anywhere, but why is he smiling at me like that? And so all of a sudden in a split second, he had the teacher, like it was reversed. The roles [00:04:00] were reversed within a split. Second Antonio had him. So what's the nugget of wisdom. Pray, tell, I mean, there's so much because. Help me out Matt, but like one of them is I I'm, um, I immediately thought even the teacher can be wrong. Yeah. You can never be cocky. Never, never assume anything. Never assume it's the end of anything. Never assume that you're on top forever. What do you, what would you, what Matt: [00:04:34] I mean, you're nailing all the points here, hon, so yeah, no, absolutely. Fawn: [00:04:39] Alright Matt: [00:04:39] right. So as well as, you know, have some fun Fawn: [00:04:41] with it before we go on with the show, I do want to let you know, we have a special guest here with us who is quietly patiently looking at us and he's very patient. Anyway. I want to start with some quotes today's episode. We're talking about conflict resolution. [00:05:00] How can we get around situations is how do you actually want Matt: [00:05:03] to introduce our special Fawn: [00:05:04] guests? Just give me a second. I have a flow. I have a flow. I promise, I promise. I want to start off with some quotes. I think you have some quotes too, right? Okay. You have one quote, which is perfect because I have a few and we're just going to roll with it. Ready? The first quote is someone not from the martial arts. I don't know if he actually did, or if he don't look at my notes, I don't know if he was actually in the arts in that way, but anyway, he's an amazing artist from history. He said "when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. "That was Jimmy Hendrix. We also have in the same kind of vein is this "Angry people want you to see how powerful they are. Loving people want you to see how powerful you are." [00:06:00] That's Chief Red Eagle. I have two more. " If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other." Mother Teresa. And the last one is from our founder,  O Sensei, who said, " As soon as you concern yourself with good and bad, you know, the , quote, unquote, good and bad, I'll start over. "As soon as you concern yourself with good and bad of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter .Testing, competing with and criticizing others weakens and defeats you." Oh, sensei. And now I'll let you say your quote. Matt: [00:06:47] Well, this is, I think, intended to be more of a martial arty kind of a thing. So, um, "Sometimes you don't have to win, you cannot win, but that has nothing [00:07:00] to do with losing." And that's Rickson Gracie that's that's about as official Marshall, as you can get, uh, Gracie style jujitsu, Brazilian jujitsu. Fawn: [00:07:13] So friends out there, you know, sometimes when we have guests on, I feel a little bit guilty because it looks like, wow, we have all the friends from around the world joining us. And what I want you to know is that like I often say now, I'm not sure if you've listened to every one of our episodes, I will scroll through my phone some days. And will just feel like the loneliest person in the universe, because sometimes I really need to talk to someone and I feel like. I can't reach anybody. There's nobody I can call. I have no one. And it's a lie. It's a lie that we tell ourselves. We're actually all interconnected all the time.  No one is ever alone. [00:08:00] And I look at the word alone. If you just get rid of one letter, it can, it can, it can look like alone. But if you bring back the one letter, it's all one, you know, if you put all those letters together, my making sense. So having said that sometimes I feel guilty when I have guests on, because it seems like we have so many friends, but I want you to just kind of follow them, follow me. And that our guests today is a friend, but I, we just met. We just met. I was at a conference, a virtual conference this year. And I heard him speak just for a few minutes. And he said, one tiny little thing, one tiny little detail. And I immediately was drawn to him. I felt like, Oh my God, there's a connection. I'm really intrigued by this human being. And he just mentioned that [00:09:00] he misses the martial arts, you know, this year in quarantine that he hasn't been able to train. And I'm like, okay, well, he's like, he's one of us, you know? And so, uh, I got a hold of him and he's actually this amazing, brilliant, successful person.  Our friends Rock Felder. Rockwell, we call him Rock and I think that's okay. Is that okay? Rock? Rock: [00:09:24] It's totally fine. Thank you. Fawn: [00:09:25] He's co-founder of Squad Cast and, he's here with us today. He's here right here. Please. Welcome our friend Rock. Rock: [00:09:33] Hello,, thanks for having me. Thanks for that wonderful story and those great quotes. I enjoyed, uh, being a spectator, having like a first row ticket to that. So thank you. And thank you for having me. It was great meeting you at PodFest and this is the power of podcasting you meet people, and then you get them on your show and start building the relationship from there. Fawn: [00:09:51] And it's not just podcasting. I mean, this is how it goes. And I want to show people as crazy as it seems, you know, you just, you [00:10:00] see a spark or you feel a spark or you feel anything. It could be the tiniest thing, Oh, someone has the same hat or someone's wearing a certain color. But if you just act on that instinct and start a conversation, you can even start a friendship right away. Who cares? It's that easy. And I think in our society, that's what we've forgotten is how, how, like little kids used to do it. And even now I think this whole concept of becoming friends and really relearning the art of friendship. I feel like , it's been lost. And now it's also been transmitted to the younger kids who had no problems going up to someone and say hi, and saying, you know, hi out of the blue and just making conversation in the sandbox. You know, and I've just noticed because we of course are parents now. And I've noticed that at the playground that the kids don't even do that anymore, because they're pretty much following the [00:11:00] lead of their parents and people are just not making friends the way they used to. And anyway, what I'm trying to say is if you could just follow my lead, I just literally just met Rock and I feel this kinship with him. And I have no doubt and I'm just going to roll with it. And this is really the first time we're talking. And as I'm doing all the talking right now, but we want to, we want to really talk about you and your background in martial arts. Even if it doesn't matter what stage anyone is at, but just the study of the martial arts is fascinating and there's always so much to learn. There's always a lesson and today, what I need help with is remembering how we can maneuver around or through conflict. And like, going back to the quote you just talked about. I mean, it seems simple, but [00:12:00] my brain kind of is pausing right now because there are so many ways we can go. It's hard for me to talk when I'm looking at you. No, no, no, Matt: [00:12:07] absolutely. I totally, I totally understand that. I mean, it's, it's a quote that I just want to sit here and unwrap for a while. Fawn: [00:12:13] Can you just repeat it one more time. Matt: [00:12:15] "Sometimes you don't have to win, you cannot win, but that has nothing to do with losing." So that's like starting to open it to me says just because you didn't win doesn't mean you lost. So, you know, um, and certainly again, I love to refer back to, um, um, Oh my God. I know, I forgot the name of Musashi's book. Oh my God. We talk about that all the time. Yeah. The full name. Should I go run and get it? Should I go five rings? No, no, no, no. Um, so I also think about the book of the five rings and one of the precepts is distinguish between loss and gain in [00:13:00] worldly matters. And that ties to this as well. You know, just because somebody won doesn't mean they took anything from me doesn't mean that I had to give up some part of myself. I didn't have to necessarily lose for someone else to win. Rock: [00:13:18] Yeah. And it's something that's pretty core to, uh, it's funny that it's Jitsu practitioners, the one with that quote, because that's absolutely been my experience as a practitioner of jujitsu. I've only been training for five years, which for me personally feels like a significant amount of time. But compared to a lot of the other people I train with, it's relatively young in my martial arts journey or career. , but like getting used to losing is a huge part of it because, , You're A: you're just not very good at first. And really the only thing that other people have on you is experience like, cause I'll be getting beat up by people of all ages, all sizes, male, female, [00:14:00] whatever, like smaller than me, bigger than me. Like I'm used to getting my butt whooped almost every day. And you know, when I do win, it, it certainly feels good, but it's not because I beat somebody it's more so that I was just executing the technique much better and that it's showing that I am learning and progressing, but trying to get a way of that concept of like losing or if someone wins, therefore you're losing and it's, uh, it's, uh, it's been pretty profound for me to learn in jujitsu because it's also translated, I think, to life where I started being more comfortable taking risks and, , not being afraid to be outside of my  comfort zone as much because in jujitsu, you're almost always uncomfortable, especially when you're first starting off. And then you just learn that your body is so adaptable. And so, , it's just amazing what the human body is able to  get used to like things that used to hurt and be painful aren't on a physical level. So I just feel like so many of those lessons can [00:15:00] transcend into your personal life as well. So that's why to me there's been, , nothing like jujitsu or any kind of martial arts in my opinion of like making me a better person. And so I'm definitely a big proponent of it, but also understand that it might not be for everybody getting, you know, choked and your, your, your limbs pulled on is a bit strange. I will admit that, but, , for me and the people that I've been around, , it's an incredible, incredibly open and very humble community, even though  what we're practicing day in and day out is like fighting more, more or less. It's, it's a very interesting dynamic, but, , I find these people to be very low, key, very relaxed, very like easy going , and very, um, they want to like help. They want to help you get better because they were, we were all, we all recognize ourselves as that first white belt who first steps onto the mat. I think we all  identify with that person cause we were all there. Very few people actually come in and are good right away, which is [00:16:00] something pretty, pretty magical about it. Because for me I've never been so terrible at something, but so excited to learn it. Usually things that come difficult to me, um, I have to figure out, well, what's the benefit here? Why do I want to get good at it? And for whatever reason, I was like, I just want to get better at this. This seems incredible. And uh, it's been an incredibly rewarding experience, you know, even in the five years that I've been doing Matt: [00:16:22] it. Yeah. Certainly it's one of the things that, , that I came to because the trick is, is it seems like people typically, you know, people I run into in the office or wherever it's like, they can't do something if they're not brilliant at it because they want, because unfortunately, , the fact that you sucked at Brazilian jujitsu when you started, well, that must mean you suck at everything. Well, no, come on. But I think people go carry forth that kind of mindset that says, , if you're bad at one thing, you must be bad at all things. Because if you're good at one thing, you must be good at everything. And it's like, okay, if I've never picked up a guitar, then don't expect me to be Jimmy [00:17:00] Hendrix, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it's that whole learner's mind coming into it. And you have to have that kind of presence of mind to say, all right, I'm going to be bad for awhile. I'm going to work really hard and I will be less bad tomorrow, hopefully, but we'll see. Rock: [00:17:19] It's so true. And that's another thing I've learned that's been fascinating is like some of these people, I only know through the perspective of jujitsu. So some of these people, I've never even seen them with shoes on, which is kind of not a unique way to get to know somebody. But what we learn is, is they may be a beginner in jujitsu here where I'm, you know, five years ahead of him, so to speak, but then find out that they're some expert at something else, whether it's running a business or they have, or there's actually quite a bit of musicians that we train with, who they've toured the world doing uh, I think it was piano. One of this one gentleman did another, one's like a really great guitarist and they're like a black belt, but in their respective fields. [00:18:00] So it's just so fascinating getting engaged in the type of people that get attracted to, uh, martial arts has been one of the surprising factors, but like I said, you're getting to know people on such a different unique level. It takes time to kind of pull back those layers to understand what they're like in their personal life. But on the mats, I know them as, Oh, this person's really good on the ground or this person is like a, has a wrestling background. So they're pretty, they, they, they, uh, they have brute force. Um, so it's just a fun, fun way to really meet people. But yeah, for me, , it's something that I just look forward to training for the rest of my life. That's one of the other things that's been really cool is seeing that you can do it like till you're in your 50, 60 seventies. Like that's what, uh, others, uh, kind of, it's kind of like an exercise and fitness, but it, it, it's so much more beyond that as well. And the fact that you can do that for so long is incredibly special to me, Fawn: [00:18:55] it is, it is so deep. And when you take it off the mat and you [00:19:00] live your life that way, that's what it's all about. I mean, that's why it's such a beautiful art form because it's not just about the locks. It's not just about the technique. It's the technique of pursuing life and pursuing relationships. You know, I had, um, this college professor who, always had the most interesting insights, but one day you could always tell,  he was going to tell you something because he would just look out in outer space and like, Pause for a few seconds, but he told us, you know what, you guys, I miss being on the bus. The bus is the only place like a crowded bus where you can literally just put your head on someone's shoulder and not have it be creepily awkward. You know, that human beings are meant to connect. Human beings are meant to touch. We need to, to [00:20:00] embrace one another, but  in our society and our culture, we have our bubbles. And if you step inside my  bubble, it's just, it's awkward. Right. And I know, or in a time where everything is just turned upside down and there's a lot happening. And there's a lot as a woman, I'll say like, finally, like women are definitely setting boundaries. That it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just as far as human beings  learning how to connect and putting your hand on someone's hand for comfort. I feel like it within a school with an a martial arts school, it can be any style, but the fact that you're learning to dance together in a way, you know, it's that back and forth. And it's, it's a, uh, it's on a psychic level. It's on a physical level, it's on an emotional level. It's it has to do with [00:21:00] ego. Non-ego like all of that is brought together on the mat, in these amazing courses or classes or schools, whatever you want to call them, whatever style of martial art, I think much like religion, they're pretty much all saying the same thing. It's about respect, right? Respect and honor, and the flow of life. And. Help me out. Why are you staring at Matt: [00:21:30] Discipline? And Fawn: [00:21:31] of course disciplin Matt: [00:21:32] kinship and yeah. Respect and honor and decency and all these wonderful things. Rock: [00:21:38] Yeah. I'll tell you what, for me that, , something that's been a bit that I've  figured out during my journey was when I first started, I was like I said, very terrible and really just passionate about getting better. And so I was really  focused all on myself and  getting myself better and, Oh man, I can't believe I'm still terrible. I've been doing it for three months. I should be better now kind of thing. And then I [00:22:00] started just realizing, and I think I probably heard it on a podcast of someone talking about just focusing on being a better  student to your sensei or to your coach, like making them  proud to have you as a student; them looking forward to training you because it's, it's a pretty big deal to have someone that has, that is a black belt,  giving back all their knowledge to , these students , because  there's no  guarantee that I'm going to be dedicated or show up, but yet they're  expected to treat everyone as if they will be. And I think that, and then they just are expected to show up pretty much every day. They don't get a lot of days off their time away from the mat. And not that I've ever heard, any of them want that or asked for that, but I just think it's a huge deal that they're, they're given so much of themselves it's back to us students. It's incredible. So focusing, changing my focus from being just a better student,  to  my instructor, but then also focusing on being a great training partner for all my peers and that really focusing on again, like having them looking [00:23:00] forward to training with me, whether it's in sparring or just drilling moves and stuff like that. Like just focusing, not so much on myself, but just like on the different parties, uh, if you will, that are part of a jujitsu class. Like, um, I don't know. I feel like it made the experience a lot more rewarding and easier because I wasn't just so, like, it was all about me. It was really just about more people and that my contributions were to something greater, I guess. , and I don't know, it was kind of liberating. Fawn: [00:23:29] I totally understand that. Matt: [00:23:30] Absolutely. Honestly. And you know, for me, , even from the beginning I came into Aikido, I saying, , I don't like the way I'm taught, I converse with people. I don't like, I don't like, you know, it was more about, rounding myself out as a person and getting those rough edges worked off. So, you know, if you can take what you, what you're doing with in Brazilian jujitsu, and you take that through to, let's just say work, let's just leave it at work for a second. Boom. I want to be a good teammate. I want to make [00:24:00] sure that on my team, you know, my, my little I'm a, I'm a full-stack software developer, so my programming team can move forward, you know? Um, yeah. And in point of fact, , it's kind of funny, cause I just started yet another new job. My company got acquired by another company, but anyways, um, and, and I'm, I'm meeting all these new people, right? And, you know, it's, it's my goal just to be a great teammate and you know, I'm, I'm getting that back and it's, it's really kind of nice cause everybody's going out of their way to explain how much they're enjoying working with me, because I like to believe I'm enjoyable to work with. So taking it off the mat to me is, is absolutely key in getting that positive reinforcement that you get in, in school as far as like, you know, this is a good thing. And then carrying it outside of it is to me. That's that's the bliss of it. Fawn: [00:24:52] And I think that, yeah, it's, I mean, bottom line martial arts or no martial arts, we're all here to [00:25:00] serve one another. We're all here for each other. We're here to help each other out. We are really that connected. So if I'm hurting here, guaranteed, you're hurting over there. If you're hurting over there, I'm over here on the other side of the planet, I can feel your pain.  I believe that  it is just that,  close knit that it we're here together. Everything affects everything else. We're, it's part of the we're part of the entire universe. We're all interconnected and I forgot what I was just going to say, but Matt, like, but that's also one of the things that I learned coming into the Aikido school where we met Matt is because I was cross training because I was like going, doing all these other crazy styles that were very much like just, I was learning to break [00:26:00] things, you know, and break people. And when I walked into this school over here where Matt was, it was like, I was blown away by their kindness. Not that my schools were not kind. They definitely were very respectful and lovely actually. But I came in like a wild devil,like I came in, Rock: [00:26:24] What a discription! Fawn: [00:26:26] Do you know what I mean? Rock: [00:26:27] I think I do! Fawn: [00:26:27] I was out like, I wasn't out of control, but I was there to create ruckus because that havoc, I w I mean, I was ready. I'm like, come on, come on, come on. And they were, so they were such great hosts and that's what Matt, Matt was the teacher's pet, but he, he taught me like, the world is your home. And, and that's what we talk about on our podcast all the time is the world is your home and everyone is your guest. So treat them as an honored guest in your [00:27:00] home. And if everyone did that, and that's what we all do in the martial arts, but in life, I mean, that's the way it should be. And that's one of the lessons I learned from my Aikido. Thank goodness. Matt: [00:27:11] Yeah, certainly that, that was a keen focus on our school was just, I mean, obviously your first time you walk into any dojo, you know, Everybody's super happy to have you there. And it's an amazing thing. Doesn't matter what style this is. I've encountered this in any number of different schools. They're excited to have you there. They're excited to share what they're doing. They're excited to explain, you know, where the focus is and isn't so yeah, no, it can be an absolutely miraculous thing. However, topic of the show, Fawn: [00:27:40] I know I was going to go there. Can I bring something up? Matt: [00:27:42] Yes ma'am. Fawn: [00:27:43] Okay. So where I was going to take it to, is obviously conflict and conflict in real life, but like as martial artists and from whatever, we've been able to gather over our studies, if we could share how we deal with conflict.  I have, I think one or two ways. I'll go [00:28:00] first though. Okay. So. Example first. I remember. Do you remember this Matt? We went to, so we lived, obviously we're from LA. We went to a nightclub. Do you remember that with Jim? Jim was one of our black belts from Matt's school. Matt: [00:28:17] Careful. We ran into a minor celebrity. I wouldn't mention who he was. Fawn: [00:28:20] I'm not gonna say who he was, but I was going to talk about that. Matt: [00:28:23] Yeah, no, I know you're going to talk about him. I just want to make sure you don't Fawn: [00:28:25] so, okay. They were at this fancy schmancy Hollywood hip club, right? Loud, loud music, um, whatever. It's a club. Hollywood. And I was with Matt and our friend, Jim, who's a black belt. And so, you know, always ready, like always like for anything to show up and because I was cross training and it was something that I did not learn in Aikido, I was learning my own style through the  the karate and the Jiu Jitsu and all that. And the [00:29:00] judo I was learning to totally get out. Sorry, I just knocked the mic. I was learning how to get out of really bad situations, especially being a small, small woman. And so here we are aware of this club and somehow I got separated from Matt and Jim and somehow I don't know how it happened, but I ended up talking to a circle of people. I really, I'm not a celebrity type person. Like I don't care. Usually I really don't care. And I didn't know who this guy was. It was. Somehow I found out later Matt: [00:29:32] that's how minor of a celebrity he was. Fawn: [00:29:34] No, it was a  big celebrity, but I had never seen him. He was a radio personality, right? Yeah. Matt: [00:29:41] But again, strictly Z level okay, not, Fawn: [00:29:44] he was pretty big and he definitely had the ego and he was also big as in like physically big. And I was the only one in that circle that was a woman. And I was talking to these people and all of a sudden, [00:30:00] and I don't know if it was from the alcohol or what, , I don't know if   he was under the influence of something, but, or maybe just his poorness poor as in personality. But he grabbed me by both of my wrists and pulled me to him. He was sitting down and I'm really short. So now we're idle eye to eye and. I had two reactions, one, I couldn't believe my good fortune that here's a learning experience. Like, okay. Aside from the mat, can I really get out of this situation? Like real life situation and Holy moly, this grip is really tight. And at the same time I looked over and I see Matt and Jim leaving their drinks. And , in my mind of frozen snapshot of them,  leaving the table,  in mid pace to come rescue me. But I think I nodded to you guys, like, hold on a second. , like I nodded to you, cause my hands were  [00:31:00] locked. And I was  within this guy's um, like I was really like, he had me in tight.  What do you call those snakes that wrap you and squeeze you. Yeah. And so I remembered very calmly what I was taught,  what we practiced all the time.   My eyes went soft. So I just got out of this wrist lock and believe me, this guy was really strong and huge. And I remember the look on his face. Like he was so shocked and then I started laughing. I think I ran away. Did I run away? Matt: [00:31:36] I think, no, no, no. I, we, me and Jim came up behind you. Oh really? Yeah. We were, we weren't looking at him very kindly. Fawn: [00:31:45] I got out of it myself. Matt: [00:31:47] Right.  Fawn: [00:31:47] I remember his shock was how did she do that? But anyway, I was going to say my way of conflict is always 1) surprise; because you never think I'm the one that's going to knock some [00:32:00] kneecaps out. Right or because  I'm so soft-spoken usually, you never expect me to get upset or people assume I'm not educated or they assume whatever racially that  whatever preconceived notion someone has, they think I'm that. So that is how I maneuver through conflict because I have that element of surprise because of the person's ignorance. And so that's how I deal with conflict is like, I don't know. Is that, is that a good example? Now I'm  rethinking it. That's how I've dealt with it.  If the person doesn't have enough respect to be reciprocal in  the respect that I'm giving to them, then I just walk away as soon as I'm safe and I don't want to create war, I'll have to walk away and disappear forever. That's how I've handled conflict. Rock. How do you do it? How do you, what, [00:33:00] yeah. How do you deal with conflict? Rock: [00:33:02] Yeah, it's, it's definitely, I think, evolved and changed and I don't know whether jujitsu has something to, has it had a direct impact on my feelings towards conflict, but I would say that I start, I feel much more confident and I do think jujitsu has helped with that confidence when it comes to conflict.  I just find myself  being much more proactive, a big part of it though, is to think first and , not act first and then think because generally that initial action is probably at least for me, , not the best choice. And so I wanna, keep a cool head and not resort to any assumptions or any kind of a fight fire with fire, so to speak. But, , I think lately it's just been more so aware that , No conflict is not a bad thing. In fact, good things can actually come from it. And, , probably the worst thing is to avoid it because especially depending on the circumstances, if it's with a significant other or [00:34:00] family member or coworker,  avoidance has never really the answer cause it usually just bottles up and sometimes, eventually just spills over and becomes a much worse than it ever needed to be had it not been addressed and resolved right from the beginning. And I do feel like, again, I just keep coming back to that; I think jujitsu really helped me deal with that because when I, once I was starting with jujitsu and really finding a passion for it, I was also, , having more demands put on me for work and was more into  a supervisor manager role. And so I had to  let people that I was responsible for , either offered opportunities to be supportive and help them and train them, but also be a little firm as well when they weren't holding up their end of things. And, , definitely not something I wanted to do. I typically like to lead by example and, , if I'm asking someone to do something  I'm not asking something, I wouldn't be willing to do myself. That's,  definitely my style of leadership. It really resonated with me a lot watching "The Last Dance" documentary that focused [00:35:00] on Michael Jordan and the Bulls. And he was always talking about that. Uh, he being Michael Jordan that like, yes, I was hard on my guys, but I would be in the gym just as long, if not longer than all of them. And I do like to see myself as being that type of leader, but you do have to be firm and potentially uncomfortable. And what I learned with just, dealing with it, learning how to manage it and not shying away from it, which again, those feelings really coming up to me when I was going at jujitsu, it was very uncomfortable when I was first starting, but I just learned that,  usually things work out a lot better than whatever you have it in your mind, working out as, and, , I think that's helped with significantly , because conflict, I think we look at it as a bad word and it doesn't need to be. It doesn't have to, it doesn't mean that you and that person are in opposition. It just means that maybe you're not understanding or not communicating. And so I think for me, it's really helped me be a lot more compassionate and empathetic and just improve my communication and my [00:36:00] patients because, um, yeah, it's usually not as bad as what we make it think. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I Matt: [00:36:06] totally agree. Conflict to me is you're kind of stripping away all this, veneer, all this stuff that you're like hiding and you know, it's like, you really upset me Rock. I'm having we're we're now having a real conversation, as opposed to before. Maybe I'm just like, Oh yes. What? Yeah, whatever Rock. And you know, I'm ignoring you,  I'm now present and I want you to be present. We can be present and we can maybe sort something out. Um, but we can't sort it out if we're not willing to be real with each other. Rock: [00:36:38] Yeah. It's almost more respectful than again, you think like someone  being in conflict with you is like a bad thing, but if anything, if they're asking for you to, Hey, this is how I want you to communicate to me, or this is how we can improve moving forward. That's actually coming from an incredibly, respectful and honorable approach than trying to bring someone down. I just think [00:37:00] it's not something that we're unfair. Unfortunately, I wasn't taught that it's something I've had to learn and adapt to. And, um, yeah. And luckily I think more and more of these types of conversations are being had and I think people are a little bit more willing to be, transparent , but still it's still like for whatever reason in us as humans, it just like, you feel it, Oh, this is uncomfortable. I don't want to do this. But I've just  learned to embrace it and you get better at it. It is like a muscle, just like, I imagine,  negotiation is kind of a muscle. It feels uncomfortable, but the more and more you do it, the more comfortable you become and learn to, , just embrace that aspect of, of living. And so conflict is just one of those things that, unfortunately, I shouldn't say, unfortunately, because it does lead to , some growth, but, uh, it is a part of life. Matt: [00:37:47] Yes. Fawn: [00:37:48] So now I'm realizing I sound like a total idiot, cause I'm like I got out of it and I I'm gone. I will disappear, which is totally going against what I normally say [00:38:00] is I love you the way you both just. Spoke about it, but I realized I sounded terrible Matt: [00:38:08] interaction, honestly, there. Yeah. I Fawn: [00:38:10] said disappear. I, you know, and, and what I promote, what my whole mission is, is to have people  become comfortable with the uncomfortableness of disagreeing all the time. And especially because of the state of our country and the state of the world, it is the perfect time to have conversations , and look at conflict as a beautiful thing, because it is  the mess that has been growing over here in the corner, in the dark molding and getting disgusting. And we're finally seeing it. Everybody's seeing it. We're trying to clean it up, , like when you beat a dirty rug, all the stuff starts flying in the air and it looks like chaos, but you're cleaning up.  You notice the chaos, you notice the dirt and it's [00:39:00] time to fix it. So that's where we're at. But I I'm saying I feel bad as it's, because I do disappear when things get so bad guys I'm gone, Matt: [00:39:11] but that's the key you said so bad. Okay. What Fawn: [00:39:14] do you do when it's, you're both stuck and you're both in a lock? Matt: [00:39:19] There, again, it depends, you know, so bad. Yes. If I have somebody diametrically, opposed to me, who's screaming at me and not going to listen to what I have to say, that's it I'm I'm done! Bye  Fawn: [00:39:29] But we can't  be done. Look at the state of our country. Right. You know, Matt: [00:39:32] we need to get to a place. That's,  a whole bigger topic that we'd have to get to a place where we can respect each other and we have to get to that place, but we can't get to that place. If I'm going to give you the microphone and you're going to scream at me and I'm just going to sit there and take it. Fawn: [00:39:49] No, Matt: [00:39:49] you know that that will not get us there. What will get us there is for you to go off into your neutral corner, calm down and say, okay, I'm ready to have a dialogue, [00:40:00]  and we have to get to that place. But again, sometimes with conflict, it's important to just,  break the hold and walk away. Fawn: [00:40:06] Sometimes it's a spiritual thing because I was describing how he was staring at me. And for me it lasted minutes and I'm sure it lasted half a second. That when I got out of that lock and he looked at me in that look of shock, I didn't say anything. I may have giggled,  because I was proud of myself for the martial arts move that worked in real life. But I was thinking, I think I was communicating to him. That's not how you do. Right. Don't touch people like that, but that's just it. And I think I zapped him. Do you know what I mean? Matt: [00:40:42] But  it's the way, O Sensei would talk about : you're walking across the mat. Okay? And he would do this. And like, there would be like five guys grabbing on him and trying to stop him. And he would, it looked like he literally just kind of like shrugged his shoulders and they all went flying, because he was on his path and  he wasn't [00:41:00] going to, in that moment, he wasn't going to change their minds. He wasn't going to affect change. He was going to walk his walk and if they wanted to talk to him later, they could do that. But there are those extreme moments where you have to just stay on your path  and be strong on your path, you know, there in the world of business. And I know you've probably run into this to Rock, but there are those people who don't want to listen. They don't want to do the things that they're supposed to do, and they don't want to help the team. There may be out for themselves, or they're just out to take you down. There's not a lot you can do about that other than say, you know, I'm sorry, but this isn't going to work other than showing them who you really are and that you want to help them. What else can you do? Rock: [00:41:42] And what I like about your stories, the fact that, like you said, I was thinking that as you were telling the story, I was like, it sounds like things were playing out over the course of like five minutes, but it probably happened in milliseconds. And the fact that you were able to  think that way and stay  calm and collected and reflect on [00:42:00] your training. And it. And use it within such a short period of time is, I mean, that's the whole self-defense aspect of, , martial arts at play right there. And, um, I think it's a great story. And, and cause you never really know what you're gonna act like. I mean, yes, we go and train and if you do this move, I would do this. Or if they did this, I would do that kind of thing. But you really never know what's what, what your brain and body are gonna do when that's actually happening in a somewhat threatening position. So, um, yeah, I almost wish I would have had a good example like that to think of. I can only, you know, most of my conflicts do come from like business and personal life, which I guess is a good thing because I don't need to begin into street fights or have guys grabbing my wrists. But, uh, still it's, uh, that's what we trained for is for,  to be prepared in events like that. Fawn: [00:42:49] Yeah. And Oh sensei like are the founder of our school always said that. But basically the training is make sure your circle is pure. So you don't even attract that to [00:43:00] you so that you're always walking in peace. The last thing we ever want is that violence. So make sure that you're clear wherever you go, your mind is clear. Your body's clear, your emotions are clear so that your circle is clean. Matt: [00:43:20] Yeah, no, no, no, no. . Absolutely. And honestly it's about, um, nevermind. I totally forgot what I was Fawn: [00:43:25] gonna say. It's it's also like we have to, I know it'll come back to you. It'll come back to you. Let it go. Let it go. And I'll come back. But while, while no, don't let it go like that. Um, now I was, no. Matt: [00:43:41] Okay. Now I remember so to me, , martial arts, studying Akido, it gives you a framework in my mind, at least because,  if something is going to come at me spiritually, energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally, you know, I'm aware I have options. I have [00:44:00] options of different ways I can handle it, different things. I can do different mindset because I'm grounded because I've been through interesting;I played through interesting scenarios. One of the tests at my school was there was basically, there was against all the rules of Aikido; there was a kata. Okay then, which is just a stylized series of moves. And in a  test for one of the belts, you had to do the same move for the whole variety of attacks because it shows you, it doesn't matter the technique you use, it's not about, Oh, well, if he grabs my wrist here, then I can put my hand over it and I can bend it back. Doesn't matter. It's about the energy. And it's about the fact that, you know, that there's always a way through, and then you carry that out off the mat and into business. And you realize there's always a way to make sure that,  you can walk out of a scenario and not lose because, but that has nothing to do with losing. [00:45:00] Rock: [00:45:01] I'm so glad you remembered because that's a great way to articulate it, that that whole thought about options. Cause that's absolutely true. And I think options  make you feel liberated because maybe you're more in control. Right. That's usually when we would, it reduces down to when we, as humans start to flip out as we feel this lack of control. And so yeah, learning that you have options in conflict on, on the mat, but off the mat too, is, uh, is a great way to feel like, yeah, you're a little bit more in control and , not out of any options. And one thing you also said that I thought was really one of the things I get out of jiu-jitsu that I never anticipated and I don't know if it's really talked about, is this  sense of play that this is where this is, that's my time to  be silly and play and let loose. And I do think that also helps me keep a clearer head when I'm going about my regular day in regular life, and,  able to think clearer when it comes to different types of conflicts or uncomfortable situations [00:46:00] cause, , I'm a lot more relaxed. I use that,  the training  as a way to  exercise that play, conflict management, stress and all that stuff. That's where I get it out of. And so, yeah, it's, uh, it's something that, again, I don't, we don't tell adults, like we think of play is like not something that we can do because we're, we're not kids anymore, but like that's probably what's missing, right. Well, no, that's, Matt: [00:46:21] that's where you and I differ because I own my inner eight year old. I play all the freaking time. I really try hard to play every day. Um, you know, do my coworkers see that. Well, as a matter of fact, yes they do. Because that's part of what I bring to the table. That's part of me being a good team member is that, you know, every day I'll joke, like, you know, in any way I can respectfully. And that's always, the key is be very respectful. Fawn: [00:46:46] But so you guys, of course, like I always take it to universally. I take it globally. I'm looking at the state of the world, I'm like:  guys, how are we going to fix this? Because [00:47:00] like I said, what do you do when it's just one side versus the other? Once again, I knocked my mic. I'm sorry, (Rock says it's all that Karate chopping) RIGHT?! , I miss it so much. Um, what do we do? What do we do when we're at is, is the word stalemate. Matt: [00:47:19] Stalemates a good word. Fawn: [00:47:21] How do you say it again? Matt: [00:47:21] Stalemate. Fawn: [00:47:22] Yeah. Okay. That, so, okay. I know this is a, I want to get really deep here, Rock, can you , come back. And can we continue this? Cause I know you have, you have a full, you can go for a few more minutes, but like, so I'm, I'm just trying to think, how can we solve the world's problems? And I feel like in us coming together or friends coming together and when we discuss things, I do believe that we are actually creating energetically solutions. We're actually clearing the air. If you will, in some ways, when we're having  these discussions and I've been thinking, [00:48:00] what do we do now? Because honestly, the world seems so, so, so divided that there's like a huge gap between even the division. It's like a huge Canyon. What do we do now? Because. We've all been in a lock there's no, we're at a point where you, I don't know if we can find common ground anymore. Do you know what I'm saying? You guys, and so I don't know. I'll just, I'll just put this out there. If you guys have something to add to it, maybe that would help, but I, I guess I'm going to take  back to emotion that when I was sparring with one of the heads of the school, she was like, she wasn't the head, but she was definitely the top notch student with the most amount of stripes on her black belt. And I was, I was sparring with her and I've said this story, I'm sorry, guys, [00:49:00] those of you who've listened to every episode, but here's the second time I'm saying this now, but we were sparring one day and she kept knocking me on my head. Hard hard. And at this school we didn't have pads. We didn't have a cushy, uh, springing nice floor. It was all hardwood. And  we just went for it.  If you got thrown boom hard floor. So we were sparring and , she kept knocking me on the head one after boom, boom, boom. And each time I felt I was getting more focused and more energized. And then all of a sudden she's she kept repeating that I was losing. I'm like, is she trying to taunt me? Because all right, then I CA I felt like my energy was building. And because my energy was building, I was like, I'm going to win. And what was happening was she kept [00:50:00] saying, you're losing. And then she finally stopped. As she's still clocking me on my head. And she was so fast. I couldn't even block like, and some of them I did block it. I was like, yeah. Yeah. And she's like, you're, you've lost. I'm like, no, keep going. I have not, I have not lost. I'm not losing like you, your rage is building. You're getting angry. And when you get angry, you've lost. And it took me a while to really understand that. And I think if we take things too personally, if we can leave our emotions out of it, I think we can get out of this mess in the world. If we can not get angry, if we could find a way to become detached in a way from what we're all dealing with with this, with everything, with all the crisis of everything, [00:51:00] if we can somehow have a soft eye approach to it. Like you can see everything, but you're not focused on one thing and you can not take a personally and you cannot get angry. I don't know. I think that's the only technique I know of right now to get through conflict. I don't know. Matt: [00:51:21] See for me, I think what we have going on is we've got a lot of voices talking and there's a lot of people with a vested interest in,  spurring us all on to fight. You know, as far as I'm, now we're talking more about politically and the political divisions that are that exist. There are people who are making money off of our divisions. There are people who, , want to goad us into fighting and, and we go to these people who are goading us and say, Oh no, no, please help, help give me more energy so I can fight even harder. I think if we can just be, if everyone was dealing with the [00:52:00] same stack of facts is a good place to start, Fawn: [00:52:03] that will never happen. Matt: [00:52:04] That's it? I'm saying it's a good place to start. Well, because one side says, Oh, but this is going on over here. And the other side says, well, I've never heard of that, but there's all this stuff going on over here because the bullies aren't telling us the whole information, they're telling us the selected pieces to keep us fighting. Fawn: [00:52:23] And that's where we lose. If we constantly fall prey to emotion like that, it's a base, energetic, low level vibration. Matt: [00:52:35] Yes. Fawn: [00:52:35] To get angry or to take things personally. Matt: [00:52:39] Yes. Fawn: [00:52:39] But if you can just not even deal with facts, like that's what I meant about having the soft, soft I approach. It's like, let's just, just operating from a heart level. Purely energetic level Matt: [00:52:55] And that will work if the other side isn't goading you, Fawn: [00:52:59] but that's [00:53:00] just it. You have to not let it get to you like that. Matt: [00:53:04] And then they'll start with the dealing off the deck that says, well, you don't even know what's going on because this is happening and this is happening and this has happened. And then you feel like a dumb Rock: [00:53:13] person who makes it so confusing. Yeah, absolutely. Matt: [00:53:17] So you have to have your stack of facts and they have to have their stack of facts. And all I'm saying is if you both have the same stack of facts, you might might be able to find truth. Rock: [00:53:28] Like you said, I think it's a good place to start. I think there's absolutely. And this is the unfortunate thing is people that are, uh, that benefit from us being divided and angry and, um, upset. It's, uh, it's pretty, pretty sad, you know, but, um, I think to answer your question for me, I think it's just more of that approach of  trying to be a good student to my coaches and trying to be a good teammate to my peers. I think just taking [00:54:00] that to every aspect of life and not just keeping it on the mat, but like, I think Matt, you had a good example of being that way at , your work environment. But what about our neighbors? Like, you know, a lot of my neighbors don't like saying, hi, I can't help but say hi to them cause it's like, I live next to you. Like the least I could do is say hi, we don't have to like each other. We don't have to be friends, but I got to say hi, like I got to acknowledge your existence, your presence. Like to me, that just seems fundamentally not to. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't know, just trying to be like that towards everybody I guess. Fawn and Matt: [00:54:36] Be a good host, Rock: [00:54:37] Be a good host, tying it back to the mission. See, I Fawn: [00:54:42] knew, I knew I loved you rock. I knew it that instant. I, this is why I love you. Rock: [00:54:49] Well, thank you. I didn't expect. Anybody to really understand my frustration or, uh, you know, that's been for me the biggest and I guess unfortunate, but you [00:55:00] know, the, the pandemic in that sense, like taking me away from jujitsu, something, I loved the people that built unique, , relationships with like, that's been pretty, pretty difficult, but I don't expect anybody to understand that that, because most people haven't been in that environment haven't trained and they probably think it's a little weird, cause it's obviously the most unsocial distant thing you can do. Um, but yeah, certainly been missing it. And uh, so thank you for understanding. Fawn: [00:55:27] Oh, I, I understood completely. It was like, you read my mind because I mean, I haven't, I haven't practiced in years because I can have my reasons and my excuses, but I miss it so much. And I miss not only the art of just working like that every day. But I miss the relationships. I miss that contact, you know, the lessons, the, that high you get. It's amazing. It's [00:56:00] and you Rock: [00:56:00] two met via martial arts Fawn: [00:56:02] that's we fell in love. Yeah. We have a whole story behind what lock. It actually like happened. Rock: [00:56:09] What rock unlocked the, uh, the relationship. Fawn: [00:56:14] Totally. Because my heart was a little bit locked. I was in total denial at that point. Like, love is not here for me. And, but yeah, there was, I don't want to let this episode go. I feel like we're, we're just touching on it and I don't agree with you, Matt, about the facts and the facts, because I feel like. In a way I'm not I'm okay. This is going to sound terrible. But I was going to say, we have to get rid of the facts and just, that's not w we can't deal like that anymore because we've tried, this group wants to act with these facts and this group with these facts, it's, we're, we're always going to be in the same lock. We're always going to be [00:57:00] in the same. Matt: [00:57:02] Right. But you described a scenario where we were all locked up. You mean you're right. The right thing to do is for both sides to leave the mat and never come back to the mat and just talk to each other, like Fawn: [00:57:13] regular, and that's not going to happen either. Um, because something else needs to happen before that. What are we missing? And I think I'm just going to go back to it. You guys, I think what we're missing is the anger issue. You can't like that black belt was telling me you're losing because you are getting angry. You cannot get angry. Matt: [00:57:36] You're emotionally connected. Yeah. We have to become. So if we all deal with the same stack of facts that aren't twisted by either side, then maybe,  Fawn: [00:57:47] how can we close this off? Matt: [00:57:49] I don't want a really good time. Unfortunately, Rock: [00:57:51] we want to keep having a good time. I hope you're having a good Fawn: [00:57:54] time. No, I can't see Rock that's bothering me. I want to see his face. Matt: [00:57:57] You know, actually I was researching you and [00:58:00] every, every single podcast was like, Oh yes, we're talking to rock about how to monetize . And I was like, okay, I don't Fawn deals with all the monetization of the podcast. I was like, no, what's it. Like, I don't care about monetizing and, and all the rest of it. I just want to know who this guy is. So I've had a really good time, like, like exploring that a little bit with you. Rock: [00:58:25] Thank you. Me too. I don't get to, like I said, I don't, I don't get to talk about this stuff very often. So it's actually like, I've been waiting to talk about this stuff because it is, I think a little bit more interesting to than just like the podcast stuff. Like yeah. That's what I do. And I look at love to talk to podcasters all day and help them with their shows. But, um, there's other stuff I'd like to talk about too, right? Matt: [00:58:49] We, we like to be whole people and talk about all of our passions. Fawn: [00:58:53] Yeah. And can you, um, so I, I will have information on Squad Cast in the show notes, [00:59:00] so people can go to you.  But before we go, Let's just make a date. Like let's make a play date. What if, what if we do a round table and we invite some of the Gracie family in, can we do that? Matt: [00:59:16] I don't know. I I'd be, I would be so terrified that I would say something that, that would embarrass myself. I am not even kidding. Like I'd mispronounce something or I'd make an assumption. And then I just feel so completely. Fawn: [00:59:28] But babe, that's why people don't make friends because they're so scared of this and that let's just, let's be down to clown, like you say, but I mean, obviously with respect, Matt: [00:59:39] right? I know. I just feel like, you know, I can, I can punch a little above my weight, but not too far, you know, who Fawn: [00:59:45] else would be great to talk to? Is the cockroach, Matt: [00:59:49] the Roach God. That's another one. I would just feel like I would just have to say yes, sir. No, sir. And that's about all that I could get into a conversation with him. Rock: [00:59:58] Little  star struck. Fawn: [00:59:59] Well, [01:00:00] what was his name was St. Pierre or St. Pierre de do you know if George? Matt: [01:00:04] Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness. Rock: [01:00:07] Cockroach. He still trains like every day, all the time. Like he's, he's not a fighter anymore, but he, Oh, he is. Matt: [01:00:14] He's he's he's the man in the same way that the whole Gracie family is the man. I mean, there are certain jobs unassailable just figures, frankly, as far as I'm concerned.   Fawn: [01:00:24] But you guys, what do you think let's, let's create a play date and continue this conflict resolution stuff about the world, from the perspective of all the various difference leaders in the martial arts, Matt: [01:00:40] that would be a lot of fun actually. Fawn: [01:00:41] And in, do you want to do it? Yeah, I'm Rock: [01:00:45] serious. She is, by the way, I have not, I have no doubts Matt: [01:00:49] that she has no fear. She punches way above Rock: [01:00:51] her weight. Cut. That makes you special. Fawn: [01:00:59] Okay. [01:01:00] So I I'm going to be on it. So there you go, guys. Let's do it. The conversation continues. Matt: [01:01:08] Okay. Fawn: [01:01:09] All right. If you want to hear more about Rock  Felder, Rockwell Felder, we have information in the show notes in the show notes and probably our website go to ourfriendlyworld.com. Rock. Is there, do you want, do you want to just tell our friends how they can get ahold of you? And do you want to tell them anything about whatever  you want the world to know right now via our friendly world? Rock: [01:01:33] Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you again so much. I had a great time, uh, again, talking about topics and subjects that I don't normally get to talk about when I'm on a podcast. Cause usually my experience with a squad cast where we help pod-casters record their shows remotely. Usually that's the topic that we focus on. And certainly, always happy to talk about that, but talking about some other deeper issues and issues that can connect to martial arts and spirituality [01:02:00] and all that stuff has been a great time for me. So, uh, if you want to connect with me and talk more about podcasting or martial arts, best places on Twitter or LinkedIn, uh, Rockwell Felder. And, um, yeah, I guess just the last thing is like, if you are, uh, if you have any type of like, Um, aspirations to try out jiu-jitsu or any type of martial arts and are a little intimidated by it, just know, , everybody is, I think when they first start off. I certainly was, I still get intimidated when I'm going to like a new school, , just because  everyone does it  little bit differently. And of course you don't want to, you want to still like, do your best and stuff like that. Um, so it's, it's okay. You're not alone, but I think what we've talked about here is that most schools, most people in the martial arts community are going to be extremely welcoming and want to just help you out. And so if you have any like aspirations at all, like tinkering around in your head, just like. Try give that, put that investment into yourself and give it a shot. It may not be for [01:03:00] you, but, uh, if it is, it could be life-changing like it was for me. So I highly encourage anybody to give it a shot. Fawn: [01:03:05] Yeah, we did. And it's also such a thing for a great mental health. It's not just physical. I mean, the, you just feel so good and you feel uplifted about the world. You really do. I don't know what it's kind of like yoga, like you do yoga. You're like, why am I so peaceful? All of a sudden you get the same effects as a yoga person doing martial arts. We're not about beating each other up. It's about communication really? And connection. Oh my God. Okay. Friends. Talk to you in a few days ROCK!. Oh my, well, hold on, Rock! . Thank you. Thank you for joining our friendly world. And it it's such an honor to, I'm just going to say, put myself out self  out there and put Matt out there. It's an honor to be your friends. Um, and we're so grateful that you are here. Thank you [01:04:00] so much, Matt: [01:04:00] indeed. Thank Rock: [01:04:01] you. Look forward to continuing the friendship. Fawn: [01:04:03] Awesome. Okay. Talk to you in a few. Day's everybody. Bye.