Photographer and field researcher Michał Rokita joins Matt to discuss his rare and meticulous efforts to document one of the world’s most secretive military sites: Area 51. From hiking remote peaks in the Nevada desert to capturing panoramic images from over 20 miles away, Michał shares what it takes to legally photograph Groom Lake from public land. They explore the history of the Dreamland Interceptors, the challenges of desert spotting, and the moments he’s witnessed — stealth fighters, unannounced landings, and one night when his presence may have scrubbed a secret test flight. It’s a real-world look at Area 51, far from the conspiracy theories, and the dedicated hobbyists preserving its history from a distance.



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Find Michał’s trip reports, photos, and more about Area 51’s history at Dreamland Resort: https://www.dreamlandresort.com/team/michal.html

Follow Michał’s YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@n01_b4_flash-ev5jb

Follow Michał on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rallyracingvideo



Read Dreamland: The Secret History of Area 51 by Peter Merlin: https://schifferbooks.com/products/dreamland

Listen to Matt’s interview with Peter: https://audioboom.com/posts/8434360-the-secret-history-of-area-51-with-peter-merlin



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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Michał Rokita



Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode unpacks global events through the lens of intelligence and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and analysts.