David Brooks is a columnist for The New York Times. His books include “The Social Animal” and “The Road to Character.” E.J. Dionne is a columnist for The Washington Post. His books include “Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith in Politics after the Religious Right” and “Why The Right Went Wrong.” This interview is edited and produced with music and other features in the On Being episode “Sinfulness, Hopefulness and the Possibility of Politics.” Find more at onbeing.org. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.