Throughout history, crises and disasters have always catalyzed new strategies to make the world cheap and safe for capitalism. We are seeing this during COVID through the blatant disregard for the lives of essential workers and the refusal of wealthy nations to lift COVID vaccine patents which restrict poorer countries from manufacturing their own supplies. In this 2-part Conversation, we spoke with Raj Patel and Jason W. Moore, who co-authored the book, A History of the World in Seven Cheap Things: A Guide to Capitalism, Nature, and the Future of the Planet. In our conversation, Raj and Jason explore how capitalism relies on cheapness, the era of the capitalocene — which the authors prefer to the more common term, anthropocene — the myth of overpopulation, which has its roots in racism and often borders on ecofascism, and much more. You can read the full transcript of this conversation here. This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.