Jesse, Will Emmons, Cora Buhlert, and Jonathan Weichsel talk about WHO? by Algris Budrys

Talked about on today’s show:
WHO?, as a short story, Fantastic Universe, expanded into a novel, there was a movie adaptation, not a great movie, on the 2nd or 3rd tier of famous science fiction novels, a work of its time, interesting, set in the future, a world government, NATO is in charge, DNA testing, alternate history, political, based on the art, Frank Kelly Freas cover, a cyborg smoking a cigarette at a desk, the image for the cover, Algis Budrys was in the office, 2 other Algis Budrys stories, William Scarf, a story behind the cover, Frank Belknap Long, replace people’s arms, a man who looks like this, interesting, ruminating on the cover, the original short story is a very condensed version of the longer novel, unnecessary, extreme hot take, this isn’t science fiction, a science fiction idea in it, psychological realism, identity, weird neuroses, exposed to women, during COVID, Fauci: I am science, exposing ourselves to the Russians, Terence, semi-interesting, professors and a class of people, a problem in science, peer review, spoiler studies, peer reviewed studies, got to establish a fact about the world, physics teacher, the universe is a giant machine, the analogy he goes for in the book, not exactly how science works, a wrinkle or a metaphor, iron out that wrinkle, curvatures, you’re a blind scientist examining an elephant, what this story is meta about, Cold War, him as a young guy, doesn’t know why he’s dating her, good psychology, a suspense story extended into the length of a novel, going to conferences, CIA guy, FBI guy, a fictional agency, future western block, ruinous to the central idea, can’t be fixed, revelation scene, this ancient history, Stalin, know what Stalin means in Russian, Man Of Steel, just sort of fails, Rogue Moon, WHO is to blame?, Jonathan’s take, aggressively bleak, unlikable, The Journey Of Joenes, insoluble logic loops, counter sniper at the Trump rally, one guy on the roof, what if it is not an assassin, if he’s not an assassin, spy stories, what spies are really like, unjustified, the last 30 minutes, if Philip K. Dick had written this, not the takeaway, society and fucking up, no way of knowing what they have, machines, a living machine, approaching those problems like a machine, ironically makes him more human, his farm, very interesting and bored at times, submissions, extremely dry, nothing fun in this book, dim view of humanity, quick, smart guy, self insert, the immigrant, Martino and Martini, the movie condenses the novel, doesn’t warrant an expansion, badness that makes it lame, a good and bad book, not supposed to used lame anymore, crippled, euphemism treadmill, is the government going to stop it, don’t tell him not to do it, not a boring book, get on with it, fundamentally broken, we needed to get there, in outline, proves himself a very quick guy, smart, sharp, bad writer, science fiction of the era, not a pulpy problem, famous covers, a problem with the structure of it, over written, could seek a broader audience outside of science fiction, a goal that you have, a spy novel, James Bond novels, John le Carré, Len Deighton, K-88, Neptune, what this thing is, a classic McGuffin, Ronin (1998), classic pulp fiction suitcase, the other technologies, replacing a person’s arm, replacing a person’s head, lesbian lady from taxi driver, the stakes are small, a Guy de Maupassant-style problem, how much aggression, hysteria of the McCarthy period, a common theory, “the fruit machine”, gay pornography, sincere in his fear, flaming homo, died of AIDS, blackmail, eliminate anti-gay laws, doing science wrong, scientists are interested in science, taking the world apart and putting it back together again, a meta-criticism of science, The Man In The High Castle, yarrow stalks, forward and back, a muddle of almost really great, a thesis that kicks something into orbit, a frontier story, point of view and the mystery, flashbacks of young Martino, subverted, information, his roommate, ambivalence, valence shells, atoms sharing electrons, a balance scale, harassing a good man, the investigators never learn of the flashback scenes, something to do, as a film, 6 – 7 hours, could have been excellent, very bleak, just following orders, nobody is tiring very hard, bureaucratic incompetence, if Heinlein has written on this, realistic book, contemporary people on twitter, reaction to realism, condemned, Kafkaesque, The Lost Honour Of Katharina Blum by Heinrich Böll, points of order, was Germany now Russia, Lithuania, middle ages, kingdom of Poland, consul, 1991, New Jersey, alienated, Baltic states, student exchange, Scandinavian, Ukraine War, ancestry, peasants and workers, Mare Ibrium, extensive treatment, teams of excellent specialists, brother democracies, explosion, Antarctica, friendly, someone else to play chess with, all about Europe and control of the Earth, caused by the book, Budrys’ politics, on the side of the West, a dim view of the West, he doesn’t like the Soviet Union either, doesn’t like humanity, an outsider, a country that doesn’t exist anymore, he’s smart and that’s isolating, pushed by his family, he’s more robotic, Isaac Asimov’s stuff, Susan Calvin, turned out to be gay, I can fix her, asexual, different, weirder, in the coffee shop, somebody he wouldn’t be serious about, partnerships, romance, doomed teenage love affairs, people like that exist, what’s the judgement on this book, Will will allow it, doesn’t need to be fixed, isn’t going to be better, better at 3 hours, any story is better if you cut it in half?, play Paul, room to breathe, the breathing was rather robot, an atomic pile in my chest, suffocating, a guy who literally can’t breathe, give it its meaning, dark, depressing, heavy, not science fiction, doesn’t have a thesis, tropes, guy who builds a robot in his basement, something to do with the structure, don’t like to read things that aren’t science fiction, spy fiction, who’s story is this?, there is no main character, Sean Rogers, Sam Rogers, Steve Rogers, Uncle Sam, there’s a character named Willis, he’s the man of steel, Heinlein novel, Will Is, derivation of William, Silesia, old German name, to piss off those people, Weichsel, Vistula, name is a river, we’re done with this book, Jonathan did an excellent job, it wasn’t really good, interesting, annoyed, but why? WHY!, if Asimov wrote it, ship of Theseus as a man, it doesn’t make it bad, what Budrys is interested in, reading that in, the last line of the book, I haven’t really lost that much, no friends, very sad, the emotional stability, we’re supposed to read that as him not wanting to reveal himself, those extended scenes, it could be this it could be that, a comedic scene, it becomes The Lives of Others (2006), stasi, in six months, the shownotes, upcoming, realism, Milton Lesser, history and crime fiction, Rendezvous With Rama, The Green Queen, Worldcon, Glasgow, hotel hotline, twice as expensive, Rotterdam, before Trump was semi-assasinated yesterday, Barrett Brown, hard to recruit you, incredibly unpopular today, drug use, his relationship with his mother, early life and education, an indigo child with an alien soul, poet laureate, newspapers, Ayn Rand and Hunter S. Thompson, freelance writer, griefer in 2nd life, troll you in games, let penises rain down, Anonymous, We Are Legion: The Story Of The Hacktivists (2012), alternative to Wikileaks, pranks, fucked around and found out, a domestic Assange, prison diaries, playing D&D with hardcore criminals, terrific writer, mental health, heroin, smoking crack, induced a manic state, suboxone, accused his friends, complex post traumatic stress disorder, very knowledgeable, justifiably paranoid, My Glorious Defeats, Blackstone, George Guidall, from Downpour, Grover Gardner, do more voices, any kind of muppet, Elmo, people like Elmo, Sesame Street, Cookie Monster, any kind of voice, a woman’s voice, a Will voice, Will’s accent, talking to locals, Riya’s Foundling, cringey, caressing this cow, great steak one day, Benjamin Lay, wrong about all sorts of stuff, meat is delicious and we should eat it, fake stuff, mincemeat, trying to help animals, chop up nuts, tofu, not healthy, lentils, convenient, a faith, a bad mix of bad ideas, supplements, dairy, there are arguments for eating that are not eating meat, fiber, gall, denying nature, natural herders?, co-evolving, the sheep dog industry, Sirius was a good man, a good boy, farm vegetables, farming practices, tomatoes, apples, bred to have a high yield, greenhouses, highly processed food, like crack, this is the best experience in my life, white man’s version, something psychological, McDonalds, from soy to meat, McDonalds had to go through a lot of reforms, people are confused, anti-fast food, Chipotle, listeria, memo, give them extra food, extra meat, you’re going to photograph them, look how much food I got?, meal on Instagram, cafeterias, Automats, home packed lunches, restaurants is a big game, if the game is rigged don’t play, everything is rigged, in Russia, the very old people, young people went to restaurants and bars, a cafe is not a restaurant, a Disneyland experience, pick from the food on display, restaurants are a scam, cafeteria, waiters and waitresses, cartoon characters, properly subservient, hospitals, on a ship, entertainment, play the game, pretending you’re a rich person, for families it makes a little more sense, relax for a night, a pathetic solution, family restaurants, the upperclass experience, fuck your crème brulée, dropped in a foreign city, they have food there and you’re hungry, the Koreans, little doors, bubble tea, an asian thing, a solution to a lack of employees, cook the food on your table, getting the grandma experience, not chains, mom and pop serving food, Los Angles relatives, Sherman Oaks, Tony Danza and Shannon Tweed, pitch dark restaurant, order the veal, never left Jesse’s hometown, never been east of Alberta, a lot of places, wasn’t allowed to see the bill, the real fancy, everybody getting plastic surgery that week?, Howard Hughes style logic, too many mugs at Starbucks, money in the wrong direction, why does it matter, capital, Chinese dam video, oil exploration, Jonathan’s anthology, productive, a flower shop, the flower industry should be banned, keep it going, dry goods, if you’re not growing, aim for an equilibrium, Amazon or Facebook, supposed to put caps on monopoly, giant unregulated monopolies, start a private army and take land, explore space, Blackrock is taking Ukraine, an incorrect prediction, tell him to resign, he said, his wife said no, he’s the first black woman president, guy’s in a coma, why did you break that lamp, deep state conspiracy, the chief of staff?, Caitlin Johnstone, almost had two presidents with no brains, very Jesse, barn roof, not a tower, shooting at the wrong people, a no nothing clown, milking the cow, if the FBI listens to this podcast, the RCMP, jurisdiction, there are laws in Canada, cousin’s birthday, does the FBI have jurisdiction in Canada and Germany, international offices, the locally controlled police, they don’t operate in North Korea, Cuba, a sub-office in Vancouver, old pulps, Brian De Palma’s The Untouchables, Space Zine Tweets, covered by a labour union, representation without taxation, Indiana, a labour goon, Lupe Fiasco, an occupy the superbowl rap, shoot a rocket, how silly your job is, the full experience, Smurfette, I’m Will, strange man, I need to talk to you, a jarring experience, tried to turn Will into an informant, be buddy buddy, right wing militia groups, if they mean what they’re saying, a law student, the environmental law society, Lupe Fiasco had anti-American views, Reality Winner, NSA translator, Russian interference, The Intercept, guess who turned her in, concerns were raised, her real name, that’s what they were pushing, her interactions with the FBI, transcripts, her dog, power lifting, an amazing text, sources, gives Russia tools, generation of fake documents, contractors, Christopher Steele documents, Trump is Hitler, they’ll say anything, Trump is not Hitler, Qasem Soleimani, Obama assassinated regular Americans, chaos on the street, if Trump doesn’t win, if Biden wins, Biden won’t survive a second term, those directly around him, a nursing home, people decline, probably an issue, Robin Williams, Lewy body dementia, One Hour Photo (2002), stalker, small scale paranoia, Conspiracy Theory (1997), great filmmaker, a great screen presence, a great film director, Apocalpyto (2006), little town, strange movie, Cannibal Holocaust (1980), like Hardcore Henry (2015), Mel Gibson’s signature is torture, the pulled out the guts, RoboCop (1987) and Total Recall (1990), German censorship, the sex, bare breasts on TV, bothered by it, all chests, #BrassBra #FurDiaper, cult movies, sexploitation, Blue Movie (1971), ThePirateBay.org, DMCA shit, The Porn House Of Amsterdam, Flesh+Blood (1985), ideology, looking for sex, liberation, I do not care for sex, fascist husbands, a very interesting movie, Star Trek, Lemon Popsicle movies, Golan Globus, all the bloody time, Masters Of The Universe movie, Gail Simone, polyglot strategist, 1000 likes, very popular, mid at best, this is not an interesting tweet, 200k followers, why and how?, activist, feminist comics, fridging, algorithms pick something up, what’s really going on here?, books, nobody likes those, still interested in comics, weird things just happen, organic, push the heat button, cosplaying the whole Conan lifestyle, Conan Red Sonja joint story, ship is covered in guns, banal, the deep state of twitter, a psychology for a lot of people, I should be laughing, follower engagement, following 20,000 people, send out prompts, the hope of interacting, Glen Greenwald liked my dog tweet, to interact with people, feel like they’re friends with celebrities, help her career, X metrics, tiktok crap, translate into real life sales?, very young women, annoying, famous for not crying, Doctor Zhivago (1965), PulpCovers tweet: gay comics, ugh splat, why that isn’t a lot hotter, mentally modelling, what this stupid book was about, baffling, how mundane it is, aggressively contrarian, cimmerian vs. barbarian, that calculating, she thought that would make a good tweet and she was right, pretty good, are they?, Zub is not great at Conan, if you steal his words, Tower Of The Elephant, people are living in hope, Conan joins the Avengers, hung out with the Punisher, Conan travels to modern times, interact, Aliexpress, knock off toys, people like collecting things, how many times have people tweeted that before, I too get jealous, some of the best stuff ever written, David J. West is good at twitter, very piratical, six times more popular?, a collection of people who are adjacent to girl power, her base, a political following, pro LGTBQ, openly a feminist, Liberal American feminism, nominated for Hugo and Nebula awards, why people watch sports, how popular soccer is, easy to understand, every city has a team, patriotism, the idea of comics, an easier way to get their political message out, comics sales, Ms. Marvel comics, G. Willow Wilson, traditionalist community, teenage superheroes, blue heart and yellow heart, Scott Miller, Gold Key Comics, Conan Comics, Ahoy Comics, Anthony Di Simone, Paul Chadwick, M.R. James, F. Paul Wilson, toy collector fans, Dreamlander (Jason Thompson), SFSignal, and Paul, 4k accounts, bookshop, fairly famous, five comics writers today, people working today, change it to female writers, the poster girl, 10 years out of date, Vertigo, closing in on done, The Green Queen, say hi to Paul for us, bring one of your broken hugos, COVID stole a lot of things, all masks all the time, somebody is in your shadow, nobody else cares, Michio Kaku, angry, other emotions, immature, modelling women vs. modelling men, women are in iron masks, Lady In The Iron Mask (1952), Doctor Doom, jealous of Reed Richards, the ultimate villain, Lex Luthor, fuck that guy, Gail Simone as Reed Richards, Excalibur was excellent, X-Men, the Claremont era, it will get better, Krakatoa, X-Men ’97, swept away by it, freak out about how good it is, what’s this flag, Doctor Doom’s flag, right beside Ruritania, the Black Panther country flag, Wakanda flag, Jack Flag, his H. Rider Haggard, The Savage Land, Pellucidar, a standard, reptile lesbians, the flag of the mayhars, a female symbol eating a male symbol, oh Burroughs, dum dum banquet, did you know that dum dum is not as dumb as it sounds, her Tarzan Red Sonja cross over, made Miriam an arab, dark skinned, a little bit breezy, Watchmen, cartoon?, The Boys, Garth Ennis being Garth Ennis, meta commentary on the United States in 2024, very appropriately, the cold war, Iron Man, out of Vietnam into Afghanistan, race relations in America, Lovecraft Country, too American, lynch murder victim, too obscure, Will’s Watchmen take, little prose things, too ambitious with those, that giant Jerusalem novel, very ethical man, a spectacle, Jack Snyder, V For Vendetta, I watch Bob’s Burgers every day, classmate’s house, openly admitting, the Comedian rapes Silk Spectre, Alan Moore loves rape in his work, not the way George Bush loves torture, the comic opened on that page, probably hot, Silk Spectre costume, looks like The Comedian today, categorical error, another brand, The Sound And The Fury by William Falkner, Quentin Compson, make more Watchmen media, continuation comics and prequel comics, The Authority, Bob’s Burgers instead of Archer?, The Simpsons, American sitcom in cartoon form, reseasoning of Futurama, this is the funniest show ever, same guy as The Venture Bros., Johnny Quest style, character based jokes, a rip off Roger Moore ski-chalet James Bond parody, making fun with everything to do with James Bond, his mom is his boos, literary references, James Bond plots redone, Dreamland, a space season, a redo of Tales Of The Gold Monkey, delightfully funny, cringey, change my ways, cartoons as a kid, Avatar: The Last Airbender, a place not very good emotionally or intellectually, nostalgic, direct reboot, all on YouTube, Disenchanted, the fantasy version of Futurama, oldest friend, overthrow her, that cartoon, full of science fiction, Mars Express (2023) is very good, best science fiction movie of the 21st century, those two vaping Frenchmen, going to ruin our Hugo!, such a powerful parliamentarian, gender swap Conan movie from France, potentially interesting, Karl Edgar Wagner documentary, best related work, stupid girl with a stupid hat on youtube, my little pony, our hero in Bali, Damien G. Walter, a youtube video about the Culture novels, interacted, bought it, bestowed to him, science fiction is really a genre, The Acolyte is good Star Wars, fake Tolkien, House Of The Dragon, same names, Rings Of Power, redo The Lord Of The Rings as a TV show, money in them there hills, Harry Potter, its their Star Wars, you can’t cancel people, completely unhinged, J.K. Rowling’s mystery series, how do we know the shooter isn’t trans?, people who change their sex, whole personality, you can’t trust Pamphlets, sounds like parody, puberty blockers, from 2069, English = mental illness, entire time line, trans people, trans people, trans people, obsessed with trans people, trans exclusionary feminist, go off the deep end, focused on children, a strategic move, Gaza, Gaza, she has things to be wrong about, a mania, people abusing children, women being erased, transphobic, bathrooms or changing rooms, big debate everywhere, top surgery and bottom surgery, unrecoverable, not done on minors, intersex is such a small percentage of the population, assigned male, constant operations, fake vagina, recognizing non-binary people, UK laws, a tumor in her breast, drugs to suppress, what these drugs do, nasty side-effects, birth control pills to teen girls, BC it is paid for, not a consenting adult, very hush hush, you can’t do stories on it, it is also encouraged, hormone therapy age 14, surgeries under 18, very sensitive, despite the affirmation, people who’ve had surgeries and regretted it, ice dancing or swimming, intermural sports, cross dressing men, competitive sports, a runner or a swimmer who is average as a male and is extraordinary as a female, a minority issue, is the world going to end, ribbons or medals, vigorous exercise, imagine you buy into it, men are faster at every one of these sports, there’s no sport that women are better at than men, men have an advantage, they thought they were competing with women, a lot of people aren’t getting surgeries, estrogen, grassroots anger, being good at sports gets you into universities, political consequences, to get jobs, high ranked military officials, green party member, a female quota, the far right, aristocratic family, just weird, Cora hates the Greens, making COVID vaccinations mandatory, side effects, killed a lot of people, a lot of strokes, animals and babies, enjoying learning about German politics, map German politics, Social Democratic Party, like the Labour party, Christian Democratic Party, stuck in the 1980s/1990s, Liberal Democrats, libertarians, higher earning people, traditional working class, pro-peace, disarmament, environmental issues, sworn in wearing sneakers, late hippie types, pro-gay rights, pro-feminism, climate climate climate, climate change, of course I have a bicycle, terrible warmongers, fucking terrible, actually declared war on Russia, completely incompetent, not someone who should be in office, if you like the Greens for that, the Balkan wars, the first time NATO did a genocide, liquid petroleum gas terminals in coastal waters, somebody blew it up, never ever forgive Biden, lost Cora’s support, the extreme parties, a populist who doesn’t like trans people, old style communist, a left wing populist, fear of immigration, refugees, Ukranians, Canada takes some too, cherry picks, after WWII, they’re in charge now (grandchildren), Sahra Wagenknecht, a little bit provocative, what a monster, please echo the official line, Putin bad, Putin killer, her party was called the Left, named the party after herself, anti-COVID measures, not horrible, a good bulwark against the far right, an anti-fascist, Will doesn’t believe in borders, starve in the street, housing crisis, Syrians and Iraqis, borders exist, the welfare state, create fewer refugees, quit NATO, quit accepting refugees from American wars, a weird interaction with Eric [S. Rabkin], Switzerland, they don’t accept refugees, they’ll take your money, they don’t want to be invaded, we have resources and ports, aggressively neutral, you can’t control domestic activity in other countries, practical solution, totally infiltrated, Cora is not the average German voter, a regional party for East Germans, Party of Democratic Socialism, bananas and coffee, embittered, Social Democratic Party, left wing members formed their own party, W.A.S.S., Will read his book, disillusioned trade unionists, wikipedia entry, kidnapped by aliens, left wing, far left, right wing, combination of stances, the fucked up dynamic, left wing right wing, money grubbing and doing as I’m told, conservative, populist, Greek Communist Party, very firm, the correct position to have, protesting against austerity, the left is prone to splitting, the Labour party of Britain, welfare payment, fell through all of the cracks, self-employed people, all parasites, not leave this point on the floor, a billionaire who wrote some books, a billionaire who was born into wealth, insufferable fucks, too many long fantasy novels, having loud opinions in public, Stephen King has opinions, his best bud Trump, in a bank account?, invested, very likely, she has people to take care of that, wealthy actors, Tom Cruise, what harm has he done with his wealth, not-likeable, harming, danger to democracy, sucked into their world of Scientology, extraordinary weird people, YA author pissed of J.K. got her money, it was organic success, evidence please, evidence, piracy isn’t the proper thing to do, people are cancelable, you can delete them, Julian Assange was canceled, let’s cancel J.R.R. Tolkien for something, unprincipled, didn’t like Dune, a class act, Donald A. Wollheim, making Tolkien a success, pirate hero, bloated fantasy series, Terry Brooks, a retweet, public affirmation, roof with a rifle, The Rag Thing, a slatternly slattern, Mimic, The Unfinished City, only god can finish things, Clark Ashton Smith, Scott Miller, Kofi app, $3.60, good Christian coffee, only done 5 hours.

Posted by Jesse Willis