The summer of 2020 saw perhaps the largest collective uprising in the United States. The uprising, sparked by the cold-blooded murder of George Floyd, catapulted an important question into the public imaginary: is modern day policing...reformable? Or do we need to move beyond it entirely? Most of the thousands of people who poured out into the streets last summer understood that the murder of George Floyd was not just an isolated incident — not just the actions of a single bad apple. They understood that the entire institution of policing was responsible, that despite the years of reform, police continue to kill about a thousand people every year, they continue to terrorize Black, Brown, and poor communities, and they do what they do, for the most part, with zero accountability. For the first time since this institution was actually created, people, in very large numbers, were saying, "No. We're done with reform. It's not a few bad apples — the entire barrel is rotten." In this episode of Upstream, we explore the current establishment backlash against the abolish/defund movement, and ask the questions: what does more cops on our streets actually mean? Does more police and more police funding actually lead to safer communities? How about reforms — do they actually lead to better policing? What's happening with the defund or abolish movement, which seemed so unstoppable just a year ago? We not only examine these questions, but go further to ask: what is the history and function of policing? How is it inextricably intertwined with racism and capitalism? Whose interests do the police really serve? Is it even possible to reform this institution? And if not, what should take its place? And How can we bring about safer and better resourced communities — for everyone? Featuring: Cat Brooks– Co-founder of the Anti Police-Terror Project in Oakland, Executive Director of the Justice Teams Network, and co-host of Upfront on KPFA Alex Vitale – Professor of sociology, coordinator of the Policing and Social Justice Project at Brooklyn College, and author of The End of Policing published by Verso Books Kay Gabriel – Teacher and organizer with the #DefundNYPD campaign D'atra Jackson – National Director of BYP 100 John – Part of the Working Class History Project Sen. Sydney Kamlager- State Senator for California's 30th Senate District ​​ Music by: ​ Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Chris Zabriskie, Do Make Say Think Tristeza Thank you to Phil Wrigglesworth for the cover art. Upstream theme music was composed by Robert. This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.