Durning the month of December, we're revisiting some of our favorite, most informative shows. This is a rebroadcast of episodes 256 and 257 which we dubbed "The Mike & Carmine Show" - enjoy! Stacy speaks with Mike Keiley, the Director of Adoption Centers and Programs at the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (MSPCA), and Carmine DiCenso, Executive Director of the Dakin Humane Society in Leverett & Springfield MA in this first part of "The Mike & Carmine Show." You can check out Mike's first visit to Community Cats Podcast in 2016 in Episode 9 Both Mike & Carmine have been in the animal welfare field as long as Stacy has, and the two of them speak together regularly at conferences and programs. Both recognized as leaders and innovators, they discuss many topics with Stacy in this episode, including the trends and changes they have seen with community cats over the years. When Mike started in animal welfare, there was an overwhelming number of cats. In general, people felt that they were simply dealing with an unwinnable situation, with no room for strategy. In the last five years, however, the MSPCA has formulated strategies for their adoption program, their targeted spay/neuter programs, and for dealing with different populations of cats in different ways. "We are now at the point," Mike tells us, "where, largely, in New England, we are not dealing with an overpopulation of cats any longer." — which is something he would not have imagined when he first started in the field. Carmine's experience has been fairly similar to Mike's, but he adds some words of wisdom to folks who feel they will never be able to get to where New England is, telling us that it's good to start to look at trends in numbers. Once you do, you'll start to see declines and patterns that will help things not seem so bleak. To the people who say that there are pockets of New England where there are still overpopulation issues and people are still overwhelmed, Carmine would challenge them by asking whether what your organization is experiencing is truly overpopulation and being overwhelmed — or whether it is a lack of ability to let go of animals in your care. Mike & Carmine go on to talk with Stacy about their community outreach programs, and how there is a big need for more low-cost services, particularly around dental care for pets. They also answer this question from Stacy: "You each have $100. You can divide it up between low-cost spay/neuter for cats, TNR, or an adoption program. How would you divide up that $100?" Listen to find out how what they say, and why both Mike & Carmine feel that animal welfare organizations are going to morph more into helping animals where they are — vs. taking them from whatever situation they are in. To learn more about Carmine DiCenso's organization and their work, visit dakinhumane.org. You can also email Carmine at cdincenso@dakinhumane.org. To learn more about Mike Keiley's organization and their work, visit mspca.org, or email Mike at mkeiley@mspca.org.