Rioting for Representation: Local Ethnic Mobilization in Democratizing Countries (Cambridge UP, 2021) examines the conditions that inflame ethnic riots after the fall of authoritarian rule as well as the factors that cause violence to subside. It examines the case of post-1998 Indonesia but it provokes reflection on the legacies of ethnic riots in post-authoritarian countries’ long-term political development.In this podcast, Risa J. Toha argues that it is not inherent ethnic or cultural differences that drive violence but the extent of political exclusion. Once institutions for political inclusion become stronger, violence dissipates. She explains institutional mechanisms that facilitate a stronger sense of political inclusion and reflects on the motivations for political elites to deescalate violence. The podcast concludes with methodological reflections on the importance of focusing on case studies in the district or municipality level, and the role of ‘small cases’ in generating ‘big ideas.’Dr Risa J. Toha is an Assistant Professor of Political Science at Yale-NUS College in Singapore.Like this interview? You may also be interested in: Adis Maksić,  Ethnic Mobilization, Violence, and the Politics of Affect: The Serb Democratic Party and the Bosnian War (Palgrave Macmillan, 2017) Roberto Carmack, Kazakhstan in World War II: Mobilization and Ethnicity in the Soviet Empire (University Press of Kansas, 2019). Nicole Curato is a Professor of Sociology in the Centre for Deliberative Democracy and Global Governance at the University of Canberra. She co-hosts the New Books in Southeast Asia Studies channel.